SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (
-   Southwest (
-   -   Phoenix Development News (3) (

plinko Feb 19, 2010 1:33 AM


Originally Posted by PhxPavilion (Post 4706863)
It takes a lot of energy to generate hydrogen. Fuel cells are great as mobile power sources but they aren't a good alternative energy source.

That is ENTIRELY wrong. In the Western US where there is an abundance of natural gas, that is how they are fed (the natural gas is coverted to hydrogen and the off-gassing is used in other ways). Fuel cells are becoming very common in all sorts of places that require large energy use (industrial plants, community pools, large office buildings) and recently they've even become small and efficient enough for larger homes with large energy loads (the extra generated heat is then used to heat the pool).

In fact fuel cells are far more efficient power sources for buildings than they are vs. mobile uses (cars, etc).

Don B. Feb 19, 2010 2:47 AM

With respect to landowner liability in Arizona:

This is actually one of the areas where I think Arizona nails it perfectly. More states should follow our lead. The issue revolves around the duty of the landowner (same as property and homeowner for the purposes of this point).

1. The highest duty is owed to business invitees. This includes the duty to warn and protect of known hazards (actual notice), and hazards that should have been known through the ordinary course of business (constructive notice). There is no liability in any case for unknown hazards, therefore, in order to "have a case," the injured party has the burden of proving that the defendant knew of the dangerous condition prior to the injury. This is called actual notice, but is sometimes referred to as prior notice. Generally, with no notice, there is no case, and the plaintiff's lawsuit would not survive a motion for summary judgment. There is a theory for constructive notice but that is almost impossible to meet.*

2. The middle duty is owed to employees and people with implied or constructive permission to be on your property. This includes the duty to warn of known hazards. However, employees covered by the worker's comp laws in Arizona do not have liability to employees injured on the job or in the course and scope of their employment, so this is really quite limited. In practice, this more or less merges with (1) above. If you can prove prior notice, you probably can prevail in a lawsuit.

3. The lowest duty is owed to trespassers. This is the best one of all - basically you are immune from suit if a trespasser is injured on your property. The only two exceptions arise if a) you set a trap for someone - even a thief; and b) if the attractive nuisance doctrine applies. Attractive nuisance only applies to children who are not old enough to properly appreciate the risk (this is tangentially related to the concept of the assumption of the risk, which I discuss below) and are attracted onto your property by something like a trampoline or unfenced swimming pool.

Assumption of the risk (AotR) is a legal defense that can be a complete bar to recovery, meaning the plaintiff gets nothing. Basically, if you are able to appreciate the risk and engage in said activity anyway, you cannot recover for your stupidity. This applies to every single injury claim in Arizona. This is how we can have skate parks in Arizona, for example, because even smaller children can appreciate the risk a skateboard on a 45 degree concrete slope presents. The standard is measured by what a reasonable person, of similar age and mental status, in a similar conditions would do. This means if you, as an adult, climb an object and fall, no matter whether you were a guest or a trespasser, you won't be able to sue anyone for your injuries. AotR is a beautiful thing and keeps people honest. It manifests itself in a specific jury instruction which the defense will have the judge read to the jury in a civil action (assuming the plaintiff somehow, miraculously, survived a motion for summary judgment). The instruction usually reads as follows:

"If you, the jury, reasonably find that the plaintiff could appreciate the risk of the activity that resulted in the injury, and voluntarily engaged in said activity, then you must award the plaintiff zero for their injuries. Do not be swayed by sympathy for the plaintiff's plight; as a society, we do not wish to reward people for being stupid or reckless."

*Do not be swayed by these varying levels of duty. Regardless, juries in Arizona tend to be very conservative. They don't like people who sue for injuries and as a result, the plaintiff's personal injury attorney has an uphill battle to fight from the very beginning. For example, even under the highest duty as set forth in (1) above, it is still next to impossible to win these cases at trial. Statistically, according to the trial reporters in Arizona, plaintiffs lose about 70% of all slip and fall, or premises liability cases, and about 60% of motor vehicle collision cases. Proving actual notice can be very difficult. Constructive notice (the "should have known" argument) is even tougher. Plaintiffs only prevail in about 5% of constructive notice cases.

So, knowing this, I'm not sure where a jury would hose a landowner who simply planted some trees and kept the lot watered. It would be a very difficult case to win in Arizona, and that's generally how it should be.


HooverDam Feb 19, 2010 4:44 AM

^Sweet sounds good, thanks for the knowledge. Though know Im kinda annoyed we haven't been requiring the dirt lot owners to do something with their land already.

HX_Guy Feb 19, 2010 5:56 AM

Hmm...I had no idea...


Restaurant/bar in Sheraton Phoenix Downtown Hotel lures hip crowd

8 comments by Megan Finnerty - Feb. 19, 2010 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

It's not curious that a downtown bar with walls of floor-to-ceiling windows, organic cocktail ingredients and DJs with cult followings is the newest hotspot for hipsters in Phoenix.

But fashionistas are repeating the name of the bar into their cellphones to confused compatriots - "Yes, at that hotel. Yes, at the Sheraton." Because the District Kitchen and Wine Bar is in a hotel that belongs to one of the world's largest corporate chains.

But by putting local artists on the walls, local DJs on the turntables and local ingredients on the bar and kitchen menus, the Sheraton Phoenix Downtown Hotel at Third and Van Buren streets has become a destination for Friday night dancers and drinkers. And it's become the flagship for the new direction of Sheraton hotels and resorts, according to Hoyt Harper, senior vice president of brand management.

Phoenix's Sheraton, completed in September 2008, is the first property to be part of the $6 billion revitalization of the Sheraton brand worldwide. Based on consumer research, the White Plains, N.Y.-based company, which has 400 properties in more than 70 countries, is remaking itself as a destination-specific chain, where color palettes, construction materials, menu ingredients and promotions are all focused on creating a hyperlocal experience for guests.

"It's using stone and wood that's indigenous to the region and fabrics that will be familiar to the people in the community," Harper said. "The restaurants and the menus and the design of the outlets should reflect what's relevant to the community. In Phoenix, it's a natural gathering place in the heart of the city. So making it relevant in Phoenix meant that it was a destination on a Friday night."

Catering to hipsters

It's 9:30 p.m., and in the oval-shaped lounge off District's main bar, about 25 women and men shift in their low seats for better views of the two heroically fit men sweating and dancing in the center of the room. Wearing T-shirts and sneakers, Robert "Lyric" Coleman, 27, and David Turner, 25, both of Phoenix, blend Brazilian capoeira, hip-hop and "Matrix"-style moves in the house dance routines they invent on most Fridays that DJ Senbad is on the decks.

"At first, I was like, 'Dude, it's at a hotel,' but Senbad is a great DJ, so I knew he's going to play great stuff. . . . And I knew he wouldn't be in a lame spot," Coleman said.

At the bar, this is the fourth time Megan Silvertooth, 29, has been to see her friend Senbad.

"It's fun because you get a whole mix - yuppies, hipsters, business people - all mixed together," she said. "And the dancing gets really crazy."

This is the dream of District general manager Heinrich Stasiuk, who hired Senbad and put together the twentysomething-friendly reverse happy hour of $3 draft beers and $4 cocktails. He also partnered with the Sheraton's chefs to bring fresh produce and herbs from the hotel's garden into his bar, enabling him to serve new trendy muddled cocktails.

Local experience

Beyond the bar, the Sheraton also is keeping it local.

• In a foyer hallway, art from the nearby Exposed Studio & Gallery cycles through periodically and there are more than 100 locally made pieces throughout the hotel.

• In the lobby, the Link Cafe may serve Starbucks, but this location chooses how to serve it and what other foods to serve it with.

• On the fourth-floor deck, there's a 120-square-foot seasonal garden planted with things like mint, okra and chiles. Most additional produce comes from Singh Farms, an organic grower in Scottsdale. District also returns compostable items to Singh Farms.

• In the fitness center, Sheraton partnered with Phoenix-based Athletes' Performance, an elite training company, to create Core Performance. This series of workouts, nutrition tips and recommendations for recovery is posted in the gyms and is available through Sheraton's Web site.

Vicelord John Feb 19, 2010 6:35 AM

Had no idea that the hipsters were invading with their shitty music and pseudo gay attitude?

combusean Feb 19, 2010 11:21 AM

Alright I was about to move the last two pages into the Coffee Talk thread but just said fuck it.

More talk about places opening up and whatnot. All the other stuff goes where it goes. :)


Originally Posted by Vicelord John (Post 4706309)
does anyone know the reason why these streets go at an angle as opposed to following the grid?

Was there originally something there or were they planning to build something later that never happened?

It went along the alignment of an old filled in canal. If you stare long enough at google maps at the right zoom level you eventually start to see all sorts of nifty physiological features of Phoenix.

glynnjamin Feb 19, 2010 2:37 PM

I know John will disagree but I love the District and absolutely love anything that Chef Nathan puts out. The guy makes some amazing food. I'm not real big on going during the DJ nights but it's a great after work spot and the happy hour can't be beat.

gymratmanaz Feb 19, 2010 3:13 PM

I liked it a lot when I went.

Vicelord John Feb 19, 2010 5:08 PM

I like district. You know that. I just dont like hipsters.

CANUC Feb 19, 2010 11:35 PM

^Um, what the hell is a "hipster"?

combusean Feb 20, 2010 10:43 AM

Having reread the article and found both the dancers' facebooks, I'd say it's rather ungay. Anything involving dancing at a gay bar lacks any artistic merit whatsoever. I wish gay bars would have a scene like this...anything to break the onslaught of bad techno and top 40 played at every joint in the city.

What's even weirder about this taking place in the Sheraton, is that the Sheraton is city owned.

This article in the new times summed up my suspicion well back when they bandied about the whole idea to begin with.


There is something upside downtown about the convention hotel discussion -- and it is not just the ludicrous idea that the city should leap into a business professionals are abandoning because they can't make money at it.

Let's be plain. I don't like tourists. Do tourists even like themselves? But downtown convention hotels exist to like tourists. Aren't these very hotels the bedrock of the tourism industry? Hasn't the entire tourism-industrial complex evolved because we've been informed that putting tourists into hotels is good for the economy? And if that economy is so distorted that the hotel chains have given up, ought we not listen?

Following one of the interviews inside the Civic Center, I walked across the street to the Hyatt's Network restaurant. It was half full of conventioneers getting lunch. The menu, like every menu for six square blocks, offered burgers and wings. This is why tourists are so disagreeable. They dumb down the restaurants and the streetscape.

The waitress brought me a Cobb salad dominated by the palest yellow iceberg lettuce. Only a tourist would eat such fare. I paid my bill and left.
Who freaking knew that Phoenix could pull this off? The whole article is worth a read in modern context. Maybe I'm an old man but seven years just wasn't that long ago and it's almost like ... things have changed.

He was right about the convention center. We only doubled attendance for the first full year of operation, not tripled as the studies promised.

Leo the Dog Feb 20, 2010 11:58 AM

A lot of pedestrian activity in DT the past couple of days. Too bad 90% of them are not Phoenicians enjoying the afternoon/evening in their own city.

Locofresh55 Feb 20, 2010 11:29 PM


Originally Posted by CANUC (Post 4708385)
^Um, what the hell is a "hipster"?

It can't be any worse than the Jersey Shore cast right? Fist pump!!!:koko:

Vicelord John Feb 20, 2010 11:31 PM

hipster = straight homosexual. Thats the best I can describe it.

HooverDam Feb 21, 2010 12:40 AM


Originally Posted by Vicelord John (Post 4709836)
hipster = straight homosexual. Thats the best I can describe it.

No no thats a metrosexual. Hipsters are people who can basically be defined by being too cool for school. They listen to terrible music, don't dance, wear t-shirts 2 to 3 sizes too small, have mussy haircuts, often don't look you in the eye when you talk, etc.

Vicelord John Feb 21, 2010 12:44 AM

Listens to bands that you have never heard of. Has hairstyle that can only be described as "complicated." (Most likely achieved by a minimum of one week not washing it.) Probably tattooed. Maybe gay. Definitely cooler than you. Reads Black Book, Nylon, and the Styles section of the New York Times. Drinks Pabst Blue Ribbon. Often. Complains. Always denies being a hipster. Hates the word. Probably living off parents money - and spends a great deal of it to look like they don't have any. Has friends and/or self cut hair. Dyes it frequently (black, white-blonde, etc. and until scalp bleeds). Has a closet full of clothing but usually wears same three things OVER AND OVER (most likely very tight black pants, scarf, and ironic tee-shirt). Chips off nail polish artfully after $50 manicure. Sleeps with everyone and talks about it at great volume in crowded coffee shops. Addicted to coffee, cigarettes (Parliaments, Kamel Reds, Lucky Strikes, etc.), and possibly cocaine. Claims to be in a band. Rehearsals consist of choosing outfits for next show and drinking PBR. Always on the list. Majors or majored in art, writing, or queer studies. Name-drops. May go by "Penny Lane," "Eleanor Rigby," etc. when drunk. On PBR. Which is usually.

HX_Guy Feb 21, 2010 12:48 AM

Google tells us that hipsters =

I can't stand the look of the 2nd guy (in the center)...worst look ever! Skinny jeans on guys are horrible, I don't care how in fashion they would ever get, I wouldn't be caught dead in them.

Vicelord John Feb 21, 2010 12:50 AM

I've been calling them "First Fridays."

As in, I hate those fucking first fridays douches.

RTD Feb 21, 2010 2:46 AM

Speaking of music, and I don't mean to hijack this thread, but can anyone suggest a good place to go for drinks and listen to live music of any sorts? I'm in town until Wednesday and would love to find a place to drink, relax, listen to music and maybe sneak a peak at some nice eye candy of the female persuasion? :)

If there is a more appropriate thread for this question, feel free to post any replies there.


Vicelord John Feb 21, 2010 2:48 AM

Voce, Kazimierz, Bobby's, Estate House, Char's, Rhythym Room, and Blue Martini are all places full of hot sluts and have live music.

If you're older than 40, go to Voce, Bobby's, or Estate House. If you are looking for a dive (not attractive women) go to Char's or Rhytym Room. If you're looking for 20-40's crowd, go to Blue Martini or Kazimierz.

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:19 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.