SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Found City Photos (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=23)
-   -   noirish Los Angeles (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170279)

HossC Aug 21, 2014 10:46 PM

Re: Magritte's The Son of Man.

Hey, e_r, I hope you're getting on top of your computer problems, but if you ever decide to trade in your current machine for a MacBook, can I suggest this lid decal? Being an Apple, the logo in the middle lights up when it's on :).

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...tteMacBook.jpg
gypsytheories.blogspot.com


------------


BTW. I enjoyed the aerial railyard pictures, e_r. I had a look at Historic Aerials, and was surprised how many of them were extant in 1980.

ethereal_reality Aug 22, 2014 2:46 AM

:previous: That's such a fantastic design HossC. -and the apple lights up!



Detail from a very early stereoscope. (Is this Sonora Town? Wouldn't it be great to figure out where this school & kindergarten was located)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...909/qUx16A.jpg



reverse, with photographer's name.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...904/SkbLNH.jpg




-as it appeared on ebay.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800...673/xw9LGg.jpg


__

ethereal_reality Aug 22, 2014 3:30 AM

Earlier tonight, I came across this excellent photograph of a group of Los Angeles policemen in an old file of mine.
(notice the lone guy at far right studying a drawing)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/539/gE8z3b.jpg
http://www.badgehistory.com/

The statue of Stephen M. White (rear view in this photo) was originally located at Temple and Broadway on the lawn of the old county courthouse,
but at some point in time it was relocated to the corner of 1st & Hill.




http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/539/1tpJl5.jpg
water and power


Today the statue is located at the entrance to Cabrillo Beach. (Mr. White was an advocate for San Pedro's deep harbor)
http://www.lacountyarts.org/civicart...rilloBeach.htm


__

ethereal_reality Aug 22, 2014 4:17 AM

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/905/RZvZen.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640...913/ZQKYnR.jpg

sadykadie2 Aug 22, 2014 4:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6697806)
The Royal Palms Apts. 1419 S. Wilton Place.*

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/674/qPwfgX.jpg
http://photos.lapl.org/carlweb/jsp/F...olNumber=30521




I found this at 1419 S. Wilton Place, so I was pretty bummed.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...911/AuZaQp.jpg
GSV



..but as I turned the google-mobile around I noticed an apartment building down the street.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...909/9jhiGB.jpg
GSV



Sure enough....it was the Royal Palms. :)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...746/eI7G3a.jpg
GSV


This Royal Palms not to be confused with the old Royal Palms Hotel on Westlake.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=19289

and the Westlake Royal Palms was originally the Concordia Club, an exclusive Jewish club.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=19290
__


* I went back and double checked the library archive, the address is now listed as 1518 South Wilton Place.
(I swear it said 1419 when I saved it to my file)
__

Good find ER! I, too drove the Google mobile around to find the apts

Wig-Wag Aug 22, 2014 5:17 AM

LA Rail Yards
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6700662)
Thanks for identifying my mystery building HH and HossC. -much appreciated!:)

While searching for additional information I came across this series of annotated aerials at http://ctr.trains.com/~/media/Files/...930s%20BEV.pdf

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/904/GDPdJ5.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/909/vFLtZp.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/631/n5rc9Q.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/745/cmXCYm.jpg
http://ctr.trains.com/~/media/Files/...930s%20BEV.pdf




http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/909/cPCNa5.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/912/w2mZg5.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/673/K6HJ6E.jpg
http://ctr.trains.com/~/media/Files/...930s%20BEV.pdf




http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/dyOxFF.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/902/P6yCru.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/909/L6dVAM.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/eJORyf.jpg
http://ctr.trains.com/~/media/Files/...930s%20BEV.pdf


___


ER, Thanks for posting these. For some time I have been meaning to expand on an early discussion on NLA regarding the mystery of the Bullring/Cornfield yard. The photos and associated keys in your post do it better than I ever could.

Cheers,
Jack

FredH Aug 22, 2014 8:05 AM

ER - I also enjoyed those aerial photos you posted. Great find! When I looked at this photo, something caught my eye from a discussion
on the thread a couple of years ago.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...psd1385710.jpg
http://ctr.trains.com/~/media/Files/...930s%20BEV.pdf


In the upper left corner of the photo is the area that was the original Calvary Cemetery on Broadway, where many of the pioneer families of
Los Angeles were buried. In the late 1800's a new Calvary Cemetery was opened on Whittier Blvd. Bodies buried in the original cemetery
were all supposed to be moved by 1928, but sloppy record keeping and other problems caused the date to be missed. A look at this 1934
photo seems to indicate that the relocation was still wrapping up.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...psd04fe740.jpg
http://ctr.trains.com/~/media/Files/...930s%20BEV.pdf


The old cemetery site is now the location of Cathedral High School

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps45dfb326.jpg
Google Maps


A nice history of the old Calvary Cemetery is here:

http://www.ladowntownnews.com/news/t...f0ed1c0d3.html

HossC Aug 22, 2014 8:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6701050)

Detail from a very early stereoscope. (Is this Sonora Town? Wouldn't it be great to figure out where this school & kindergarten was located)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...909/qUx16A.jpg

The kindergarten is George Lehman's Round House on Main Street. I think most of the available pictures of the Round House have already appeared on NLA, so I've picked out two of them from one of Flyingwedge's previous posts - the full post (with many more pictures and loads of extra information) can be seen here. The first picture appears to be a cropped version of the stereoscope image. A larger version of the second picture was previously posted by e_r in post #2723 (the USC image can be found here).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyingwedge (Post 6111070)

Cactus tree on Main Street side with kindergarten sign at left:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...psabc9a5df.jpg
LAPL - http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics09/00014091.jpg

Here's another view of an 1886 photo T2 posted earlier http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=14219 showing the Round House and, on the right, possibly the first brick building in LA:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0e8a8295.jpg
CA State Library - http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...IG96L1TS5N.jpg


Tourmaline Aug 22, 2014 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6694676)
It's definitely not a poster Martin_Pal. If you go back to BRR's original post you will see that the horizontal 'lines' appear in the window next to the boy as well.

originally posted by BifRayRock
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/631/eAM8I8.jpg

__


The horizontal lines could be a table top or chair backs per the interior apartment photo seen in the original post. Could also be a reflection from the other side of the street or something on La Brea.

As for the boy, some say he appeared with Michael Caine in The Cider House Rules.

http://www.malcolminthemiddle.co.uk/...s_2_MITMVC.jpghttp://www.malcolminthemiddle.co.uk/...s_2_MITMVC.jpg

Others may believe he is a time traveler.
http://www.mnn.com/sites/default/fil...e-Future-4.jpghttp://www.mnn.com/sites/default/fil...e-Future-4.jpg


Some say he attended USC with Robert Stack but plans were changed at Normandy, or possibly Hürtgen forest.


USC quad. Undated, but apparently early '60s (?)
http://hdl.huntington.org/utils/ajax...XT=&DMROTATE=0http://hdl.huntington.org/utils/ajax...XT=&DMROTATE=0 http://hdl.huntington.org/cdm/single.../id/3108/rec/6

Any ID for this high rise under construction in upper left?
http://hdl.huntington.org/utils/ajax...XT=&DMROTATE=0http://hdl.huntington.org/utils/ajax...XT=&DMROTATE=0
http://hdl.huntington.org/utils/ajax...XT=&DMROTATE=0http://hdl.huntington.org/utils/ajax...XT=&DMROTATE=0

HossC Aug 22, 2014 2:26 PM

:previous:

HDL has this image labeled incorrectly - it's actually a south facing view of the UCLA campus not USC.

The high-rise buildings are on Wilshire Boulevard, and the following uses their current names. The most likely candidate for the building under construction is the Crown Towers at 10701 Wilshire Boulevard. That would make the light-colored building to its immediate right the Sterling Wilshire at 10717 Wilshire Boulevard. The high-rise just right of center is the Marie Antoinette at 10787 Wilshire Boulevard. I've tried to tie down their build dates, but have found conflicting information. The Marie Antoinette seems to have been first in 1962, with the Sterling Wilshire in 1966, but some sites list the Crown Towers as built in 1964, while others say 1972. The picture above appears to show that the Sterling Wilshire was completed before the Crown Towers, and both were complete when the 1968 Dick Whittington shot below was taken. The Crown Towers and Sterling Wilshire are roughly in the center, with the Marie Antoinette a couple of blocks west (left) along Wilshire. Today they're harder to pick out among all the newer high-rises!

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...s.jpg~original
USC Digital Library

Earl Boebert Aug 22, 2014 3:35 PM

Can't tell for sure, but it looks like the hotshot in the right lane coming our way is driving a Crosley Hotshot.

Cheers,

Earl

Wig-Wag Aug 22, 2014 4:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6701050)
: Detail from a very early stereoscope. (Is this Sonora Town? Wouldn't it be great to figure out where this school & kindergarten was located)__

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/102...909/qUx16A.jpg

Okay, has anyone noticed (cue the spooky music) the face in the cactus leaf?

Cheers,
Jack

ethereal_reality Aug 22, 2014 4:43 PM

:previous: Hmmm...try as I might I can't make out a face in the cactus leaves.
(but the little boy on the sidewalk gave me flashbacks of our little boy in the window)

I was getting ready to be a PNY 64gb flash-drive at the store today, but it only listed Windows 7 and MAC as being compatible. Would it work with Windows Vista?
I imagine it would, but I wanted to be sure.

MichaelRyerson Aug 22, 2014 5:07 PM

Pieces of my heart...
 
'I want you to come on, come on, come on, come on and take it,
Take it!
Take another little piece of my heart now, baby!
Oh, oh, break it!
Break another little bit of my heart now, darling, yeah, yeah, yeah.'

Janis


Bruno was short and used to hard work. He knew the railroads and the brickyards and the steel rimmed wagon wheel, the hand carts and the rag men, the drunks and the prostitutes, the gamblers and the con-men. Jack Johnson may have crossed these stones and perhaps Jim Jeffries too. And the ladies from Madame Van's.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5591/...af4cddf1_o.jpgMap of Bruno Street, Sanborn fire insurance map, 1906

Shows the relationship to the Union Warehouse (formerly Naud's Warehouse until 1906) which will burn to the ground in September, 1915.

from Big Orange Landmarks, Floyd B. Bariscale



https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5572/...14665a39_c.jpgLooking northwest across Bruno Street between Main Street and Alameda, 2011

General view of the granite paving stones of Bruno Street with Alameda crossing at the far end of the street and the Gold Line above. In this area Main Street (behind the camera) is actually east of Alameda. The granite paving stones have been in-place at least a century.



https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3881/...15969695_c.jpgBruno, 2013

This is a view of the granite cobblestones of Bruno Street which date to the early twentieth century. Unlike fired or red paving bricks these are hand-hewn from solid granite and have lasted quite without apparent wear over a hundred years. May they be in-place for another hundred. What company or what individual was responsible for producing these paving stones is lost to history. Claude B. Bariscale estimates their installation to 1913. I've asked him for a source for that date (as it seems somewhat late to me) but haven't heard back.

personal collection



https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3870/...24fe4b2a_c.jpgBruno II

Periodically, in their wisdom, the Street Department feels the need to uproot parts of Bruno Street in the process of top dressing the roadbed with asphalt. I was able to retrieve these two for my modest collection of Los Angelesiana. The smaller brick is perfect in every way, small, squared off and hefty. One side (side nearest the camera) shows traffic wear and a bore hole from the quarry is apparent on an off-side. The larger stone (according to an older woman at Hollywood Beauty Supply) apparently was uprooted from an area of a gutter drain since closed off.
personal collection



https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3846/...f6e0820a_b.jpgBruno III

And lastly, a shot of what I image to be the bore hole (now filled with excess asphalt) with which the granite was quarried.
personal collection



And now to Mignonette...recently E-R talked about the Los Angeles Pressed Brick Company...


https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5571/...35d97d6a_b.jpgLos Angeles Pressed Brick Co.

Charlie Frost organized the Los Angeles Pressed Brick and Terra Cotta Company in 1887. The company office was located at 204 South Spring Street until 1896, when it was moved to 119 South Broadway. In 1900, the office was moved to the Frost Building at 145 Broadway. The entire sixth floor of the Frost Building was where the company had its products showroom. The original brickyard (shown here) was located on three acres of land at Cleveland and College (very near the French Hospital). They used clay taken from this location (and supplemented it with clay brought in from Riverside County) until they closed this yard in 1916 and moved into a new, expanded (13 acres!) operation on Date Street right where it makes that 90 degree turn to run up to Alhambra Street. Interestingly, at least to me, you can find the second yard by starting at the first yard at College and Cleveland and simply running your finger down the map (Baist 1921), (and in running your finger down College passing within a block of Bruno Street) following College to where it turns into Date Street. The Los Angeles Pressed Brick yard is south of Date Street.

In 1926, Howard Frost decided to retire and this caused a large block of his holdings to be transferred to the Gladding, McBean & Company, which took control of the Los Angeles Pressed Brick Company. Frost retained a large number of shares and remained a director for four more years. The offices of the two companies were combined on February 22, on the top floor of the Pacific Finance Building in Los Angeles. Atholl McBean became the new president, replacing Howard Frost, and F.B. Ortman the vice-president and general manager, replacing Richard D. Hatton. Gladding, McBean & Company allowed the Los Angeles Pressed Brick Company to continue to operate independently, except for the terra cotta sales, which Gladding, McBean & Company wanted to control. The total gross sales of the two companies were estimated to range between $6,000,000 and $7,000,000 annually. Gus Larson remained the plant manager of the company plants

image ebay via NLA founder e-r



Mignonette was somewhat longer and more refined than Bruno and sat at the western edge of what promised to be more fashionable homes as the city expanded west from Bunker Hill. She was meant for surreys and Packard automobiles. Less than two blocks from the Sam Kee Laundry on Figueroa Street it is likely Anna May Wong and her little sister would have steered their horse-drawn wagon through this intersection to pick up or deliver laundry on and around Court Circle.


Planned construction of a massive condo complex means the approaching loss of any physical evidence Mignonette ever actually existed...



https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5582/...a57d1778_c.jpgMignonette at Fremont, brick retrieval

Captain of the Brick Recovery Team indicates the precise location for other team members...


https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3867/...778a7209_c.jpg

Looking north toward Temple Street with Fremont on the right.

The construction is underway! Are we too late??


https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3877/...a1b096c2_b.jpgNLA Scout

At the northwest corner of Fremont and Mignonette...



https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3882/...aa311a64_c.jpgEvil construction trailers and a clue on the ground...

Initial reconnaissance turns up two large construction trailers and a friendly watchman...



https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3872/...42a8efee_b.jpgMignonette and Fremont brick recovery underway...

Members of the Brick Recovery Team begin the resurrection...note the brick recovery tool (maxi) in the upper left corner of the image...



Here is an image of one of the Los Angeles Pressed Brick Company's products...

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5559/...e0bc9ee1_o.jpgBrick, LAPBCo. paver-lugs

Brand name: L.A.P.B.CO. (many lugs)

Company: Los Angeles Pressed Brick Company

Location: Cloverfield and Colorado, Santa Monica, Los Angeles County, CA.

Operating Years: 1906-1926

Years Brick Made: unknown

Type: Paver

Description: Abbreviated company name impressed into the face between two rows of rectangular-shaped protruding lugs.

From Brickmakers



And here are the jewels we were able to pull from the intersection of Fremont and Mignonette...

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5556/...c8538c2f_b.jpgLos Angeles Pressed Brick Co., Mignonette

Interestingly, this one in the foreground actually has a radius which was placed in the roadbed near the curb to follow the curve of the road.


https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3910/...57e0f70b_b.jpgLos Angeles Pressed Brick Co., Mignonette II

Gently cleaned and placed in the morning sun to show the imprint and color of the brick.

personal collection


https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3883/...acb5a8c5_b.jpgBruno and Mignonette

Finis

CityBoyDoug Aug 22, 2014 5:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6701707)
:previous: Hmmm...try as I might I can't make out a face in the cactus leaves.
(but the little boy on the sidewalk gave me flashbacks of our little boy in the window)

I was getting ready to be a PNY 64gb flash-drive at the store today, but it only listed Windows 7 and MAC as being compatible. Would it work with Windows Vista?
I imagine it would, but I wanted to be sure.

When my old computer started to go south on me a few years ago, I got the idea to increase the memory [that'll make it run better.]. I wasted several hundred dollars on that idea. The old PC just could not handle the added memory. I finally realized that I really needed a new computer and of course the system upgrade that came with the new PC.

ethereal_reality Aug 22, 2014 5:35 PM

Great post MichaelRyerson!
Loved your imaginative captions....you actually made a story about bricks extremely exciting.

__

HossC Aug 22, 2014 6:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6701707)

I was getting ready to be a PNY 64gb flash-drive at the store today, but it only listed Windows 7 and MAC as being compatible. Would it work with Windows Vista?
I imagine it would, but I wanted to be sure.

If it's the latest spec (USB 3.0), then there may not be any Vista drivers available. It should still work with on your system, but will not run at full speed (I'd guess that your computer only has USB 2.0 ports, so the new flash drives wouldn't run at full speed even if you installed Windows 7 or 8). I did a quick Google, and didn't find any warnings about using PNY flash drives with Vista.

Put simply: it should work, but don't expect to get the quoted transfer speed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CityBoyDoug (Post 6701774)

When my old computer started to go south on me a few years ago, I got the idea to increase the memory [that'll make it run better.]. I wasted several hundred dollars on that idea. The old PC just could not handle the added memory. I finally realized that I really needed a new computer and of course the system upgrade that came with the new PC.

Some computers are sold with an inadequate amount of memory to keep costs down, and I have seen many occasions where adding memory has made a huge difference. I wouldn't run Vista on less than 2GB of RAM, and 3GB is better (the most common version of Vista is 32-bit, so it won't recognize any more). Having space on your hard drive can also make a big difference to performance - maybe it's time to clear out some old junk!

Having said that, there will always be a day when there's no option other than to replace your old computer.

Wig-Wag Aug 22, 2014 6:24 PM

Bruno Street Paving Stones
 
[QUOTE=MichaelRyerson;]Bruno was short and used to hard work. He knew the railroads and the brickyards and the steel rimmed wagon wheel, the hand carts and the rag men, the drunks and the prostitutes, the gamblers and the con-men. Jack Johnson may have crossed these stones and perhaps Jim Jeffries too. And the ladies from Madame Van's.

General view of the granite paving stones of Bruno Street with Alameda crossing at the far end of the street and the Gold Line above. In this area Main Street (behind the camera) is actually east of Alameda. The granite paving stones have been in-place at least a century.

This is a view of the granite cobblestones of Bruno Street which date to the early twentieth century. Unlike fired or red paving bricks these are hand-hewn from solid granite and have lasted quite without apparent wear over a hundred years. May they be in-place for another hundred. What company or what individual was responsible for producing these paving stones is lost to history. Claude B. Bariscale estimates their installation to 1913. I've asked him for a source for that date (as it seems somewhat late to me) but haven't heard back.[/QUOTE]

personal collection

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3870/...24fe4b2a_c.jpgBruno II
[/QUOTE]

Michael, some years back I recall reading that many of the paving stones used in this area of the City came over as ballast is sailing ships that were abandoned in San Pedro during the gold rush by their crews. I suppose a knowledgeable geologist could identify the type of stone and where it was quarried.

I have a friend who salvaged a great many such stones from Prudence Street when the City eliminated it back in the 1980's. He would come down on weekends when the work crews were absent, load up his pickup and cart them back to his place near Bakersfield where he reused them for paths in his garden. Those stones are generally a medium to dark grey and much more worn and rounded than your examples.

I would be nice if we could verify the ballast story!

Cheers,
Jack

CityBoyDoug Aug 22, 2014 7:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HossC (Post 6701807)
If it's the latest spec (USB 3.0), then there may not be any Vista drivers available. It should still work with on your system, but will not run at full speed (I'd guess that your computer only has USB 2.0 ports, so the new flash drives wouldn't run at full speed even if you installed Windows 7 or 8). I did a quick Google, and didn't find any warnings about using PNY flash drives with Vista.

Put simply: it should work, but don't expect to get the quoted transfer speed.



Some computers are sold with an inadequate amount of memory to keep costs down, and I have seen many occasions where adding memory has made a huge difference. I wouldn't run Vista on less than 2GB of RAM, and 3GB is better (the most common version of Vista is 32-bit, so it won't recognize any more). Having space on your hard drive can also make a big difference to performance - maybe it's time to clear out some old junk!

Having said that, there will always be a day when there's no option other than to replace your old computer.

Thanks Hoss for posting your updated info.
I really learned the hard way by trying to upgrade my old computer. Old computers are really not as sturdy and versatile as newer models are.

Most computer techs will add on memory to your old computer and take your money. If they were honest they would tell you to buy a new computer but of course they need your repair money. As I said before, I learned my lesson the old fashioned hard way. :(:D:(

MichaelRyerson Aug 22, 2014 7:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wig-Wag (Post 6701847)
[QUOTE=MichaelRyerson;]Michael, some years back I recall reading that many of the paving stones used in this area of the City came over as ballast is sailing ships that were abandoned in San Pedro during the gold rush by their crews. I suppose a knowledgeable geologist could identify the type of stone and where it was quarried.

I have a friend who salvaged a great many such stones from Prudence Street when the City eliminated it back in the 1980's. He would come down on weekends when the work crews were absent, load up his pickup and cart them back to his place near Bakersfield where he reused them for paths in his garden. Those stones are generally a medium to dark grey and much more worn and rounded than your examples.

I would be nice if we could verify the ballast story!

Cheers,
Jack

Yes, it would be great. I'd love to know where they came from. When I first saw Claude's post on Bruno Street I suggested to him they might have originated in San Pedro and, there being a wealth of them down there, subsequently found their way up to us. Assuming you meant to say 'Prudent Street' that would mean the stones in your friend's garden are likely first cousins of my Bruno stones.


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:14 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.