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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

Mr Downtown Feb 11, 2016 3:52 PM

^The second 40 percent is a line item in a budget that Congress refused to even hold the usual courtesy hearings on. So I don't really see the point of discussing it as anything other than fan fiction.

ardecila Feb 12, 2016 12:03 AM

I don't think that really matters. The president's budget is a suggestion, yes - Congress will determine funding levels through the appropriations process.

However, the Core Capacity program was already authorized by Congress and Obama has already signaled his intention to give all or most of the FY2016 appropriation for Core Capacity, whatever that may be, to the RPM project. Unless Congress appropriates no money at all to Core Capacity, CTA will get some money.

Vlajos Feb 12, 2016 5:01 PM

CTA had record train ridership in 2015.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...212-story.html

spyguy Feb 13, 2016 4:25 PM

This again?
 
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...213-story.html

Quote:

Emanuel tries to resurrect O'Hare express train plan
By John Byrne


Mayor Rahm Emanuel is trying to resurrect Chicago's long-elusive plan for an express train from downtown to O'Hare International Airport by hiring an engineering firm to look at possible routes and costs.

It's a preliminary step, and the Emanuel administration isn't sure who would pay for the massive project, which could run into the billions of dollars.

Quote:

Block 37 is off the table as the downtown terminal, Evans said, citing "technical concerns" brought to her attention in a recent meeting by representatives of the Chicago Transit Authority and other regional travel agencies. The downtown station for the express line might be built in a "high-growth neighborhood" such as the West Loop or River North, Evans said.

OhioGuy Feb 13, 2016 5:12 PM

Is it clear whether there is enough demand for an express train to O'Hare? Toronto's new express train to Pearson hasn't fared well so far.

How Toronto got a ‘world-class,’ gold-plated, half-billion-dollar empty train

Via Chicago Feb 13, 2016 5:26 PM

its deja vu all over again

Via Chicago Feb 13, 2016 5:29 PM

does the current administration not realize that Uber will take you downtown (exact location in fact) for the same price as the ticket theyre proposing? anyone relying on public transit would just as well pay the 2.50 for an extra 20 minutes on the blue.

and even better to see that Block 37 terminal is off the table...lets see how many more white elephants we can build! lord knows we have plenty of extra money sitting around.

denizen467 Feb 13, 2016 5:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioGuy (Post 7334738)
Is it clear whether there is enough demand for an express train to O'Hare? Toronto's new express train to Pearson hasn't fared well so far.

It's not necessarily clear, but it doesn't mean a good solution for Chicago is impossible. Having a downtown terminal that can ensure a painless (no-wait, and weather-protected) transfer to/from a taxi (or similar mode) could be one key to the puzzle. Block 37 would have been questionable for that, but a less congested area west of the river/expressway might be workable. Taxi fares have leapt past $50 with tip this January, so even $30 to West Loop plus a taxi transfer is worth a look.

All it takes is 1 mugging a year on the Blue Line to scare away tons of potential ridership from using the existing option. No way can you expect the majority visitor families or businesspeople with expensive laptops or other gear to risk the el. And regardless of whether you're from out of town, if you have any amount of luggage, a 45 minute clattering congested ride on the el becomes a non starter when taxis or on-demand private vehicles are so easy to get.

If you read the comments to the Tribune article, it's as though nobody gives a crap about pollution or comprehends that as the city grows in future decades the Kennedy will only get worse.

the urban politician Feb 13, 2016 6:10 PM

For it to make sense it needs to be fast. Period.

Even 25 mins seems too slow

Kngkyle Feb 13, 2016 6:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 7334781)
For it to make sense it needs to be fast. Period.

Even 25 mins seems too slow

And it has to be cheap. Less than half the cost of an Uber or taxi. The thing certainly wont pay for itself or even cover its operation costs. Not to say that is a deal breaker, since no transit really does that, but if we are going to spend money on transit projects I think there are better options for the city. Such as connecting the Brown to the Blue line. That would make getting to ORD easier for much of the Northside plus it has the benefit of being useful for commuters.

ardecila Feb 13, 2016 9:57 PM

Assuming this is a mainline rail solution like Toronto's and not some half-assed thing in the Blue Line corridor, this isn't actually that difficult or outlandishly expensive.

-Add a fourth track to MD-West, or passing sidings to support 15 minute service levels (the ROW once had 4 tracks out to Harlem or so, and Metra owns the railroad)
-Build a downtown terminal somewhere around Halsted (the old Pickens Kane building was actually built as a C&NW freight terminal, so it's already set up for platforms and only ~500' from a Blue Line connection).
-Buy some DMUs

The difficult part (politically) is actually at the airport end. You need to find a way into the terminal complex, or get CN's cooperation to go up their tracks to a People Mover connection at the new rental car facility.

Kngkyle Feb 13, 2016 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 7334977)
Assuming this is a mainline rail solution like Toronto's and not some half-assed thing in the Blue Line corridor, this isn't actually that difficult or outlandishly expensive.

-Add a fourth track to MD-West, or passing sidings to support 15 minute service levels (the ROW once had 4 tracks out to Harlem or so, and Metra owns the railroad)
-Build a downtown terminal somewhere around Halsted (the old Pickens Kane building was actually built as a C&NW freight terminal, so it's already set up for platforms and only ~500' from a Blue Line connection).
-Buy some DMUs

The difficult part (politically) is actually at the airport end. You need to find a way into the terminal complex, or get CN's cooperation to go up their tracks to a People Mover connection at the new rental car facility.

The time saved over the blue line is going to be virtually non-existent if a transfer to the people mover is required. Your solution might not cost in the billions, but it also isn't an improvement over what already exists, so the whole thing would be utterly pointless.

CTA Gray Line Feb 13, 2016 11:29 PM

Emanuel tries to resurrect O'Hare express train plan
 
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...213-story.html

Mayor Rahm Emanuel is trying to resurrect Chicago's long elusive plan for an express train from downtown Chicago to O'Hare International Airport.....

Via Chicago Feb 14, 2016 12:02 AM

so i heard

ardecila Feb 14, 2016 3:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kngkyle (Post 7335047)
The time saved over the blue line is going to be virtually non-existent if a transfer to the people mover is required. Your solution might not cost in the billions, but it also isn't an improvement over what already exists, so the whole thing would be utterly pointless.

I don't think time savings is actually a big deal. The goal is to provide a user-friendly, limited stop system that connects the airport to downtown. The Blue Line, like the rest of the CTA system, is relatively slow and very cramped, by global standards. I think a better system would lure a lot of people out of taxis and rideshares, potentially reducing Kennedy congestion.

Maybe I'm crazy, but maybe they could axe the segment of the Blue Line from Rosemont to O'Hare and have the express train take over that segment?

You could reroute the Blue Line to the new rental car garage with transfer to APM. If the express is designed carefully, maybe it can have decent connections to CTA and discounted fares for airport employees... at that point, the only people left riding the Blue Line to O'Hare will be a handful of city-dwelling folks who want the absolute cheapest trip to the airport, so they deserve an extra 5-10 minutes trip...


Another off-the-wall idea: fully automate the Blue Line and with the savings on motorman pay, increase all-day headways to between 2-5 minutes, around the clock. The Blue Line, being completely divorced from the rest of the CTA network, is ideal for this. With higher frequency, you can shorten trains to 4 cars or even 2 cars and still meet demand while alleviating the crush-loading problems that make the Blue Line an uncomfortable choice for air travelers. Travelers would still have their butt in a seat the same amount of time vs today, but could save almost 10-15 minutes of waiting, especially at off-peak times.

CTA Gray Line Feb 14, 2016 1:26 PM

How do you spell "White Elephant": http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...service=mobile

k1052 Feb 14, 2016 4:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 7335197)

Maybe I'm crazy, but maybe they could axe the segment of the Blue Line from Rosemont to O'Hare and have the express train take over that segment?

You could reroute the Blue Line to the new rental car garage with transfer to APM. If the express is designed carefully, maybe it can have decent connections to CTA and discounted fares for airport employees... at that point, the only people left riding the Blue Line to O'Hare will be a handful of city-dwelling folks who want the absolute cheapest trip to the airport, so they deserve an extra 5-10 minutes trip...

I think such a move would be tremendously unpopular with regular O'Hare blue line riders (particularly the workforce).

I don't have any problem with the city exploring and implementing if it can be done at a less than ruinous cost and actually stands a good chance of attracting ridership but I don't think it's a must have at this point. O'Hare and Midway's rail access is already better than our domestic competitor cites with maybe the exception of Newark since it has NEC access. I'd much prefer a solution that integrates with Metra and Amtrak in some way for more intermodal opportunity.

Nouvellecosse Feb 15, 2016 2:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTA Gray Line (Post 7335384)

The fares are just too pricey to attract ridership.

ardecila Feb 15, 2016 3:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 7335428)
I think such a move would be tremendously unpopular with regular O'Hare blue line riders (particularly the workforce).

I don't have any problem with the city exploring and implementing if it can be done at a less than ruinous cost and actually stands a good chance of attracting ridership but I don't think it's a must have at this point. O'Hare and Midway's rail access is already better than our domestic competitor cites with maybe the exception of Newark since it has NEC access. I'd much prefer a solution that integrates with Metra and Amtrak in some way for more intermodal opportunity.

Well, no reason not to dream big. A mainline rail tunnel going north-south under the airport with a station in the central terminal complex would have lots of usefulness, especially if it extended up to Touhy on the north end. The Hiawatha could be diverted to serve O'Hare...

ardecila Feb 15, 2016 3:11 AM

dp


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