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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

Remy_Bork Dec 8, 2010 11:53 PM

In the 90s they ripped out over a mile of the green line in Woodlawn with the bizarre idea that it would help the area's development. It actually killed a lot of the ridership on the line as a whole because it made transfers much more difficult. As anyone who's been around there can see, it's been less than a success.

Something that also makes a big difference in ridership is that the southern portion of the red line and both outer parts of the blue line were rebuilt in highway medians in the 50s and 60s, putting them in a kind of dead zone when it comes to transit oriented development.

I've been thinking recently of ways these stations could be retrofitted a bit to make them more appealing to pedestrians. Platform screen doors could block out a lot of the wind and noise that make them so uncomfortable, as well as allow them to be heated in the winter. If some kind of enclosed hallways could be built that would allow people to walk to the stations without feeling that they're on top of a busy highways overpass that might help too.

These seem like reasonably cost effective solutions that could bring in more riders and propel some nearby development. On the blue line at least, many of those stations are more than due for an overhaul.

lawfin Dec 9, 2010 12:29 AM

^^^Wholeheartedly agree about the highway median L stops......not a solution to spur local transit use it seems....more a foreboding excercise in how not to make a system usable

pip Dec 9, 2010 5:15 AM

mid 1970's video ride on the CTA Redline from North/Clybourn to Howard. I am wondering why after Belmont the Redline train goes to the outside track where the Purple Line Express of today is.
Video Link


Brown Line Loop to Paulina
Video Link


Purple Line Evanston to Wilson and what! A CTA train faster than Metra!
Video Link


Polk to Jefferson Park Blue Line. Trains were only two cars long, wow. But on all the videos those trains sure seemed to move along well
Video Link


Part 1:
From Sox/35th Redline towards the Loop and to Ashland. it doesn't go underground?? It stays elevated much like I think the Orange Line does when approaching the Loop today. the train loops through the Loop and after Clark/Lake goes directly west where the Green Line does today.
Video Link


Part 2:
Ashland to Harlem/Lake and back to downtown.
Video Link


95th st to downtown. Again different route than today it appears
Video Link


Jackson Park/63rd st to the Loop. This line no linger exists I assume
Video Link

ardecila Dec 9, 2010 1:00 PM

Before 1993, the Green Line ran Oak Park-95th and the Red Line ran Howard-63rd/Jackson Park. They switched in 1993 after a short subway connector was built between Cermak/Chinatown and Roosevelt.

OhioGuy Dec 9, 2010 3:58 PM

An Open Letter to Gabe Klein (soon-to-be former director of the DC Department of Transportation)

Elevating Chicago
Ted Rosenbaum on 12.08.10 at 9:59 PM


Quote:

You may not have heard, but we're gonna have a new Mayor here next year. You joined Mayor Fenty's staff in Washington halfway through his term and accomplished a ton. Imagine getting in at the start of a new mayor's term (our first new Mayor in over 2 decades!) and having nearly free reign, since the new Mayor's priorities will likely be on reducing crime and improving the school system.

Although actual policy statements have been rare thus far in the campaign, everyone agrees that the Mayor's office needs to become more open. You helped bring DDOT into the 21st century by actually establishing a twitter presence, opening data sets to the public, and more--CDOT needs that kind of reform badly.

You can be the first great Transportation Commissioner here since... well, it's been a damn long time. We've had repeated turnover in the job in recent years as Mayor Daley tires of each new placeholder. While they've all mostly moved the ball forward on incremental reforms, it's only been at the whim of a Mayor whose attention is obviously divided. So while we have a bike plan (which DC's now almost dwarfs when you consider the disparity in size between the cities themselves), and a Central Area Action Plan, and even a few Streetscape plans, no one has laid out the grand vision that Chicago needs to become a city that works for everyone--not just drivers--once again.

VivaLFuego Dec 9, 2010 4:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip (Post 5086372)
mid 1970's video ride on the CTA Redline from North/Clybourn to Howard. I am wondering why after Belmont the Redline train goes to the outside track where the Purple Line Express of today is.

Thanks for posting these.

Addison used to be a side-platform station before being rebuilt as an island platform int he 1990s --- so North-South B trains would switch the outside tracks to serve Addison, then switch back to the inner tracks. This was the result of how the Northwestern Elevated was first built and operated (inner express tracks, outer local tracks), and Addison was a "local" stop.

Looks like there was also some track or station work farther up the North Main when the video was shot, too.

Busy Bee Dec 9, 2010 5:11 PM

edit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Busy Bee Dec 9, 2010 5:13 PM

Great idea courting Gabe Klein for the CDOT or CTA - he's worked wonders in DC. He's a real visionary in trasnport and thoroughly understands urbanism - something that I'm not sure can be said about any local transport agency. He's really on par with leadership you'd find in progressive European cities and is exactly who I'd like to see at the helm in Chicago.

emathias Dec 9, 2010 6:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawfin (Post 5085890)
...
And a line that too bad was destroyed....would be nice if they could rebuild it and tie it in with a new major north - south line
**Humbolt Park line image**

Given that development is spreading west from wicker park into humbolt this line would be useful today

I agree. I don't blame the Bloomingdale Trail group, but I also think they're wrong and that the embankment there shouldn't be turned into a park.

If I were king of the world (or Chicago transit anyway), what I'd propose is creating a McCormick Place-Streeterville subway that then followed Clark to Armitage, then west and jogging back south to meet the Bloomingdale embankment. If built in conjunction with the proposed Circle Line subway near Ashland, it would greatly enhance transportation between Humbolt Park and Lincoln Park and everything in between.

Below is a map where the new yellowish markings are how I'd use the Bloomingdale ROW. The Orange Markings are other officially proposed (or at least mentioned in official documents) extensions or lines.

Map by CTA. Edits by myself.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5248/...7421e0c93e.jpg

Tex17 Dec 9, 2010 9:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawfin (Post 5085844)
Absolutely Not! Especially given that this parcel is about 1000 feet from a subway stop (less than 5 minute walk) on the Red line and within about a 10 minute walk if 2 more L stops on the Brown line. Additionally there has been talk of a new Brown line stop at / near Division which would be literally about 160 feet away from this parcel.


So to your point that better too much parking...absolutely not. I do not know if your name portends from whence you have come but urbanity in Chicago is decidedly different in Chicago than in Texas....and in a parcel such as this one we do not need to coddle the auto as it has perhaps some of the best transit connectivity outside Manhattan!

Well, sure you can take the public transportation. It just seems to me that you can still choose to take whether or not there's a place to park. (For instance, you might take the Red Line to your office for work, but then take your car to go grocery shopping or visit your friend in Lawndale, before picking up your grandmother at the nursing home to take her to her salon appointment or something.)
It you don't have a place to park your car, you're effectively forced to take public transportation, whether it suits your particular needs at the time or not.

Mr Downtown Dec 9, 2010 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 5086881)
the new yellowish markings are how I'd use the Bloomingdale ROW.

Except the unused part ends at Pacific Junction (1800N/3800W). West of there it's an active Metra line.

emathias Dec 9, 2010 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 5087235)
Except the unused part ends at Pacific Junction (1800N/3800W). West of there it's an active Metra line.

I actually intended to end the line sooner, but accidentally drew it too far.

Nonetheless, another way to use that would be to electrify that Metra Line and run the Metra Electric lines north through a subway to Streeterville and along the same alignment. Could be a northern extension of Mike Payne's Gray Line proposal.

nomarandlee Dec 10, 2010 3:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remy_Bork (Post 5085944)
I've been thinking recently of ways these stations could be retrofitted a bit to make them more appealing to pedestrians. Platform screen doors could block out a lot of the wind and noise that make them so uncomfortable, as well as allow them to be heated in the winter. If some kind of enclosed hallways could be built that would allow people to walk to the stations without feeling that they're on top of a busy highways overpass that might help too.

These seem like reasonably cost effective solutions that could bring in more riders and propel some nearby development. On the blue line at least, many of those stations are more than due for an overhaul.

I've thought of that as well. It would be nice to see them put up some windbreaker panels opposite that of the platforms in order to break up the loud noise winds that invade the platforms. The only downside of that I presume is the difficulty in keeping the panels clean of the accumulated exhaust. Also in the summer the winds help keep the platforms a bit cooler and if you blocked the outside air they could become sweltering in the summer. It would be a fair trade off though I think.

lawfin Dec 10, 2010 5:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 5086881)

I like it....just wondering the orange dotted line are official proposals....I see the circle line dots and the ford city dots and mid-city dot......what are those orange dots just west of current orange line that look like they would be traveling n-s through pilsen or so? Have not heard of that.


My one criticism is I just have a fantasy of essentially a city long subway at Western running from asbury all the way south to at least 63rd where it would tie in with a green line extension or perhaps even have that tie in and continue it south to loop into the the redline extension to 130th

emathias Dec 10, 2010 8:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawfin (Post 5088156)
...
what are those orange dots just west of current orange line that look like they would be traveling n-s through pilsen or so? Have not heard of that.

That's the Clinton Street subway, which is part of some iterations of the West Loop Transportation Center.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawfin (Post 5088156)
My one criticism is I just have a fantasy of essentially a city long subway at Western running from asbury all the way south to at least 63rd where it would tie in with a green line extension or perhaps even have that tie in and continue it south to loop into the the redline extension to 130th

Ok. Not sure how that's a criticism, though. :-)

lawfin Dec 10, 2010 8:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 5088439)
That's the Clinton Street subway, which is part of some iterations of the West Loop Transportation Center.



Ok. Not sure how that's a criticism, though. :-)

Point taken....any educated guess as to how much your plan would cost to implemented....would it be primarily subway or above grade?

I have never been able to find an estimate of how much a Western subway would cost?

ardecila Dec 11, 2010 3:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomarandlee (Post 5087998)
I've thought of that as well. It would be nice to see them put up some windbreaker panels opposite that of the platforms in order to break up the loud noise winds that invade the platforms. The only downside of that I presume is the difficulty in keeping the panels clean of the accumulated exhaust. Also in the summer the winds help keep the platforms a bit cooler and if you blocked the outside air they could become sweltering in the summer. It would be a fair trade off though I think.

You could design a system of louvers that would open in the summer and close in the winter. The mechanisms, and the glass itself, would be various forms of durable plastic to avoid rusting from the salt mist and moisture in the expressway.

Alternately, you could build a glass partition down the middle of the platform (glass for security reasons). Passengers would just stand on the leeward side of the wall from the wind until the train comes, at which point they could go through one of several portals in the wall. Next-train signs would eliminate the need to peer down the tracks.

I'm used to Cumberland, where most people wait in the stationhouse (but inside the faregates) during poor weather, and when they see the train approaching, they head down the stairs/escalator to the platform. The transparency of those stationhouses leaves that open as a possibility, unlike more closed-off stations on the elevated lines or in the subways.

emathias Dec 11, 2010 8:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawfin (Post 5088451)
Point taken....any educated guess as to how much your plan would cost to implemented....would it be primarily subway or above grade?

I don't know. Based on costs from other projects in Chicago and other cities, here are some costs that are probably at least reasonable starting points:

Clinton Street Subway: from Division to 18th Street
Approximately 3.5 miles of subway: $1.4 billion
Maybe 5 individual stations: $500 million
One long platform between Ogilvie and Union stations: $200 million
1 1/2 complex integrations with Blue Line: $300 million
TOTAL: $2.4 billion

Circle Line: Elevated connection to Orange, Subway to Red
Approximately 1.5 miles elevated (to Orange): $150 million
1 new elevated station constructed with structure: $25 million
Approximate 3 miles subway (to Red): $1.2 billion
Maybe 4 individual subway stations: $400 million
1 complex integration with Red Line: $200 million
TOTAL: $1.975 billion

Brown Line to Blue Line
Approximately 1.8 (Montrose) - 2.2 (Lawrence) miles subway: $720 million to $880 million
OR 2 miles elevated (alley just south of Lawrence): $200 million
Maybe 2 individual subway stations: $200 million
OR 2 elevated stations: $50 million
1 complex integration with Blue Line: $200 million
OR complex elevated integration: $100 million
TOTAL: $350 million to $1.28 billion

Mid-City Transitway (along Cicero)
Approximately 11.5 miles elevated/existing embankment mix: $1.1 billion
Maybe 18 elevated stations: $450 million
1 complex integration with Blue Line: $200 million
TOTAL: $1.75 billion

Bloomingdale/Streeterville/McCormick
Approximately 3.8 miles rehab embankment (Bloomingdale) + extension: $380 million
Maybe 8 embankment/elevated stations: $200 million
Approximately 5.5 miles subway: $2.2 billion
Maybe 12 subway stations: $1.2 billion
Highrise proximity/nimby extra cost: $500 million
2.5 miles at-grade: $125 million
Metra conflicts engineering fixes: $150 million
Maybe 4 at-grade/below-grade stations: $160 million
TOTAL: $4.915 billion

ALL PROJECTS HIGHEST TOTAL:
$12.32 billion

Putting this into perspective, this is less than the cost of New York's Second Ave Subway, and less than Boston's Big Dig, and about three times what LA will spend on one single extension of the Wilshire subway from downtown to UCLA. It's also less than the cost of expanding O'Hare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawfin (Post 5088451)
I have never been able to find an estimate of how much a Western subway would cost?

I've never seen a serious consideration of a subway under Western, probably mostly because most of Western is not dense enough to even come close to supporting the cost structures of subway work.

Nowhereman1280 Dec 11, 2010 5:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawfin (Post 5088451)
I have never been able to find an estimate of how much a Western subway would cost?

Way too much when you could just build elevated tracks a few blocks to the east along Ashland/Ravenswood which already has right of way for most of its length. The line I envision would beging at Howard and then jump over a block or two onto the Ravenswood Metra tracks. Follow along those with plentiful stops in Andersonville and Ravenswood. Then when you get to Lawrence, it skips over a half block or so and shares the tracks with the Brown line N/S segment allowing ample transfer stops (much like Fullerton and Belmont stops). After that it merges back up with Metra until you hit the northbranch where it would go subway to meet up with the Blue Line Divison stop. Further south it could either remain subway or reemerge near United Center and join up with the Pink Line N/S tracks. After the Pink Line turns West it would continue south and terminate after crossing the canal at the Orange Line Ashland Station. Now that would be a relatively cheap and extremely effective new line. So many awesome, undeserved, extremely dense neighborhoods would have greatly enhanced service and you would hardly have to build any new ROW.

Additionally, if you really really want a line further west a second new N/S line could be built along the already existent North Branch of the river. This would be a simple ROW for a brand new line and would require very little emminant domain. In fact one could feasibly run the tracks low enough near the river that all the existing bridges would be overpasses and the noise/unsightliness of an elevated structure would be eliminated in favor of an all "ground level" set of tracks. Such a line could potentially begin at purple line terminus in Wilmette and share a transfer with the Yellow Line at McCormick and Howard and the Brown Line at Francisco. This would serve parts of the city that are currently transit deserts. Might get some pushback from park advocates, but the river itself is fenced of from the parks along it for the vast majority of its length because its a hazardous, polluted, channel that no one really wants to get near.

VivaLFuego Dec 13, 2010 2:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 (Post 5089274)
Additionally, if you really really want a line further west a second new N/S line could be built along the already existent North Branch of the river. This would be a simple ROW for a brand new line and would require very little emminant domain. In fact one could feasibly run the tracks low enough near the river that all the existing bridges would be overpasses and the noise/unsightliness of an elevated structure would be eliminated in favor of an all "ground level" set of tracks.

Or, as long as we're dreaming here, we could do like the Germans....

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2764/...6628af19_z.jpg
Wuppertal Schwebebahn, photo mine


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