SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Transportation (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=25)
-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

twister244 Jul 9, 2024 5:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomarandlee (Post 10241746)
Not extending the ATS tracks over the NCS tracks a few hundred feet during the new car rental facility building is still one of the most shockingly idiotic planning fails I can fathom.

Agreed, but could they do it still? Just re-route the tracks to the facility for a connection, then back to the normal tracks? Re-route from just South of the facility to the connection, the gradually back up to the normal route.

ardecila Jul 9, 2024 5:32 PM

It's too late to extend the ATS, but it would be much cheaper to just build a nice enclosed passage through the CONRAC garage and a Metra concourse over the tracks like Newark has. It's only about 700' walk if they can make it a straight shot, instead of going down to street level and around the garage.

Of course, there's no point to spending that kind of money for the current pathetic service levels on the NCS. The NCS is neither a busy commuter route or an intercity route, so the only reason to upgrade the station is if Metra makes a commitment to a robust O'Hare Express service.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34 (Post 10241678)
HOLY SHIT! At the Illinois Senate Transportation hearing, Metra said they'll experiment with hourly O'Hare-Union Station service for 10 days during the DNC. They eventually want 15-minute frequency. Metra also said, if they get more funding, they may consider a circumferential route like the STAR Line

I can't believe I'm saying this, but God bless Metra

Lots of people pushing for the O'Hare Express behind the scenes, including Rep. Quigley. Honestly I don't blame Illinois Dems to trying to keep visiting delegates off the CTA while the service is a dumpster fire.

twister244 Jul 9, 2024 5:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 10241766)
It's too late to extend the ATS, but it would be much cheaper to just build a nice enclosed passage through the CONRAC garage and a Metra concourse over the tracks like Newark has. It's only about 700' walk if they can make it a straight shot, instead of going down to street level and around the garage.

Of course, there's no point to spending that kind of money for the current service levels on the NCS.

Why is it too late? If the demand was there, couldn't they just do something like this?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...317ed675_z.jpg

Randomguy34 Jul 9, 2024 6:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 10241766)
It's too late to extend the ATS, but it would be much cheaper to just build a nice enclosed passage through the CONRAC garage and a Metra concourse over the tracks like Newark has. It's only about 700' walk if they can make it a straight shot, instead of going down to street level and around the garage.

Sen. Durbin & Duckworth and Rep. Quigley secured $4.8 million to upgrade O'Hare Transfer for "a covered and lit ADA-compliant walkway from Metra’s O’Hare Transfer Station and the entrance of the O’Hare Multimodal Facility and Airport Transit System station". No renderings yet but if it's supposed to connected directly to the ATS station, which is several floors up, and be ADA compliant it'll probably look something like this sketch from the HSRA

https://www.hsrail.org/wp-content/up...er-station.jpg

Appropriations spreadsheet: https://appropriations.house.gov/sit...d-3.6.2024.pdf
Press Release: https://www.duckworth.senate.gov/new...ckworth-durbin

VKChaz Jul 10, 2024 3:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34 (Post 10241845)
Sen. Durbin & Duckworth and Rep. Quigley secured $4.8 million to upgrade O'Hare Transfer for "a covered and lit ADA-compliant walkway from Metra’s O’Hare Transfer Station and the entrance of the O’Hare Multimodal Facility and Airport Transit System station". No renderings yet but if it's supposed to connected directly to the ATS station, which is several floors up, and be ADA compliant it'll probably look something like this sketch from the HSRA

https://www.hsrail.org/wp-content/up...er-station.jpg

Appropriations spreadsheet: https://appropriations.house.gov/sit...d-3.6.2024.pdf
Press Release: https://www.duckworth.senate.gov/new...ckworth-durbin

It doesn't quite appear this way, but a dedicated concourse with people mover, etc. could be a nice seamless experience. Separately, is there room for the additional tracks and platforms envisioned long term?

OhioGuy Jul 10, 2024 11:06 PM

Very random question, but has there ever been any legitimate discussion of extending the pink line back to Berwyn considering the original right-of-way still exists all the way to Oak Park Avenue? I suppose there would probably be a fair amount of NIMBY angst from those with homes adjacent to the right-of-way but I was curious if either the CTA or the city of Berwyn have ever indicated any potential interest? (granted there are other areas where rail expansion probably makes more sense from a cost/benefit perspective)

Busy Bee Jul 11, 2024 1:24 AM

^I don't know, but the fact that both Cicero and Berwyn have purposefully managed to preserve it is a good sign that those two town's planning dept's have made serious efforts in case some day a serious extension proposal is contemplated.

It's important to remember that even when the Douglas branch ran all the way to Oak Park Ave, until 1952 I believe, the right of way was pretty primitive with shack style "stations" and irregular partial service patterns. That doesn't really mean anything for the future though, but it is undeniable it is not ideal to extend an at-grade 600v rapid transit line in 2024. It would be pretty contentious with vocal advocates and opponents. And the opponents would have good reason to be concerned as the extension would effectively create a north-south barrier to/from Cermak Road.

Ideally a trenched alignment could be constructed which would solve vehicular and pedestrian circulation, major aesthetic as well as safety concerns but would likely come at 2+ times the cost. I would imagine most residents, property owners and stakeholders would be vehemitely opposed to an elevated structure on visual grounds alone.

left of center Jul 11, 2024 1:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioGuy (Post 10242999)
Very random question, but has there ever been any legitimate discussion of extending the pink line back to Berwyn considering the original right-of-way still exists all the way to Oak Park Avenue? I suppose there would probably be a fair amount of NIMBY angst from those with homes adjacent to the right-of-way but I was curious if either the CTA or the city of Berwyn have ever indicated any potential interest? (granted there are other areas where rail expansion probably makes more sense from a cost/benefit perspective)

Coming from someone who grew up in the Berwyn area, I would absolutely love that. Unfortunately, I believe it's a non starter. Much of that right of way has been converted to parking (which in a very dense yet still somewhat car centric area like Berwyn, people would fight tooth and nail to keep) as well as public parks. No politician would want to stick their necks out for this project and risk being run out of office.

Like much of the decommissioning of CTA transit lines in the 50s-60s, shortening the Pink Line was unfortunately sad and very short sighted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 10243102)
^I don't know, but the fact that both Cicero and Berwyn have purposefully managed to preserve it is a good sign that those two town's planning dept's have made serious efforts in case some day a serious extension proposal is contemplated.

It's important to remember that even when the Douglas branch ran all the way to Oak Park Ave, until 1952 I believe, the right of way was pretty primitive with shack style "stations" and irregular partial service patterns. That doesn't really mean anything for the future though, but it is undeniable it is not ideal to extend an at-grade 600v rapid transit line in 2024. It would be pretty contentious with vocal advocates and opponents. And the opponents would have good reason to be concerned as the extension would effectively create a north-south barrier to/from Cermak Road.

Ideally a trenched alignment could be constructed which would solve vehicular and pedestrian circulation, major aesthetic as well as safety concerns but would likely come at 2+ times the cost. I would imagine most residents, property owners and stakeholders would be vehemitely opposed to an elevated structure on visual grounds alone.

I too admit that having ground level transit isn't the best situation. The Pink Line runs on surface level after Keeler, and if we somehow got federal funds to extend the Pink Line, I would imagine elevating it all the way would be a part of that. However, I think elevated would be more feasible than trenching, both from a cost perspective as well as physical logistics. The Pink Line ROW is a fairly tight squeeze, so the sort of trench you need would basically be an uncovered tunnel (as opposed to the Yellow Line trench for instance, which is much wider and allows for a gradual slop up to ground level). That said, your concerns about the locals objecting are very valid, although I think they would be against it regardless of the path you chose. No one wants to suddenly find out they will be living adjacent to an active train line, and deal with the noise pollution and potentially lower property values as a result.

Tcmetro Jul 11, 2024 10:25 AM

An elevated rebuild and extension makes the most sense, especially given the recent success of the Red Line rebuild from Lawrence to Bryn Mawr.

I think it could be extended to Harlem and tied into a redevelopment plan for the North Riverside Park Mall area. Not sure if Hines VA is a large enough driver of ridership for the Pink Line to make it all the way out there, but should at least be considered.

Randomguy34 Jul 11, 2024 5:29 PM

The Cermak Pulse Line should help build ridership to justify a future Pink Line extension by providing BRT-lite service. Disappointing though that won't start service till 2029 :(

https://i.imgur.com/wkG4FNY.png
https://www.pacebus.com/sites/defaul...ter2023-24.pdf

aaron38 Jul 11, 2024 5:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34 (Post 10241678)
HOLY SHIT! At the Illinois Senate Transportation hearing, Metra said they'll experiment with hourly O'Hare-Union Station service for 10 days during the DNC. They eventually want 15-minute frequency.

So this will be an express, with no local stops? I do have to ask, at least for the DNC, since all the activity will be at the United Center, wouldn't it make sense to have a stop at Western also? Wouldn't add much time to the overall trip, and a lot of people may want to just taxi from Western straight to the United Center, and skip the Union Station crowds.

OhioGuy Jul 11, 2024 6:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron38 (Post 10243545)
So this will be an express, with no local stops? I do have to ask, at least for the DNC, since all the activity will be at the United Center, wouldn't it make sense to have a stop at Western also? Wouldn't add much time to the overall trip, and a lot of people may want to just taxi from Western straight to the United Center, and skip the Union Station crowds.

I doubt many people flying into O'Hare are going directly from there to the United Center. They'll likely be staying at downtown hotels and will drop their luggage off.

SIGSEGV Jul 11, 2024 7:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcmetro (Post 10243226)
An elevated rebuild and extension makes the most sense, especially given the recent success of the Red Line rebuild from Lawrence to Bryn Mawr.

I think it could be extended to Harlem and tied into a redevelopment plan for the North Riverside Park Mall area. Not sure if Hines VA is a large enough driver of ridership for the Pink Line to make it all the way out there, but should at least be considered.

A guy on my floor is a resident at Loyola MC. I'm pretty sure he takes the pink line and bikes the rest of the way...

Mr Downtown Jul 11, 2024 8:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34 (Post 10241678)
hourly O'Hare-Union Station service for 10 days during the DNC.

I predict up to 10 riders per trip.

Hi! Welcome to Chicago! Just go up and over to the ATS, ride it to the MMF, walk another 600 ft to the train, wait an average of 30 minutes outside, heft your roller bag up the bilevel's steps, then ride for 39 minutes to get sort-of downtown, then get a taxi from CUS to your Michigan Ave hotel.

Or you can take the Blue Line right here every 7-10 min.

Nouvellecosse Jul 11, 2024 8:52 PM

Hourly does seem a bit impractical unless the timing just happens to align really well with when someone wants to leave.

Randomguy34 Jul 11, 2024 9:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron38 (Post 10243545)
So this will be an express, with no local stops? I do have to ask, at least for the DNC, since all the activity will be at the United Center, wouldn't it make sense to have a stop at Western also? Wouldn't add much time to the overall trip, and a lot of people may want to just taxi from Western straight to the United Center, and skip the Union Station crowds.

There will be intermediate stops at Western and River Grove: https://schedules.metrarail.com/pdf/...2407101421.pdf

ardecila Jul 12, 2024 3:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34 (Post 10241845)
Sen. Durbin & Duckworth and Rep. Quigley secured $4.8 million to upgrade O'Hare Transfer for "a covered and lit ADA-compliant walkway from Metra’s O’Hare Transfer Station and the entrance of the O’Hare Multimodal Facility and Airport Transit System station". No renderings yet but if it's supposed to connected directly to the ATS station, which is several floors up, and be ADA compliant it'll probably look something like this sketch from the HSRA

Appropriations spreadsheet: https://appropriations.house.gov/sit...d-3.6.2024.pdf
Press Release: https://www.duckworth.senate.gov/new...ckworth-durbin

Hate to say it but $4.8M is nowhere near enough to build what is shown in the rendering. It's possible this money is just for Phase 1/2 (planning/design) but if this is the whole enchilada, then the best we will get is some prefab canopy cover installed over the existing sidewalk, straight from a Florida high school parking lot. Should be lovely in the winter.

https://i.ibb.co/m6pp2tZ/cantilievered-canopies1.jpg


Quote:

Originally Posted by VKChaz (Post 10242536)
It doesn't quite appear this way, but a dedicated concourse with people mover, etc. could be a nice seamless experience. Separately, is there room for the additional tracks and platforms envisioned long term?

Anything is possible in theory but no, there is not enough room for 6 tracks + 2 platforms like the rendering shows, which also looks a bit like Metra Electric's wide corridor. The rail ROW at O'Hare Transfer is only 75' instead of the usual 100', so it's already pinched. You'd have to deck over / reroute Willow Creek to expand it which is a nonstarter. I'd be surprised if they even have room for a fourth track.

aaron38 Jul 12, 2024 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 10243909)
Should be lovely in the winter.

Looks fine to me. If none of us are supposed to own cars and garages and we're supposed to walk everywhere, well 95% of that is unsheltered. Why should mass transit be any different?

ardecila Jul 12, 2024 2:42 PM

Well, this would be a gateway to the city for many thousands of visitors, and most of them will not be accustomed to Chicago weather.

I think we can mange to get people from an airplane to a Metra train and then to Union Station without making them walk thru the cold.

aaron38 Jul 12, 2024 3:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 10244103)
Well, this would be a gateway to the city for many thousands of visitors, and most of them will not be accustomed to Chicago weather.

I think we can mange to get people from an airplane to a Metra train and then to Union Station without making them walk thru the cold.

And after Union Station?
Call it "cultural immersion" and pocket the savings.


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:03 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.