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CityBoyDoug Apr 19, 2017 12:04 AM


Originally Posted by Martin Pal (Post 7776473)
Thanks for the interesting Ruscha photos, riichkay. And I was going to walk by the Jar restaurant next time I have an appointment in that area to see that filming location for La La Land. I'd be up for one of their "Gimlet's" there...if anyone's on an expense account.

Here's a virtual Gimlet.;);):cool:

2.5 oz Gin
.5 oz Lime juice
.5 oz Simple syrup

Martin Pal Apr 19, 2017 2:44 AM


P.S.: The Jar bar uses Nolet's cucumber infused gin!

CityBoyDoug Apr 19, 2017 3:16 AM


Originally Posted by Martin Pal (Post 7777041)

P.S.: The Jar bar uses Nolet's cucumber infused gin!

I'm very old -fashioned....:D:D

HenryHuntington Apr 19, 2017 3:41 AM


Originally Posted by CityBoyDoug (Post 7777066)
I'm very old -fashioned....:D:D

I'll take (a) Manhattan! ;)

HenryHuntington Apr 19, 2017 3:46 AM


Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 7776239)
If I remember correctly, someone owes you a beer.

Not the debtor (that I remember, anyway), but I'd be proud to buy it. Our own t2 has turned out to be Super Noirisher with a potential save of two apartment buildings! I'm in awe.

ethereal_reality Apr 19, 2017 4:38 AM


Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 7775968)

ETA some satisfying news. If anyone remembers those two big, old Craftsman apartment buildings I was swooning over yesterday, the Conservancy let me know that they were unaware of the pair until they saw the post. They're hot-footing it over to W 8th & S Park View for proper photographs so the two can eventually be written up.

:previous:This is BIG news t2! You should be very proud of yourself. :)

It's probably a good idea the conservancy is rushing down there.
Just to the south from the Craftsman on the west side of Park View, there have been some recent losses.

Here's a trio of houses in 2011.

The same view in 2017 :(

and from the air [date unknown) -before the corner houses were removed.

One last look.




tovangar2 Apr 19, 2017 8:11 AM

The Engstrums and Artemesia
I'm always interested in what architects build for themselves and also, as the Engstrums have come up recently, what that family of contractors built for themselves too. I'm focusing on one house in particular.

First, some family history (this is gleaned from several sources on the net. I hope it's at least generally accurate). Frantz Otto ("Frank" or "F.O.") Engstrum was born in Stockholm in 1848, the son of a builder. He engaged in the stone cutting business there, but restless, he emigrated to America. After a short time in New York, he moved to Houston in the early 1870s, marrying Elizabeth Weatherly, originally from Alabama. The couple's three children were born in Houston: Frederick Edgar ("Fred" or "F.E."), Paul and Blanche. Although Frank's construction business was doing well, the Engstrums moved on to San Diego County in 1886 and then fetched up in Los Angeles in 1892 where Frank organized F.O. Engstrum and Co, Contractors at E 5th between Seaton and Colyston (now deep in the Arts District). They lived at 2690 Ellendale Place in West Adams.

After graduating from LAHS and the State Normal School and joining his father's firm, F.E. was married in 1901 to Californian Lydia Maulhardt, soon buying a home at 2704 Ellendale Place. Blanche married Memphian Hugh W Bryson in 1904. (Paul, in contrast to his siblings, seems to have spent his life being the subject of more than his share of scandalous headlines). The year of his marriage, Bryson bought one third of F.O. Engstrum and Co, becoming Manager, with Frank and Fred retaining the titles of President and Vice President. Bryson, it was said, was particularly skilled at marshaling and deploying the firm's large workforce at the various, and often far-flung, job sites.

By 1908 the Los Angeles Herald was lauding the firm as "the largest contractors west of Chicago". They were fabulously successful, becoming millionaires many times over. The firm ferociously defended the patent on their concrete gravity delivery system, which brought in millions on its own. As well as their famous apartment buildings, The Engstrum, the Rex Arms, The Bryson and The Rampart (they retained title to these, leasing them to managers), they built much in the Historic Core (both business blocks and hotels), many civic buildings (including notoriously opulent Engine Company No. 23), manufacturing plants and huge projects such as the City Market Buildings and the great Exhibition Hall at Exposition Park. There were also projects in San Francisco and San Diego, Nevada and Arizona. The firm was centered at their vast works at E 5th and Seaton. There were between 900 and 2,000 skilled workers on the payroll at any one time. The three men joined all the right clubs and, together with their wives, were lights of Los Angeles society.
la herald 20 dec 1915

Vacation time was spent at big "cottages" they built in East Newport Beach, but Fred wanted something closer in. By 1913 he and Lydia had three sons, Edgar, Thomas and Fred Jr, then 11, 10 and 9. After considering a seaside bluff site in Santa Monica, he picked 16 hilltop acres on Hollywood's Canyon Drive, in, what is now, The Oaks neighborhood of Los Feliz. CB DeMille built his estate in nearby Laughlin Park the same year. The Engstrum home didn't get a street number until 1938 when it was readdressed as 5771 Valley Oak Drive:
google maps

The home, "Artemesia", was designed by Frank A Brown, an in-house architect with Consolidated Home Builders. He was a vocal admirer of Greene and Greene. Although the Craftsman house is excellent in many ways, it does not get a lot of respect from critics because the interior is English Arts and Crafts, so it's a bit of a mash-up. At over 13K square feet, it is 5K square feet larger than 1908's Gamble House. Alexandre Aurèle Vermeulen laid out the grounds, mostly as forest. It was built as, and remains, the largest Craftsman house in America. The home has two master suites (the second one was for the elder Engstrums, who by then kept a house in town at 601 S Kenmore). The younger Engstrums kept a suite of rooms at the Engstrum Apartments for overnights in town.
la herald, 14 sept, 1914

One hundred and four this year, Artemesia is in close to original condition (it's never been remodeled) after restoration and updating with all new systems by the home's current owner who's been in residence 30 years. Over time, the grounds have been reduced to a bit less than two acres from the original sixteen. It's for sale.



3. The front terraces:

4. The view past one of Artemesia's iconic lanterns:

5. One of five Murphy beds made up on the sleeping porch:

6. A gable and lantern:

7. The front door:

8. The front hall:


10. The sitting room:

11. Note the Murray Harris pipe organ on the right. There are hundreds of chimes and pipes stashed throughout the house's three levels:

12. One of six Batchelder fireplaces:

13. A corner of the breakfast room:

14. One of the Master bathrooms with its sky-lit "Grecian plunge":


It would appear that the Engstrums intended Artemesia to be their long-term home, eventually filled with grandchildren.

But something happened in 1917, which I'm not quite clear about. Fred sold Artemesia, just three years after the family moved in, moving to 626 Ardmore, and disbanded F. O. Engstrum and Co, selling its assets at "rock bottom prices":
la herald, 20 jan 1917

The elder Engstrums both died in 1920, Hugh Bryson in 1922 and then Fred in 1923. He was just 49.

(Photos 2,3 & 9 from Zillow, image 4 from laist and the rest from Artemesia. Other pix at LA Curbed. FW also recommends the pix in The Architect, Oct 1915 and Los Angeles Magazine)

Martin Pal Apr 19, 2017 5:44 PM


Originally Posted by HenryHuntington (Post 7777077)

Originally Posted by CityBoyDoug (Post 7777066)
I'm very old -fashioned....:D:D

I'll take (a) Manhattan! ;)


"I'll have a frozen daiquiri!"

Diamond-X Apr 19, 2017 6:57 PM

Flyingwedge: Thanks for adding the pictures and additional information. I believe if we found a blurry picture of a common brick from 1800's Los Angeles this group
could pinpoint it's exact location, origin and current disposition.


Originally Posted by Flyingwedge (Post 7773929)
Thanks for the info and the interesting photo Diamond-X.

Here's a c. 1900-05 shot looking at the front of the Hooker home:

CHS-1640 @ USCDL

I think behind the railing with the potted plants is the porch where she is playing her guitar in your photo:

CHS-1640 close-up

This is a nice look at 325 W. Adams, apparently from the SW corner of Adams and Hope:

SCWHR-P-002.2-1523R at Seaver Center

There is a building permit dated August 22, 1925 (probably inspired by the June 29, 1925, earthquake in Santa Barbara)
that states, "to anticipate any earthquake damage, removing big brick chimneys from 12 inches above roof line up &
substituting double walled steel and plaster tops."

In this snip from the 1907 Sanborn Map, 325 W. Adams is in the lower left corner, just east of the famous Palm Drive.
The Hooker home's back yard is surrounded by six- and seven-foot-high brick walls:

ProQuest via LAPL

HossC Apr 19, 2017 7:00 PM

Another single image from Julius Shulman today. It's "Job 542: Matcham and Heitschmidt, Llords and Elwood, 1949".

Getty Research Institute

Although there's no location given, the company had a presence in Los Angeles, but the only store listed in the CDs is at 8847 Beverly Boulevard, and the number to the right of the door is 13038. Does anyone recognize it?

The "Unusual Groceries" description intrigued me. Unfortunately, I can't make out any of the products on this postcard. The source dates it as circa 1930–1945, and gives the location as Los Angeles - if only the reverse was available.

tovangar2 Apr 19, 2017 7:55 PM


I don't know where the shop was, but the Llords and Elwood Winery (established 1955) is listed up in Napa.

HossC Apr 19, 2017 10:27 PM


Thanks, tovangar2.

I got a PM from Martin Pal suggesting that the Llords and Elwood store could've been at 13038 San Vicente Boulevard, even though the current building is completely different. I looked at the building records, and found Mike Elwood's name on the 1937 building permit. Page 2 says that the new store would be selling only packaged and bottled goods.
Online Building Records

There's also a 1948 BP for the sign seen in the Shulman photo.
Online Building Records

The demo permit was only issued in 2013, so I checked out the 2011 GSV image. There had been some modifications, but the building was still recognizable.

To save scrolling back, here's the original image again. Note how the hairdressers in the Shulman image was part of the same building, but made to look different.
Getty Research Institute

tovangar2 Apr 19, 2017 11:28 PM


That's for sure the same building. The fenestration has changed, but otherwise it's all there (minus the sign)

But, of course, gone now anyway

ethereal_reality Apr 20, 2017 4:28 AM

While driving around in the google-mobile this past weekend I happened upon this interesting building on the corner of Maple Avenue and 24th Street.


Could this be an old fire station?


I thought I'd try and find out:

Is the building a stripped down version of the station below?


Flyingwedge Apr 20, 2017 4:33 AM

More Artemesia

Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 7777196)

Thanks for your informative and colorful post on Artemesia, t2.

LAPL says this photo shows the Music Room in 1971, but it looks like the Sitting/Living Room:

00019610 @ LAPL

Here is the link to the October 1915 The Architect, where there are more photos of Artemesia.

Los Angeles Magazine ran an article on Artemesia in March 2013.

ethereal_reality Apr 20, 2017 4:39 AM

Thanks for the additional photographs Flyingwedge.


Originally Posted by tovangar2

Excellent post on the Artemesia post t2. (I meant to tell you earlier)


Originally Posted by "tovangar2'

But something happened in 1917, which I'm not quite clear about. Fred sold Artemesia, just three years after the family moved in, and disbanded
F. O. Engstrum and Co, selling its assets at "rock bottom prices":

MUST find out this intriguing mystery t2. ;)

ethereal_reality Apr 20, 2017 5:20 AM

Have we seen this colorful snapshot of the Orpheum Theater?

The date is 1961.

also note the optometrist Dr. Barry B -something- .....over on the right -->


I decided to include this photograph of the snack bar at the Orpheum. [undated]

Believe it or not, this snack bar is outside facing Broadway. Does anyone remember this?

I'm pretty sure there was one inside as well, right?


Flyingwedge Apr 20, 2017 5:39 AM

328 E. 24th Street

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 7778465)
While driving around in the google-mobile this past weekend I happened upon this interesting building on the corner of Maple Avenue and 24th Street.

Could this be an old fire station?

I thought I'd try and find out:

Is the building a stripped down version of the station below?


Wow, good eye e_r!

It has to be the same building. lists Engine Co. No. 7 at 328 E. 24th St. from 1899-1949, but in a photo caption
of your building also appears to show the years as 1899-1921.

Maybe it closed in 1921 and reopened in late 1923 or early 1924 after a renovation; this 9/26/23 BP says the building is a
vacant old fire house, but it will be used as a fire house after the projecting windows are removed and the other work done:


There is also a 9/25/23 BP for a three-room "toolhouse and cookshack" at the same address for the fire department.

ethereal_reality Apr 20, 2017 5:56 AM

:previous: Thanks so much Flyingwedge. I thought I was going crazy.

What caught my eye about this postcard is what's written on the front.

"I Sleep Here At Nights." Winter in East Lake Park, Los Angeles

I can't tell what's written on the sidewalk.

reverse / with 1910 postmark

Towards the beginning he says something about "balls for me they hurt my liver."

He also mentions he's in line for a job. (I can't decipher what kind) "van d _ _ _ _ _" something/

He's laid up with a sprained ankle from a spill off his motorcycle.
-which probably explains his homelessness. :(



i just realized it says "vaudeville" job!

Tourmaline Apr 20, 2017 2:03 PM


Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 7778518) Winter in East Lake Park, Los Angeles

I can't tell what's written on the sidewalk.

It appears the author is comparing the post card photo to "Bennett Park", Charlotte, Michigan. "No B. Park about this."

Guess this is where the post card recipient received mail (First Nat'l Bank). Also, circa 1910

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