Who cares about walking a block between two trains? That seems like a red herring to me. The problem is that there will be two trains to transfer between in the first place. That, and much longer headways on the express vs the Blue Line, resulting in the full trip downtown taking a similar amount of time.

This whole idea of another train to O'Hare seems really outlandish to me.
We already have good transit form the CBD to our airports; much better than other large american cities. Why are we about to spend a ton of money building a third train line from The Loop to O'Hare that can't be much faster than the other two (unless we spend even crazier amounts of money on new ROW)?
Are we really competing with Singapore for this kind of thing? Who would go there rather than here due to a faster train downtown?
Are enough people to matter really so prissy that they can't stand sharing a CTA train with the residents of the city they're visiting? And if they are, would they really ride this express, or take a cab/limo directly to their destination anyway?

And imagine how much nicer the Blue Line could be made if they spent the money for this there instead. Think of how many more Chicagoans would benefit from that spending every day.

^ not a red herring at all. One block of walking takes a significant amount of time when traveling with bags or small children.

If this could be done on the NCS as a private operation, I'd be all for it. But it can't, because a proper airport express needs at least 20 minute frequency all day, and you can't do that without major flyovers at every junction from O'Hare to CUS. Cities like London and Paris built those flyovers a century ago and now they can run airport express trains using just their excess capacity.

New Member
 

I would like to welcome Ellen Hughes of the Stop the Flyover Coalition to our Forum, please play nice!

She'll be treated here like anyone else. If she says something stupid, she'll be called out on it:shrug:.

"I am not losing my house," Hughes said, referring to the 16 commercial and residential buildings on 21 properties that the CTA must acquire to accommodate the flyover structure. "But Chicago is going to lose Lakeview," she said.


Lakeview isn't going anywhere and the neighborhood/community is larger than 16 properties and the project would serve ALL who use said rail lines.

A hearing for the public to comment on the bypass environmental assessment will be held from 6:30 to 8 p.m. June 3 at the Center on Halsted, 3656 N. Halsted St., Chicago.

It really does and it makes me pissed that the planning is so short sighted that it isn't.

Even if there are no plans to run O'Hare express in that vicinity it could still eventually be useful to integrate with potential Metra or Amtrak operations in the future as well. Even if the idea is not have O'hare express at all, run it to a West terminal, build a spur more direct towards the terminals, or run it on the Blue Line eventually it would STILL be advisable to build it so that it wasn't 400 feet away away and through layers of parking decks in order to get to it. As someone who has used the Metra station at O'Hare after a flight I would RATHER deal with the current set up then have to walk through a parking garage or walk around the building in order to get to a train.

If the idea is to kick the can down the road and extend the ATS again in the future by 100's of yards sweeping around the building and needlessly adding another station (and time) to the whole track in order to serve Metra/Amtrak trains when the time calls for it then it is extremely shortsighted. Again, because of time, station, and cost factors. The time to make those tracks and the ATS interconnected is NOW with this project. Unfortunately I don't see it happening.

My speculation is that rental companies or some powers that be insisted that they wanted the fact of the complex facing west towards Besty Coleman Drive. Given that it is primary built for the rental companies in mind they get largest say in the layout and format of the complex.

It is true that some situation exists that needs to be addressed, and plans must be made to provide for more capacity in the future; but CTA's plan is NOT the only possible alternative, as they try to make it seem. And they HAVE to say what they say, because it's their job; like me selling BP Gas -- I can't send people to Shell or Mobil, or I'll be fired.

Do you think CTA Staff can say "Well, maybe we should consider some other alternatives" -- "Sure Chuck, nice knowing you"

We got $400M (and still paying) Block 37 because of Transit Propaganda ("our Central Core would die from our lack of an Airport Express to compete with other cities"). Now Ming has decided to look into an Airport Express again, and YOU ALL are already pulling it apart.

Many Chicago Area transit Projects (Circle Line, Star Line, etc.) have failed, and this thing needs to be one of them.

""But Chicago is going to lose Lakeview," she said."

One of the stupidest comments I've read.

All your other examples were pet projects of politicians and died because they didn't solve immediate needs and/or their cost/benefit ratio was completely out of range.

The Red/Brown Flyover solves an immediate problem, isn't a pet project of anyone I can identify, has been proposed previously (for the same reasons) and was shot down then only because the immediately surrounding area protested too much. The CTA has a history of both proposing pet projects that can and should go nowhere, but also of very worthwhile plans that get dumped for problems outside the domain of the CTA or transit. For example the 1968 plan had many components that were worthy and have been proved worthy over the past almost 50 years (who can say that a subway from the West Loop to Streeterville, the South Loop and McCormick Place wouldn't be very useful today?), but didn't happen essentially because of the late 1970s stag-flation and changes to the way the Feds funded transit.

The flyover is, in my opinion, something that should have been done when it was first proposed and definitely needs to be done today.

You forgot one other pet projects..."Obsessed Activist..Gray Project". "doesn't solve immediate needs and/or their cost/benefit ratio was completely out of range."

DH

..

The Stop the Flyover people are cast as being selfish, "standing in the way of progress", and inhibiting thousands. Blocking whole the Future of the North Side -- BULL!

ONE thing all that money could be used for instead would be to restore the XBus system on Major Streets throughout the City of Chicago. That system significantly improved Public Transit ALL OVER the Entire City (or am I wrong?)

And I am sure it could be re-implemented at FAR LESS cost than the Flyover, which selfishly improves Public Transit ONLY on the North Side, Claypool's "Golden Corridor" (much more about that statement later). They said that system was eliminated for "financial reasons"....

Who was that CPS Lady who just resigned? You know I really trust the "honesty" factor in Chicago Government.

And them eliminating the #11 section, and blocking the #31 was just PETTY; ANY Organization the size of CTA could have found that money somewhere!

It's like they didn't bring a small animal to their Royal Audience for sacrifice, and so they were sent away.

For better or worse, capital projects and those requiring operating funds are often judged by very different criteria at US transit agencies, and draw on different sources. We can't easily use TIF funds to add Lincoln bus hours, for instance.

The X buses were paid for by CMAQ demonstration project grants, as I recall, so eventually had to show some results or come to an end. The problem was that, without signal preemption or dedicated lanes, they didn't run end-to-end much faster than the locals. Since we didn't yet have BusTracker, the patron on the street quickly learned that he was better off just taking whichever bus came first.

The Red Line no longer runs to 95th St ?

Yes it certainly does, but not along Stony Island, Cottage Grove, King Drive, Ashland, Western, Pulaski, and Cicero.

It Is VERY convenient to ride from North & Pulaski 40 blocks down to the Red Line at Clark, then to 95th, then 40 blocks back to Pulaski on Pace (instead of a one-seat express ride) Oh yeah, you can hop the Blue Line at Damen to get downtown and transfer to the Red Line (BIG time savings); 4 seat ride versus 1 seat ride.

Also the Express bus routes ran through from the South Side to the North Side as well. And the X55 made a fast run to Midway for Hyde Park/UoC people, and the X80 made a fast trip for North Siders from the Lakefront areas to the Irving & Pulaski Blue Line connection to O'Hare; and I love the implication that I am only working for the South Side instead of the entire city.

So do you think the Flyover is better than serving the E N T I R E City? Why?

Why is the Flyover better, than an Express on Cicero from Jeff Park to 95th (and A L L the other streets?) And why does just the North Side deserve it better, than A L L the other parts of the City COMBINED? ONE Bridge versus 9 to 10 Regional Express Bus Routes covering many, many economically and ethnically diverse neighborhoods. Why?

Yes it does run to 95th St. And the city and the CTA along with thousands of daily riders await building the Red line south to E. 130th St.

DH

If the Red Line is going to 130th, why are they building the Giant Star Wars Hive at 95th St. (I mean, if it is only going to end up being an intermediate station along the Line). All the incoming feeder buses would end up rerouted to/through closer stations like 103rd, 111th, 116th & Michigan, and the 130th St. Terminal, wouldn't they? With only 95E & 95W remaining. Why would Pace bypass other closer Red Line stations to get to 95th?

Read the Tea Leaves David! They said it might be 16yrs. before Funding efforts kick into gear.

You are right, and that was my experience (at that time), I serviced all the Copiers, Printers, and Faxes at Rush St. Luke's Medical Center for about 3 years, while living at 87th and Cottage Grove. The Blue Line to the Red Line to 87th was crowded, slow, and a drag. If I didn't see an X9, I would get on a local (you could still watch out the back window for a catching-up Express, and I had a Pass) If the Express came first, it was a WAAAAAAY better ride than screwing with the "L", faster and less crowded; and they all took a few passengers away FROM the already crowded "L" system. With the GPS Bus Tracking Technology that we have now, and Flat Screen Displays at Express stops and on-board; you could show the real-time relative locations of the buses on each route (X's in Red, Locals in Green), so you could decide how to route your trip.

Our new Pres. Carter should be able to look into this, with his Washington DC Funding connections. Even in addition to a Flyover.

And you know the Gray Line is going to end up in this somewhere, so get ready.

And you do know that any Funding from the Feds. must have Local Matching Funds; I'm am not sure what the Funding Ratio would be for the Flyover (does anybody know?), but I wonder if Gov. Rauner would be willing to come up with $500 to $800M to match those Bridge Funds, if lots of folks said it was a HUGE WASTE; and that it been overwhelmingly voted against by Citizens in a Non-Binding Referendum. (which of course the past Springfield Administration would just ignore, but Bruce seems to be just Hell-on-Fire about eliminating waste --
I think he's OCDC)

You contended that the flyover would only improve transit for the north side, which isn't the case since the Dan Ryan branch would necessarily enjoy the increased schedule it would allow.

The goals of improved bus service and increased rail capacity aren't mutually exclusive. I'd like to see a lot more BRT (particularly on the south side and E-W streets of the north side).

Because the Feds are never going to give us funding to do the Red Line extension and CTA could never afford to do it out all out of pocket. RPM (and the now rolled in flyover) can go after more pots of money and thus stands a much better chance of getting funded.

^ If I remember correctly, RPM/Belmont Flyover is the only project in contention for Core Capacity funds. It's a hefty chunk of Federal money set aside only for older heavy rail transit systems, and of the ten systems in the US that qualify, CTA is way ahead of the pack since Dick Durbin created the fund in last year's transportation bill.

Please explain to me how this money can be used to restore express bus service.

Like others on this page, I support BRT and even BRT-lite improvements like Jeffrey Jump - they are a very important piece of the CTA puzzle, and I sincerely hope Emanuel pushes Ashland BRT as a proof-of-concept to expand throughout the city. But it's hard to build new transit lines when your old ones are crumbling and their capacity is maxed out.

Public sounds off at CTA Brown Line flyover Forum
 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-brown-line-flyover-public-meeting-20150603-story.html

June 3rd, 2015 9:35pm

North Side residents seized the opportunity Tuesday night to weigh in on the controversial CTA project to route the Brown Line over two other elevated lines.

It was the first public meeting on the Brown Line flyover since the CTA submitted an environmental assessment that included expanding the scope of the transit project that aims ease a rail bottleneck at the Clark Junction, where the Brown, Red and Purple lines intersect.....

Contrary to the assertions of Ellen Hughes the flyover is not going to "destroy" Lakeview. I find her hyperbolic statements laughable in the face of such an obviously beneficial and long desired/planned infrastructure improvement. As a property owner, on and off again resident, and frequent visitor to the neighborhood I want to see this project come to fruition.

As I said about new President Carter, he has connections in DC; that is HIS JOB to find OTHER sources -- FOR THE PUBLIC GOOD!

NOT feed the hungry Transit-Construction Complex.

I found the process very open and the representatives easy to talk to. I think that this project will happen regardless of the push back of certain people of the community, as it's for the overall benefit of the system. I'd like to see the TOD radius expanded from 600' to 1000' around transit stations in order to increase overall density.

OF COURSE they were Happy, polite, and very easy to talk to; they were AT WORK (on the Clock) with a specific assignment (and script).

The Flyover may very well end up being built after all, but it is about to undergo a much more rigorous "value examination" procedure (cost/benefit ratio, and relative need) before it gets there.....


btw: Your TOD radius expansion idea is E X C E L L E N T, We need to fight for that also BV!

That was a grand admission on your part. Thank you.

DH

It may also end up NOT being built, can you admit that?

CTA Green Line Faces President Obama Library Fight

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...100_0724_1.jpg[/URL]
Green Line Garfield Boulevard station.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...P1020473_1.jpg[/URL]
Ground level showing the "L" overpass over the boulevard.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...P1110700_1.jpg[/URL]
A Green line train rattles the switches at 59th St. Junction. Next stop is Garfield, "doors open on the right."


Now that the two sites have been singled out, transportation issues makes the Green Line and the Washington Park site the clear winner. CTA "L" headways easily beat out the hour schedule of Metra Electric and the CTA #10 Museum, in those months when the #10 runs. An Obama Presidential Library could have a direct entry from the Green Line Garfield station. Whereas a Jackson Park location would be blocks away from any Metra Electric station requiring walking. The #10 Museum bus would easily get its route diverted.

The Chicago Tribune in its Wednesday, June 3, edition, wrote an article called "What Will City Do For Obama Library?" and cited the transportation issues of the two sites but the article also said "making the south side seem more attractive to tourists and residents from the entire Chicagoland area" is a major task . The article mentioned studies that say a $220 million-a-year economic impact would come to the city. But a library would have to draw 800,000 visitors a year.

A Jackson Park location would offer a close connection to Hyde Park, the U of C, the Science Museum, and the lakefront. These areas are thought by some as being "more" safe. But that is an idea that runs counter to a main theme...."the library should bring new investments to the surrounding neighborhoods, creating jobs and spurring economic growth." Which community is in dire needs: Hyde Park or Washington Park. A major task would be making the Green line "safe."

DH

Another big Theme as you said is "Access".....

The Metra Electric Line (even with just it's existing rail service) provides vastly more Regional access to the Jackson Park area than the Green Line does to the Washington Park area.

The Green Line runs farther south only to 63rd. St. (Cottage Grove and Ashland), with a direct connection to Downtown on the Loop "L".

The Metra Electric also connects directly to Downtown, but also could bring visitors from South and Southeast neighborhoods within the city (South Shore, Lakeside, South Chicago, Grand Crossing, Chatham, Burnside, the Pullman National Park, etc.) that the Green Line obviously couldn't reach, in additon to South Suburban Minority communities like Riverdale, Dixmoor, Calumet Heights, Blue Island, and Harvey (all the way out to University Park).

And the NICTD services running on the MED would provide Minority NE Indiana communities like East Chicago, Hammond, and Gary with access to the Obama Library; and from even as far as Michigan City and South Bend.

An upgrading of the in-city routes of the MED to CTA Gray Line service, would provide the same "L" services to Jackson Park, as the Green Line does to Washington Park -- but throughout the eastern South Side areas in addition.

The neighborhoods truly needing the most economic investment can be easily seen, as described in this Crain's Chicago Business "Money Train" article: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...income-levels#

MAN....Give up that "BS" idea......Never will it happen!

DH

I'm sorry, but that just isn't true. While access to the site from SE Chicago and NW Indiana would be improved, the rest of the region would see significantly diminished accessibility by placing the Library at Jackson Park.

Thank you. Gray Line has been harping that idea for twenty years. What doesn't he understand about "NO"?

DH

Please explain that "diminished accessibility" for the rest of the region?

What transit routes and/or services are available in Washington Park, that are not there at Jackson Park?

I understand "NO" quite clearly, there was a "NO" for the Circle Line, a "NO" for the Star Line, and a "NO" for the Circulator Trolley. BUT we did however get a resounding $400M "YES" for Block 37 (100% approval by the City Council); how do you feel about all the Taxpayer money spent (and STILL BEING SPENT) on that Big Useless Hole-in-the-Ground David? Lemme Guess: "A solid investment toward's the City's Future"?

Also please explain the people who voted the Gray Line into second place in the Museum Campus Transportation Study (and their very positive comments): http://www.civicartworks.com/project...opular&phase=1 Which was supposed to have been completed in December, but whose results are being withheld; even though we now 99% have the Lucas Museum coming.

David, I have not cursed at you -- And I can come up with some pretty imaginative ones about you and your Parents. I thought this was supposed to be an "Adult Forum".

I WOULD NEVER call ANY idea another Person had "bull shit", the "Class" your Parents raised you with (????) is showing through very well.

Much less likely than it happening, but of course, anything is possible.

Wednesday's CTA Board Meeting is going to be quite explosive, I dropped a match in the woods.
The Gray Line might not ever happen either; among many, many other Projects.

Why do you keep bringing up Block 37, you sound like Cable Fox News....over and over again. What, do you think they are going to give the money spent for Block 37 to Gray Line. Every time a new politician is elected or appointed you run like he or she is going to fund Gray Line. Hasn't worked for twenty years. Pitiful! Now evidently, you hope the Brown Flyover would become money to fund Gray Line. Or have you moved to Lakeview.

Finally, you haven't noticed that Museum Campus Transportation Study has no money so who cares about their comments. Get comments by Metra and you would have something. Oh, that's right....twenty years...they've told you "NO."

DH

I keep bringing up Block 37 because they WASTED 400 MILLION DOLLARS on it (and it is STILL us costing right now today), What is that "None of your Business" for the Taxpayers who paid for it, or something? "You don't need to know how WE spend YOUR Money; then, now, or in the Future" And I was talking about the Public's comments about the Gray Line, not the MPC's.

Have you ever heard of Hyman Rickover? And Metra is about to undergo a thorough examination of the way it spends money also!

Good grief.

Washington Park area CTA Transit: CTA Green Line, #55 Garfield, #3 King Drive (are there others?): http://www.transitchicago.com/assets...ap/200806C.htm

Jackson Park area CTA Transit: #2 Hyde Park Express, #6 Jackson Park Exp. #15 Jeffrey Local, #28 Stony Island, #X28 Stony Island Exp., #55 Garfield, #59 59th St. And that is just CTA services minus the Metra Electric and the South Shore Line.

Ask you a specific question, and you respond "Good grief"; great explaination of your "diminished accessiblity" statement.

"Wasted"....Who give's a ..... "Examination".... Who cares?

You think you're gonna get some of wasted money??? Fund Gray Line???
No somebody cares.

I'M OUT. I'M NOT SAYING ANY MORE.

Fine -- Watch the News David..... Even better, come to Wednesday's CTA Board Meeting!

Local coalition wants CTA bus service restored on 31st Street
 

http://www.gazettechicago.com/index/...n-31st-street/

June 6, 2015

CTA buses could once again roll down 31st Street if the Crosstown Bus Coalition has its way.

By Patrick Butler

Members of the Crosstown Bus Coalition plan to press their case for restoring the No. 31 bus route on 31st Street at the next Chicago Transit Authority (CTA) board meeting, set for 10 a.m. on Wednesday, June 10, at 567 W. Lake St.....

The Gray Line isn't even a plan, it's a fantasy that resides in your head. The flyover has had real studies, simulations, and financial figures and benefits placed behind it.



Those "expresses" get caught in traffic along with other bus lines as they aren't grade separated, while the green line, which connects to the pink, orange, red, blue, brown and other bus routes, doesn't.

The Gray line is now just a fantasy in my head; BUT it is also CMAP RTP ID# 01-02-9003 (Google just that number) A Major Capital Project included in the State's Regional Transportation Plan: http://www.grayline.20m.com/favorite_links_7.html That CATS screen capture says "regarding Proposals IN [ IN ] the 2030 RTP", but the Gray Line is suppressed now for POLITICAL reasons (it is still in there, now hidden as "South Corridor Rail Service" or something).

But it is only there of course because they had to include representation from the Negroe Community to avoid Civil Rights Prosecution.

And those "benefits" you speak of include half a billion dollars to the Transit-Construction Complex (T-C); i.e.: Connected Construction Company Campaign Contributors, who made really B I G Contributions, and now expect a B I G return on their Investment (much better than Las Vegas)


So access for Minority kids from within the City South of 63rd St., and the Far South Suburbs; and NW Indiana Minority Communities is just "Too bad for them", is that what you are saying? WOW.....

A lot of money for temporary relief
 

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...mporary-relief

June 06, 2015

GREG HINZ ON POLITICS

You might call it the $570 million question, one that hundreds of thousands of commuters—not to mention Loop employers and Lakeview residents—would like answered.

The question: Is it worth having the Chicago Transit Authority spend that much to build a flyover bridge to separate the Red and Brown line tracks at the so-called Clark Junction, just south of Wrigley Field......

Read the Comments!

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...f/P1110626.jpg
A northbound Brown line slows while it awaits for the southbound main tracks to clear....minutes, just a minute, or tens of seconds....it depends on which side you believe in the controversy about the flyover at Clark Tower.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s...f/P1040671.jpg
Cleared, a northbound Brown line train leaves the interlocking and prepares to enter the branch. Because the NB move came from track 4, no other opposite move can be made except a SB Brown line move.

Clark Junction is called a "flat junction." Chicago elevateds have built flat junctions though its history. The first was on the west side near Marshfield, then three junctions bringing the four surrounding "L" companies onto the Loop. On the south side similar junctions were built at 59th St, Stewart Ave, and at Indiana Ave. On the north side, flat junctions were found at Clark Tower and at Howard terminal.

In 1938 the plans for flying junctions were included in the Initial Subway with interfaces with current "L" tracks and the subway lines. Provisions for additional junctions were included in the State St. tubes at Roosevelt and in the Dearborn St. tubes at Lake and Milwaukee. In the 1950s a flying junction brought the Douglas Park into the Congress median. In preparation in the Congress construction, a temporary flat junction was built at Paulina Ave on the Lake St. "L". Removed from service, the junction returned with the creation on the Pink line.

In the late 1960s the new Dan Ryan bought a flying junction at 18th St. The same trackage would be used when the Orange line came into being.

^^ The "traffic lights" at the front of the train look really cool.