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-   -   NEW YORK | Moynihan Station / MSG Renovation (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185034)

NYguy Jan 12, 2021 3:05 AM

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NYguy Jan 12, 2021 3:14 AM

https://gothamist.com/news/long-over...st-walkthrough

"Long Overdue": Visitors Marvel At New Moynihan Train Hall In First Walkthrough


https://cms.prod.nypr.digital/images.../fill-661x496/


BY STEPHEN NESSEN, WNYC
JAN. 2, 2021


Quote:

The public got its first chance to walk the halls of the new Moynihan Train Hall across from Penn Station Friday, two days after officials cut the ceremonial ribbon to the mammoth, $1.6 billion train hub.

For some visitors, the stop was merely intended to gaze at the enormous hall complete with an enormous skylight roof and Art Deco clock. Many were spotted craning their necks to take in the open skylight, pivoting their hips taking scenic, panoramic photos. Others searched for fresco portraits created by Kehinde Wiley, which are prominently displayed at the 33rd Street entrance, or the spacious and modern Amtrak lounge on the upper floor.
Quote:

Self-proclaimed train and travel nerd Christian Keesee, 59, from the Upper East Side was one of the first people at Moynihan Friday morning, declaring it a true gem for the city.

“This is a New York station made for New Yorkers, it’s fantastic,” he said. “The light, we need that, I don’t like being underground. I like being above ground, I like the sunshine, the seasons, I think it’s fantastic.” His partner Larry Keigwan, 48, added, “Long overdue, so amazing, it feels appropriate for the new year, and it’s inspiring, I really really like it."

Jess Allen, 45, from Chelsea, brought her 6-year old son Wolf to see the train hall. Overlooking the 225,000-square-foot space from the upper level, where a food court is expected to open later this year, Wolf marveled at the open space.

“The one thing is, it’s very very big, and it doesn’t get crowded like the small station, Penn Station,” Wolf said.
Quote:

With few people traveling Friday by train, children as young as 18 months scooted across the squeaky fresh marble floors. Tim Mulligan, 27, from the Upper West Side, brought his toddler to see Moynihan.

“It gives us something to be proud of and excited for when you’re coming into Penn Station, and that’s something that’s been missing for a long time,” Mulligan said. “I honestly dread coming to Penn Station, but now I’m looking forward to have a reason to take the train so I can experience it for real.”




https://www.thecity.nyc/2021/1/10/22...han-train-hall

Homeless Feel Unwelcome at Gleaming New Moynihan Train Hall as They Stick to Penn Station


BY JOSE MARTINEZ
JAN 10, 2021


Quote:

When a homeless man who goes by “Kush” first stood outside the new Moynihan Train Hall and peered in, he quickly realized he would be avoiding New York’s newest transit showpiece.

“I’ve seen it from the door and I know it’s not for me,” Kush said. “It’s very visible that it’s not for me, so I sleep somewhere else.”

Just after midnight last Tuesday, “somewhere else” was across Eighth Avenue in a corridor with several other homeless people on the upper level of Penn Station, alongside a shopping cart stuffed with garbage bags of aluminum cans.
Quote:

Inside the famously grungy rail hub, homeless New Yorkers told THE CITY that the Jan. 1 opening of the sparkling train hall for Amtrak and Long Island Rail Road customers doesn’t change a thing for them.

The hall closes daily between 1 a.m. and 5 a.m. — the same hours of the overnight subway shutdown. The space has no public seating, except in areas limited to ticketed passengers.

“It’s a way of ostracizing,” Kush said. “It’s like they say, ‘Oh, not those people.’”
Quote:

Gov. Andrew Cuomo and other state officials have touted Moynihan Train Hall as a transformative gateway to the city after decades of train travelers crowding inside the low-ceilinged Penn Station, which replaced the Beaux-Arts hub infamously demolished in the 1960s.

But advocates for the homeless say Moynihan Train Hall’s hours and seating limitations are designed to stem the migration of those who take refuge in the station across the street.

“I think it’s just another example of places being unwelcoming to actively homeless people or people who appear homeless,” said Giselle Routhier, policy director at the Coalition for the Homeless.
Quote:

The overnight closure of Moynihan Train Hall, which opened to praise of its design and skylit marble waiting area, is not an unusual one at transit facilities.

Grand Central Terminal is closed between 2 a.m. and 5 a.m. Lower Manhattan’s Fulton Center closes during the hours when there is no passenger service in the subway. Union Station in Washington is off-limits to the public from midnight to 5 a.m.

Among the city’s newest transit halls, the World Trade Center Transportation Hub, which opened in 2016, and the Fulton Center, which opened in 2014, have been criticized for a lack of seating in public areas.
Quote:

Additional seating at Moynihan Train Hall is planned once retail areas are completed, said Matthew Gorton, a spokesperson for Empire State Development Corporation, the state authority that oversaw the building conversion.

Gorton said the 255,000-square-foot train hall closes for maintenance and cleaning overnight — when 30 LIRR, NJTransit and Amtrak trains arrive and depart from Penn Station.

The decision to permanently close Moynihan Train Hall for four hours each night was made, Gorton said, by representatives from the Empire State Development Corporation, Amtrak, the MTA, the U.S. Postal Service and Vornado Realty Trust, which is developing 120,000 square feet of retail space inside the building.

Penn Station stays open around the clock, a draw for those without shelter, with many people spread out on floors or congregating near the turnstiles after the subway closes.

“On one side of the street, it’s alright for us to be there,” said Nolan Gonzalez, 33, a homeless man who was resting by the turnstiles closest to the newly remodeled subway entrance at 33rd Street and Eighth Avenue. “On the other side, it’s not alright.

Of the new Moynihan Station, he said: “Ultimately, this isn’t our house.”

Mimol742 Jan 12, 2021 4:37 AM

This is ridiculous! Train station are not and should not be homeless shelters. Politicians need to address this issue and build some sort of housing and mental health facility since most of them have serious mental issues.

NYguy Jan 12, 2021 5:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimol742 (Post 9156965)
This is ridiculous! Train station are not and should not be homeless shelters. Politicians need to address this issue and build some sort of housing and mental health facility since most of them have serious mental issues.

I agree, train stations shouldn’t be looked at as a place to accommodate the homeless. And I can remember when it wasn’t allowed at Penn. As the saying goes, that’s why we can’t have nice things.



Video Link

mrnyc Jan 12, 2021 6:54 PM

^ where are those state troopers cuomo is always sneaking into town? let them and homeless outreach deal with it.


so moynihan hall looks like the renders to me.

no complaints, job very well done, on time and on budget.

NYguy Jan 13, 2021 3:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 9157415)
^ where are those state troopers cuomo is always sneaking into town? let them and homeless outreach deal with it.


so moynihan hall looks like the renders to me.

no complaints, job very well done, on time and on budget.

Didn't pay too much attention to it until I read that article, but I looked down tonight when I went through, and that Moynihan floor is nice and clean. Can't wait for the rest of it to open, but we're still in the pandemic, so I don't think much would be different now if it were. By the fall or sooner though, things should be opening up there. As for the other part of Penn, it's still an open construction eyesore, but at least this part is complete, and people do seem to enjoy it.



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NYguy Jan 15, 2021 4:12 AM

Some preliminary renderings of what the expansion could look like...


https://patch.com/new-york/midtown-n...ent-cuomo-vows

Midtown West To Be Transformed In Major Redevelopment, Cuomo Vows
Gov. Andrew Cuomo laid out an ambitious plan Thursday to transform Midtown West through new housing and revitalized public transit.



Nick Garber
Jan 14, 2021


Quote:

Hundreds of units of affordable housing, an expanded Penn Station and a revitalized Port Authority Bus Complex are in store for the west side of Midtown in the coming years as part of an ambitious redevelopment, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Thursday.

The project will "form a new, vibrant, exciting district" covering an L-shaped, 140-acre area of the neighborhood, according to Cuomo, who announced the plans as part of his State of the State address.
Quote:

-14 new building sites being made available to create up to 1,400 units of affordable housing and 20 million square feet of retail

-Empire Station Complex, a major expansion of Penn Station that would add 40 percent more capacity through eight new tracks, as well as two new cross-river train tunnels through the Gateway Project

-Expanding the Javits Convention Center by 50 percent, or about 1.2 million square feet

-Replacing Port Authority Bus Complex with a new facility that adds commercial space and removes bus traffic

-A 1,200-foot extension of the High Line elevated park, running eastward through the Manhattan West housing complex and connecting to the new Moynihan Train Hall

-A second High Line extension heading north and connecting via a pedestrian bridge to Pier 76 on the Hudson River, which will become a public park once the NYPD abandons its tow pound there


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NYguy Jan 15, 2021 4:36 AM

Another look at the renderings, which remind me somewhat of the JDS proposal. Whatever eventually gets built will somewhat resemble this as well, as have all of the renderings the governor has shown.


The JDS version...


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Renderings from the governor's proposal, which is more streamlined...the most important factor is that it will be open to daylight.


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Cuomo's New Deal

Video Link

NYguy Jan 16, 2021 4:03 PM

https://twitter.com/Coptic_Chad/stat...78664705613825


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NYguy Jan 23, 2021 5:56 PM

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/21/a...rain-hall.html

Moynihan Train Hall Becomes a Destination: ‘This Gives Us Hope’
Pandemic-weary visitors are finding uplift in the new station, with its soaring expanses of glass and light. “Perfect quarantine activity,” one says.



https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021...4b53-jumbo.jpg


By Cara Buckley and Sean Piccoli
Jan. 21, 2021


Quote:

They whistled at it, paraded in it, posed against it, and, for a few moments, forgot themselves. They came to instill civic pride in their kids and remind themselves of all that New York could be. And they left with the satisfaction that comes when your city does something monumental, and does it right.

With its soaring expanses of glass and light, the new Moynihan Train Hall, which rises behind the colonnades of the Beaux-Arts James A. Farley Building across from Penn Station, has achieved the near impossible: It has left New Yorkers, 10 months into a harrowing pandemic, feeling transported and inspired.

On a recent weekend day, it also gave them something to do.

“Perfect quarantine activity,” said Mara Golden, who lives in Brooklyn, as she took in the sweep of the main concourse from a balcony last Saturday. Alongside her was her friend Samantha Stahl, who lives in Long Island City. Neither woman had gone out much during the pandemic, but had made an exception for the train hall, which Stahl said looked like an indoor park.

“This is our field trip,” Golden said. “Netflix, home, Moynihan, thank you.”
Quote:

Clara Lipson and her husband, John Ricker, arranged to meet up at the hall with two of their friends from the West Village, Alba Gallo and Sigrid Esser, for a special outing. As they stepped into the main hall, the friends, who are in their 60s and 70s, slowed to a stop, their chins tilting up. As they took in the great space, they murmured approvals to one another behind their masks.

Lipson said she found the hall, with its massive exposed steel trusses, architecturally beautiful, and a welcome nod to old New York at a time when stark glass slabs are rising all over town.

“It’s like an icon of the city,” she said. “Already.” Then announcements for departing trains and their destinations came booming over the broadcast system, echoing throughout the hall. Gallo shook her head.

“The announcement is always … ” Gallo began.

“So loud,” Lipson finished.

“You cannot understand a word they are saying!” Gallo said.
Quote:

Train announcements aside, the hall has been met with accolades. “It delivers on its promise, giving the city the uplifting gateway it deserves,” Michael Kimmelman, The Times’s architecture critic, wrote. A week after the opening, one Amtrak police officer was overhead calling it “the coolest place in New York right now.”

Across the hall from Lipson and her friends, Ben Manna, who is 24 and lives in Queens, was strutting back and forth. He was sporting a white hoodie from a clothing line he had just started up, as his friend John Padoginog, 25, from Long Island, took photos and video. They had spotted the hall on Instagram, and were drawn to it because they wanted to shoot Manna and his wares in a place that had clean lines and modern architecture. There were also few other public places in New York, let alone one of its transit hubs, that were as pristine. “This is pretty much the cleanest place in the city right now,” Padoginog said.
Quote:

David Levinson Wilk and Irene Schneeweis arrived from Brooklyn around midday with three kids in tow — two of them theirs, plus a friend — and the express purpose, Levinson Wilk said, of showing the youngsters great public works.

The couple’s older daughter, Luisa, is an aficionado of New York history, and wanted to see this new chapter of it for herself.

“A lot of cool things come from here,” said Luisa, who is 10. “So I thought it might be cool to see the transition of an old post office, transformed into a new nowadays train station.”

Her verdict? “I love it,” she said.
Quote:

Even in a pandemic, the hall has already become a destination for out-of-towners. Stevan Sandberg, a lawyer who lives in Rhode Island, carved out time to make a pit stop there on his drive to Washington. David Prieto, 32, a tourist from Colombia, was drawn to it after seeing photos on Instagram. Beneath “The Hive,” an art installation by Elmgreen & Dragset near an entrance on 31st Street, he took painstaking selfies of himself by carefully balancing his smartphone on the tip of his shoe. “It’s perfect, it’s beautiful, especially for a train station,” Prieto said, in Spanish.
Quote:

Some of Saturday’s visitors remembered the original, glorious Pennsylvania Station built by McKim, Mead & White, which was torn down in 1963 to make way for Madison Square Garden. Larry Rubin, 80, who paid a visit to the new hall with Sandy Davies, 79, said he passed through the old building when his family took him to Florida by train when he was a kid.

Rubin, who toted a long-lens camera to the new hall for the occasion, remembers the great heights of the old Penn Station, and the sense of “permanence and an optimism” he felt inside it. The new Moynihan Hall may not be quite as grand as what was lost, but Rubin said it was an indisputable improvement to the underground Penn Station across the street.

“To come into New York and come into this,” Rubin continued, “as opposed to coming to that warren, that basement across the street, I mean just the atmosphere — it’s so much better coming here.”

Over and over again, people said the opening of the new hall was perfectly timed.

“This gives us hope for when this period is over,” said Leeworth Robateau, 23, an artist who walks dogs for a living. “It seems like New York is preparing itself for a new world.”

NYguy Feb 21, 2021 8:53 PM

Some of the improvements around Penn Sration, including a train hall on site 2...
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SammyBaby Feb 24, 2021 7:15 AM

The following solution is fool proof: At one time a new enclosed stadium was being considered to be built on a deck to be constructed over the yet to be developed western portion of the hudson yards. That never occurred, but since then, the 7 train extension has been built, the convention center has been expanded and a major retail shopping hub has been built on the eastern portion of hudson yards, making this a 100% accessible by public transportation business destination and playland. SOLUTION: build a new Madison Square Garden on a deck over the western portion of the hudson yards, across the street from the convention center with an underground pedestrian tunnel that connects to the 34th street 7 train station. THEN: Tear down the old Madison Square Garden and 2 Penn Plaza leaving a completely leveled super block from 33rd to 31st Street between 7th and 8th Avenues and build the new above and below ground Penn station there. It's a win win situation. A new Penn Station on the original Penn Station footprint and a new Madison Square Garden in the city's hottest growing business and entertainment hub, all fully accessible by underground public transportation. The only thing in the way is Governor Cuomo's and his cronies egos!

NYguy Feb 24, 2021 7:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SammyBaby (Post 9199263)
The following solution is fool proof: At one time a new enclosed stadium was being considered to be built on a deck to be constructed over the yet to be developed western portion of the hudson yards. That never occurred, but since then, the 7 train extension has been built, the convention center has been expanded and a major retail shopping hub has been built on the eastern portion of hudson yards, making this a 100% accessible by public transportation business destination and playland. SOLUTION: build a new Madison Square Garden on a deck over the western portion of the hudson yards, across the street from the convention center with an underground pedestrian tunnel that connects to the 34th street 7 train station. THEN: Tear down the old Madison Square Garden and 2 Penn Plaza leaving a completely leveled super block from 33rd to 31st Street between 7th and 8th Avenues and build the new above and below ground Penn station there. It's a win win situation. A new Penn Station on the original Penn Station footprint and a new Madison Square Garden in the city's hottest growing business and entertainment hub, all fully accessible by underground public transportation. The only thing in the way is Governor Cuomo's and his cronies egos!


Won't happen. The stadium proposal worked because it was an expansion of the Javits Center, and would host a relatively few number of games on the weekends. MSG is a different animal, with virutually nightly performances. The convenience of NJ Transit, LIRR, multiple subway lines, the PATH, and the coming Metro-North make it the prime site for such an arena, even though it's just a few blocks away.

If they remove MSG, it will just be to replace it with more buildings. A fancy new train terminal built above the station does nothing to expand or improve the station itself, other than appearances (which it sorely needs). There's no reason they can't replace MSG with a new and better designed arena - in its current location.

citybooster Feb 24, 2021 9:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 9199828)
Won't happen. The stadium proposal worked because it was an expansion of the Javits Center, and would host a relatively few number of games on the weekends. MSG is a different animal, with virutually nightly performances. The convenience of NJ Transit, LIRR, multiple subway lines, the PATH, and the coming Metro-North make it the prime site for such an arena, even though it's just a few blocks away.

If they remove MSG, it will just be to replace it with more buildings. A fancy new train terminal built above the station does nothing to expand or improve the station itself, other than appearances (which it sorely needs). There's no reason they can't replace MSG with a new and better designed arena - in its current location.

If they could do that, build a better MSG that utilizes a better public experience with the station, I'm all for it. I just hope we've got creative enough people to make it happen. At least the likelihood of the removal of the Hulu Theater would make for a marked improvement.

k1052 Feb 24, 2021 9:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 9199828)
Won't happen. The stadium proposal worked because it was an expansion of the Javits Center, and would host a relatively few number of games on the weekends. MSG is a different animal, with virutually nightly performances. The convenience of NJ Transit, LIRR, multiple subway lines, the PATH, and the coming Metro-North make it the prime site for such an arena, even though it's just a few blocks away.

If they remove MSG, it will just be to replace it with more buildings. A fancy new train terminal built above the station does nothing to expand or improve the station itself, other than appearances (which it sorely needs). There's no reason they can't replace MSG with a new and better designed arena - in its current location.

I will be forever annoyed that they could not get the deal to move MSG into the Farley Annex which would have been perfect. Then tear down everything on block 781 to build a new station and provide multiple high rise development sites.

NYguy Mar 15, 2021 9:52 PM

https://nypost.com/2021/03/15/mta-wa...ut-moving-msg/

MTA floats plans to get more light in Penn Station without moving MSG


By David Meyer
March 15, 2021


Quote:

Transit officials are mulling proposals to bring more light into Penn Station’s dreary corridors — without having to move Madison Square Garden, according to a new report.

MTA exec Janno Lieber presented two concepts on Friday to “city, state, community and advocacy leaders,” the Wall Street Journal reported.

Under one proposal, 40 percent of the station’s upper level would be eliminated — creating a single-level facility with 40-foot-high ceilings. The concourses would be widened to make up for the lost capacity.

The other concept would keep the upper level in place but create an atrium in a former Amtrak waiting area. Both revamps would transform the station’s blueprint into a grid, the report said.
Quote:

” You are lost in this enclosed box,” Lieber told the WSJ. “What we want to do in either version is to open it up.”

Lieber did not provide a cost estimate for either proposal, the Journal said. He told the paper any Penn Station revamp could be funded as part of the $30 billion Gateway Program, which includes building a new tunnel under the Hudson River.

Penn Station is owned by Amtrak, whose president told the WSJ the railroad is working to develop a “consensus master plan” for the station, which served 600,000 people daily before the COVID-19 pandemic.
Quote:

Critics say Cuomo’s “Empire Station Complex” project — which also includes plans for 10 new skyscrapers — is being pushed through without oversight from the city or state legislature, The Post reported over the weekend.

Instead, the project is advised by a 13-member “Community Advisory Committee” — the group that heard Lieber’s presentation last week. The project will not undergo ULURP, or Uniform Land Use Review Procedure — a standardized process for public review of projects in the city.

State Sen. Brad Hoylman (D-Manhattan) — who reps much of the area surrounding the station, but not the station itself — told The Post that he and other elected officials skipped Friday’s meeting “in solidarity with our local community boards.”

State senate leadership declined to include a $1.3 billion bond for the project in their proposed budget released over the weekend, Hoylman said — defying Gov. Cuomo’s wishes.

“ There hasn’t been sufficient transparency and communication by the state with the public and the surrounding community about it,” Hoylman said.

“We’re trying to put the brakes on it until the community fully weighs in. They have to come to us for the money. What it looks like is they’re trying to ram this through — pay for it first and come up with the details later.”

chris08876 Mar 21, 2021 4:37 AM

Pic by me. Taken today.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...db2c70ce_k.jpg
Moynihan Station - 03-20-2021 by Christopher Estevez, on Flickr

Crawford Mar 21, 2021 2:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 9199945)
I will be forever annoyed that they could not get the deal to move MSG into the Farley Annex which would have been perfect. Then tear down everything on block 781 to build a new station and provide multiple high rise development sites.

MSG in the Farley annex would have largely destroyed the new Moynihan train hall and would have been a much smaller MSG than the current iteration. So it was a flawed alternative.

I agree that doing nothing is problematic too, but don't see the annex idea as an improvement.

NYguy Mar 21, 2021 6:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 9224369)
MSG in the Farley annex would have largely destroyed the new Moynihan train hall and would have been a much smaller MSG than the current iteration. So it was a flawed alternative.

I agree that doing nothing is problematic too, but don't see the annex idea as an improvement.



It would have been fine actuallt, the train hall would have been where it is today. The arena was to go in the non-landmarked portion of the building, which will now hold some Facebook offices. There were no capacity issues, but the Dolans wanted some MSG signage on the 8th Avenue side, which officials were having no part of.



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Model view.....


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Crawford Mar 21, 2021 9:17 PM

50% of Moynihan Station is the Western annex. So if they moved MSG to the Western Annex, Moynihan Station would be 50% smaller. It wouldn't have just replaced the office space, it would have replaced much of Moynihan Station itself.

And MSG would have been smaller. It's a smaller footprint. That was a huge sticking point with the Dolans.

mrnyc Mar 22, 2021 8:50 PM

i can see why a smaller train hall was not desired at the time, but now? and with msg out of the way opening things up? you wonder -- but you cannot replay history though.

as for that new msg, meh, the dolans could have been told to take it or leave it. a shame nobody had the stones.

k1052 Mar 23, 2021 1:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 9224620)
50% of Moynihan Station is the Western annex. So if they moved MSG to the Western Annex, Moynihan Station would be 50% smaller. It wouldn't have just replaced the office space, it would have replaced much of Moynihan Station itself.

And MSG would have been smaller. It's a smaller footprint. That was a huge sticking point with the Dolans.

This is incorrect as demonstrated above by NYguy's post. The annex is not part of the transit complex (above track level) and putting MSG in it would not have impacted the train hall.


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