SkyscraperPage Forum - SAN FRANCISCO | 77 Beale St | 1,225 FT

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)

- Proposals (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=361)

- - SAN FRANCISCO | 77 Beale St | 1,225 FT | ? FLOORS (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=249337)

SAN FRANCISCO | 77 Beale St | 1,225 FT | ? FLOORS

Quote:

50 Main Street To Become Second Tallest Tower In San Francisco
BY: ANDREW NELSON 5:30 AM ON DECEMBER 15, 2021

Hines has announced that 50 Main Street will rise 1,066 feet tall, potentially becoming the second tallest structure in San Francisco. If built as proposed, the residential tower will be just four feet shorter than the Salesforce Tower. 50 Main Street, to be designed by Foster + Partners, is part of the 200 Mission Street campus, formerly the SoMa headquarters for PG&E.

Hines is proposing to redevelop the historic PG&E campus set in downtown San Francisco with offices, the multi-family tower with affordable housing, retail, and a porous ground-floor network of public open space and 1.25 acres for public parks. The newly designed block will reinvigorate an area in the city’s heart, immediately next to the Embarcadero BART Station. The project will be split between four components, including 50 Main Street, the reskinning of 77 Beale Street, refurbishing the historic office building along Market Street, and creating the ground-level network of parks and pathways.

50 Main Street will rise 85 floors to create nearly one million square feet, approximately 800 new rental apartments, of which a fifth will be offered as affordable housing. Initial plans show that parking will be included for 380 vehicles. Unit sizes will range from studios to two bedrooms. Amenities will be included on the top two floors, with retail at the base. Residents will be given excellent access to open-air with natural light between the shared amenities and access to the base level parks.

With an overall height of 1,066 feet tall, 50 Main Street could become San Francisco’s second supertall skyscraper . . . .

Foster + Partners, founded by Norman Foster, is the project architect in charge of design. While information about the aesthetic is limited, one can glean some information from the following comment on 50 Main Street by Norman Foster himself:

“50 Main is part of the reimagining of an entire city block, providing a hub of community within the East Cut district’s ongoing transformation into a welcoming, vibrant mixed-use neighborhood in the heart of San Francisco. A beacon of sustainable design with a redwood forest at its base, the residential tower seeks to blend with the undulating skyline of the city, while offering a unique vision that is expressive of its time, complementary to its historic context, and looks firmly toward the future” . . . .

While 50 Main Street will be the crown jewel of Hines’ development, the offices will span even more space. Between two components, Hines will add 1.6 million square feet of modernized office space to the region’s market between two components.

The first of the two office projects will be the restoration and renovation of the 600,000 square foot office building at 215-245 Market Street. The Pacific Gas and Electric Company General Office Building and Annex were built between 1923 and 1925 in a Beaux-Arts style by the architects Bakewell & Brown. The historic facade and lobby will be retained, while the rest of the structure’s internal systems and technologies will be updated with state-of-the-art functionality and sustainability.

The second office project is 77 Beale Street. Pickard Chilton will be responsible for reskinning the historic office building, designed by the 1960s by Hertzka and Knowles. The new design will bulge out from the original envelop with curtain-wall glass, adding nearly 25,000 square feet of new office space. The 34-story building will include over a million square feet of office space and is to be renamed 200 Mission Street.

Hines will also be seeking LEED Platinum certification. 200 Mission will include new MEP systems, modern glass technology, and facade-integrated solar panels, all to reduce energy consumption and increase natural light for office workers.

The following is a caption from the press release:

Led by Pickard Chilton, the future-facing design will feature a glistening crystalline skin that will be an iconic moment in the city’s skyline and a welcoming beacon within the heart of the city. At the top of the tower, tenants will be able to enjoy a ‘Sky Garden’ with mature trees and open green space. The ‘Sky Garden’ will provide a space for tenants to work, gather and reflect.

The final character for the 200 Mission Street Campus is the open space, inviting the public in, establishing a new environment for the urban fabric. Across the whole 3.5-acre property, 1.25 acres will become publicly accessible green space. With PWP Landscape Architecture responsible for this area, the firm is tasked to design a place where nature and urban life coexist.

The public parks will include the Grove, or the Sequoia Court, in the inner court of 245 Market Street. ‘The Amphitheater’ will be a terraced performance and gathering space next to 50 Main Street, while The overlook will be an elevated public space with connected retail around 200 Mission. Facing Beale Street, the existing entryway to 77 Beale will become ‘The Commons’, with a water feature and public recreation area covered with trees. Lastly, the ground lobby of 200 Mission will create the Winter Garden, a public space enhanced with greenery.

The Principal of PWP, Peter Walker, commented on the project, sharing that “the Sequoia Court will provide a unique kind of space for San Francisco. Not quite a park or square—it will be a court of activities at street level, planted in redwoods, surrounded by urban social activities, 24/7. A soft, quiet beautiful place providing sophisticated public services with special amenities and lighting to the offices and residences.”

Construction is expected to begin by 2023, with the final price tag not yet revealed. That said, it’s safe to assume 200 Mission Street will cost billions. Hines is currently involved with interested parties engaging with the entitlement process. Once complete, Hines believes the project will “reimagine and breathe new life into an irreplaceable, transit-oriented location that spans an entire city block.”

(50 Main St. site)
https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2...ion-Google-Satellite-image-via-Hines.jpg

(Campus with 3 primary buildings)
https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2...-illustration-by-Foster-and-Partners.jpg

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2...-Campus-rendering-by-Pickard-Chilton.jpg

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2...n-space-rendering-by-Pickard-Chilton.jpg

(Reskinned 77 Beale St)
https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2...7-Beale-rendering-by-Pickard-Chilton.jpg

https://sfyimby.com/2021/12/50-main-street-to-become-second-tallest-tower-in-san-francisco.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 9477398)

Nice! But why 4 feet shy of the current tallest? :shrug:

As you can see, the block encompassing this project is in a 400 ft height zone:

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render/00-...Ogg?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium&ts=1639598383
https://sfplanning.org/resource/zoning-height-and-bulk-districts

They probably are having to use state and city density bonuses to get it to 1000 ft and there's a good chance it may not survive at that height through the planning process. I can't see much chance it could go higher.

A near-twin for S.F.’s Salesforce Tower? That’s what one developer wants to build 3 blocks away:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/A-near-twin-for-S-F-s-Salesforce-Tower-16702552.php

Hopefully this gets built to its newly proposed height. Didn't think SF would be getting another supertall this soon (or ever).

And while it's easy to get excited about the new height, I do also want to point out that the project seems to include a good amount of open public use spaces, creating an inviting environment for pedestrians to wander in and enjoy. Top notch street level interaction.

Yes, this is quite a major change. I was satisfied with the original 800 ft proposal but this is a game changer. I don’t want to rehash , but another 35 ft or so, and they will be taller than that “pencil stick” building in LA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theskysthelimit (Post 9477652)

but another 35 ft or so, and they will be taller than that “pencil stick” building in LA.

yeah, just 35 more measly feet to claim the "tallest west of chicago" title.

and they could even do it honestly, with actual roof height ;)

^^I'll never understand why they don't put other proposals in these renderings to give a truer understanding of what to expect. In this case, Oceanwide Center, which I'm pretty sure will eventually be finished, and 750 Howard (Parcel F) should be in the rendering also. Actually, I think both of those have a better chance of being built as proposed than this project does.

All of you are so right. Another measly 35+ feet with either a crown or spire would totally be awesome. Yeah 800 ft was acceptable...but come on, to be that close to having the tallest west of Chicago? Why the hell not! Hope Hines and Foster+Partners give us that 1,101 ft tower. Just hope it doesn't get shortened from the proposed 1066 ft.

OMG ! mt climber13 great find! Yes ! 50 Main St rendering looks like the Peerless Building from The Towering Inferno ! i knew i had seen somewhere before! Thank you!

The Towering Inferno!! Compare the special effects then and if they made a movie similar to it today.... or wait a minute.... I think they have!? Regarding this new proposal, I hope it get's built.

First official renderings have been released. This will also be known at Atlas Block.

Quote:

Hines Expects San Francisco Supertall At 50 Main Street To Open By 2027
BY: ANDREW NELSON 5:30 AM ON DECEMBER 21, 2021

High-quality renderings and planning documents have now been released for the 200 Mission Street campus project, immediately after Hines announced the groundbreaking news that 50 Main Street would reach 1,066 feet tall. While the renderings provide greater insight into the architectural design of 50 Main Street supertall by Foster + Partners, the new documents have revealed foundation details and the estimated timeline for construction.

Documents also show the project has another name besides 200 Mission Street Campus: Atlas Block.

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2...er-Partners-rendering-courtesy-Hines.jpg

...

Assuming the permitting process is smooth, construction is expected with the 1970s-era tower at 77 Beale Street, now named 200 Mission Street, in the first quarter of 2023. The reskinning and redevelopment of the interiors will complete by the final quarter of 2026. In the second quarter of 2023, crews are expected to begin with the historic rehabilitation of 215-245 Market Street and finish in the third quarter of 2026.

However, anticipation is most highly focused on the first quarter of 2024, when crews will officially start work on 50 Main Street, the 85-story residential supertall. In the same quarter, crews will begin working on the inner-block privately owned public open space, i.e., POPOS. The public open space will be the first to open on the Campus in mid-2026, and 50 Main Street will be the last component to open, with an estimated completion date in the first quarter of 2027.

...

The foundation of 50 Main Street is sure to be a primary focus for residents of San Francisco. With the ongoing engineering project below the Millennium Tower to correct the leaning high-rise, many are anxious about the prospect of a new skyscraper, no less the second tallest skyscraper in the city. Although the unique conditions that might have led to the leaning at Millennium Tower are not present for 50 Main Street, documents provide several key assurances.

Foundation work is expected to last for most of 2024. According to the construction documents, a drill rig will be utilized for the deep foundation work, with the structural excavation of thirty concrete caissons, each eight feet wide and 350 feet deep. With bedrock on average 300 feet below sea level in San Francisco, this will ensure the thirty massive caissons will reach bedrock. For comparison, the much larger Salesforce Tower included 42 piles reaching bedrock.

...

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2...s-rendering-courtesy-Hines-2048x1366.jpg

With new renderings, the design for 50 Main Street and 200 Mission Street have been illuminated in greater detail.

The proposed design for 50 Main Street is by Foster + Partners, a UK-founded architecture firm known for its innovative designs and pivotal role in developing highly complex curtain-wall technology. The tower is to rise 85 stories to achieve a rooftop height of 1,066 feet tall, making it the second tallest building in San Francisco, four feet shy of the Salesforce Tower.

Foster + Partners founder, Norman Foster, shared with the public that “50 Main is part of the reimagining of an entire city block, providing a hub of community within the East Cut district’s ongoing transformation into a welcoming, vibrant mixed-use neighborhood in the heart of San Francisco.“ Foster went on to express that, as “a beacon of sustainable design with a redwood forest at its base, the residential tower seeks to blend with the undulating skyline of the city, while offering a unique vision that is expressive of its time, complementary to its historic context, and looks firmly toward the future.”

The renderings indeed show the tower infuses natural timber hues with floor-to-ceiling glass, implying that the building will feature mass timber in the facade. However, construction documents state the structure will be made of steel.

For 200 Mission Street, Pickard Chilton will be responsible for reskinning the 1960s-era office building designed by Hertzka and Knowles. The new design will bulge out from the original envelop with curtain-wall glass, adding nearly 25,000 square feet of new office space. The tower is to be capped with the ‘Sky Garden,’ with mature trees and open green space.

https://sfyimby.com/2021/12/hines-expect...l-at-50-main-street-to-open-by-2027.html

Hmm, great to see some ambitious development though i'm not sure I'm sold on the looks yet. I have a feeling this will face a lot of similar criticism to 423 Park Ave in NY.

Terrible design. Nice box lol

Yeah I'm not a huge fan of the design myself. Seems like they went with something safe and boring. A lot of the older skyscrapers in SF are already quite boxy and in recent years we've moved away from that thankfully, so I'm not sure why they went back to this design. It's not particularly iconic or even interesting. It already looks dated.

One of my all-time favorite architects designing a supertall in my home town, and I really really hope it gets sent back in disgust. They can do way better. I...I think I need to sit down...

Quote:

Originally Posted by tall/awkward (Post 9483296)

One of my all-time favorite architects designing a supertall in my home town, and I really really hope it gets sent back in disgust. They can do way better. I...I think I need to sit down...

Agreed. Foster can do better. Send it back, and try again.

Agreed. Please don't look like that, at that height. This is in great need of a makeover, something like what happened for the final designs for the Lumina and Infinity Towers. This tower should look more like it was (will be) built in 2027 rather than 1997. At (maybe) 1066 feet tall, this needs to look much more iconic period! Hopefully these are just preliminary place holder designs, and the architect, client and the City are waiting for initial public reaction. The height is okay. It could even be taller. Just make it look better!

I don't like the idea of the heights of the two tallest being so similar. It has a deadening effect on the skyline.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51753306816_6591e22e50_c.jpg

Would that be a good enough excuse to make this a little taller, and hopefully not shorter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 9483732)

I don't like the idea of the heights of the two tallest being so similar. It has a deadening effect on the skyline.

No more deadening than the skyline was for 45 years being stuck in the same state.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 9483732)

I don't like the idea of the heights of the two tallest being so similar. It has a deadening effect on the skyline.

That's because the rendering doesn't show Oceanwide Center and TransBay Parcel F which are only slightly shorter but would fill in the gaps and make for a cluster of taller buildings, not just a "pair".

Note: Since we suddenly have several "out of towners" visiting the thread, it should be pointed out that One Rincon Hill, which is the farthest tower to the right side of the above skyline photos, was the tallest all-residential tower west of Chicago when it opened and still is I believe. As you can see, 50 Main would be substantially taller than that not just setting a new record by a bit but by a lot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9484314)

Note: Since we suddenly have several "out of towners" visiting the thread, it should be pointed out that One Rincon Hill, which is the farthest tower to the right side of the above skyline photos, was the tallest all-residential tower west of Chicago when it opened and still is I believe.

Since surpassed by the Independent and Austonian in Austin. But this proposal will retake the crown by a long shot.

I quite like this project, and disagree with most of the criticisms above. Conservative at first glance but I don't think it's boring. I'm really interested in seeing the timber facade and I think the contrast with the blue glass is what will make this one stand out. It's certainly better than another mirrored curtain wall with steel pinstripes or cheap look-at-me architecture that will mar a classic skyline. And I actually like its relation to the SF tower, which has always been in need of company.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how the floor plates of 50 Main compare to those of the skinny supertalls in NYC?

Looks like this one will be 100' x 127' up until floor 46, and then from floors 47-71 it'll be 100' x 100'. Not sure about floors 72-85.

https://sfyimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2...-illustration-by-Foster-and-Partners.jpg

I am actually intrigued by the thought of using mass timber in the building facades. Perhaps 50 Main Street will look more interesting and better than we expect. It's still early enough in the design process that we could see design refinements in the future.

Someone should make a rendering including the new 800' Salesforce Tower at Parcel F.

This building is okay, I dig the height (although it's too similar to Salesforce Tower as others have mentioned) but I guess that's a good problem to have. The occupied space / garden 1k feet above SF would be pretty crazy.

If Hines is behind this, it seems pretty likely it could be built.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 9484696)

Parcel F is not a "Salesforce" tower. Saleforce leased the entire existing supertall at 1st & Mission (the building just a bit taller than 50 Main) and slapped its name on both it and the Transit Center, but Parcel F will be named something else unless Salesforce pays to have its name on that too. They do not need more office space, however, with a large part of their workforce now working at least part time at home, and gave up the idea of leasing at the stalled Oceanwide Center.

There will likely eventually be 6 very tall or supertall buildings within blocks of each other in the Transbay Transit District: Salesforce Tower (1070 ft--built), 181 Fremont (803 ft--built), Oceanwide Center (2 towers, 910 ft and 605 ft--mostly built to street level and suspended), Parcel F (806 ft--approved), and 50 Main.

I am sure the planning commission will have a lot to say about the design. Unfortunately i dont think they will have a problem with the overall look of the proposal. I think their problem will be the height. Salesforce and 181 Fremont were supposed to be taller and got shortened. Hines should have proposed a 1,266 foot tower that way when the planning commision says take 200 feet off the top it would have ended up at 1066. Gut feeling is that it will end up under 900 feet tall. I really hope i am wrong on this one. If it ends up being 1066....at least i hope the final design will look more 2027 than 1997

The design is pretty lame. SF deserves better. It's arguably the second best city in America and warrants a far more striking design for its second tallest tower.

Quote:

Originally Posted by obemearg (Post 9483111)

Hmm, great to see some ambitious development though i'm not sure I'm sold on the looks yet. I have a feeling this will face a lot of similar criticism to 423 Park Ave in NY.

432 Park Ave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UpwithOlives (Post 9486996)

432 Park Ave.

The difference is that 432 is one among many supertalls. Hopefully, many more 1,000’ towers will rise in SF, and this won’t stand out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMKeynes (Post 9486997)

The difference is that 432 is one among many supertalls. Hopefully, many more 1,000’ towers will rise in SF, and this won’t stand out.

Not with current zoning and there are no zoning changes planned. Even one more office building this tall probably couldn't be built. 50 Main needs state "density bonuses" only available to housing to reach the height it has. A careful perusal of the height/bulk limits and a thorough knowledge of the density bonus laws might identify another site or several where 1000 ft housing could be built but I'm not sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9487112)

Yes, that's right, at least for the foreseeable future. BTW, can anyone tell us how long, from what year to what year, San Francisco's maximum height limit was 550 feet? The point is things can and do change over time. We just don't know when.

I'm as most of you, that the height proposed doesn't get reduced. At least someone is making a serious attempt with potential plausible backup support. Perhaps if enough of us support it, and the pros outweigh the cons, it may succeed. May those of us who like having another one or more supertalls in San Francisco soon have the best of luck!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9487112)

Thanks. While I don’t like the design, it’s a good sign that SF is still doing really well. Many morons think that it’s falling apart and that everyone will abandon it for the likes of Dallas, Raleigh, Charlotte, etc. Obviously, that’s not going to happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toasty Joe (Post 9487475)

couldn't agree more. SF's skyline has always punched above its weight due to the hills and (imo) tasteful variation in building height, with Salesforce more recently contributing a nice bulky centerpiece. This kinda ruins that. I'll wait to see renderings with Oceanside and Parcel F, but I almost hope this gets a height chop.

Call me crazy but I appreciate when a city's tallest is a marquee design with a strong presence. Feels similar to Central Park Tower essentially overtaking 1WTC, but way closer together.

Once again, there is going to be a group of buildings within 2 blocks of each other surrounding the Salesforce Tower and from Dolores Park, which that image is, it will form almost a single mass. Besides Salesforce and 50 Main, TransBay Parcel F is very likely to move forward even before 50 Main. Quite possibly by the time 50 Main gets approved (assuming it does), what is currently known as Oceanwide Center could well have a new owner and when it does it will quickly begin to rise because the underground work, which in SF takes about half the construction time, is just about done.

So eventually there will be Salesforce, "Oceanwide" with 2 towers (one nearly 1000 ft), Parcel F, 50 Main and 181 Fremont in one pretty tight grouping. I do wish someone had produced a rendering showing all of them so the real situation would be apparent.

Here is a composite I created using images borrowed from Steelblue and Foster and Partners. Since I am not affiliated with either entity, and images I've posted previously on Skyscraperpage have been used by others for various purposes at various websites; out of respect for Steelblue, and Foster and Partners, I have watermarked the image. I am posting this for discussion purposes only.

The height of this version of 50 Main at 1066 feet is correct for this perspective view, so it appears slightly taller. Even in elevation view, Salesforce Tower and 50 Main would appear almost identical. Please note again that design of 50 Main could very well change from what is portrayed here. I also didn't update 77 Beale/200 Mission - the shorter tower just next door to the left.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/m96/mrayatsfo/50_Main_Composite_1(2).jpg

^^Very nice. Thanks.

Thank you SFView. Annoying watermarks but had to be done that way. Glad you put in "oceanwide" in the shot. What could've been....sigh. Well done !

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFView (Post 9488105)

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/m96/mrayatsfo/50_Main_Composite_1(2).jpg

Bumping to the next page. Thanks for putting this together!

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9484445)

I found the answer to this. 432 Park measures 93' x 93' x 1396', so this will actually be quite similar in floor plate dimension, but 330' shorter.

The skinniest tower in NYC is 111 West 57th at 60' x 80' x 1428', for a width:height ratio of 1:24.

^^It is my pleasure, thanks!

I estimate approximately a 1:8.4 width to height ratio for the current 1066 foot tall scheme. It appears that the 100 x 100 foot floor plates with the shorter 818 foot tall scheme no longer apply. Obviously this building must meet local structural building codes for seismic etc.

If everything is built as the new rendering portrays, I think the skyline will look okay regarding the building heights and massing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFView (Post 9488883)

Right, and there are many vantage points to view the skyline, so I don't think that one view from Mission Dolores Park justifies height reduction just to optimize that one particular viewing angle.

Correct me if I’m wrong but in the steelblue rendering, isn’t the parcel f tower supposed to be placed behind 181 Fremont and not to the left of it? Both 181 Fremont and parcel f have entrances to the southern portion of salesforce park

^That is the correct position for Parcel F in that camera point of view. I double checked all the geometry with the help of Google Earth 3D view and most everything matches almost perfectly.

Source: https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/A-near-twin-for-S-F-s-Salesforce-Tower-16702552.php

Quote:

...“I like a lot of what they’re proposing, and this site can take additional height if it’s designed well,” said Rich Hillis, the city’s planning director. “But we have to look at the larger context, and what they assume is the base” of what Hines is allowed in terms of extra density and height.

...Paradis (senior managing director in Hines’ San Francisco office) argues that the new landscapes more than compensate for winter shadows that the 50 Main tower would cast on public parks to the north during the winter. Because of a voter-approved ordinance dating to the 1980s, almost any new shadows on public spaces are forbidden unless approved by the city’s Recreation and Park Commission.

“We will create some shadows, but I don’t see that as an insurmountable issue. We’re also creating many multiples of sunny park space,” Paradis said. And while it would be privately owned, “you would just walk right in off the sidewalk.

Let's hope this sort of support works well enough in the project's favor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9488478)

Bumping to the next page. Thanks for putting this together!

Anyone know what that giant powerline tower looking thing is all the way in the background on top of the hill? I always see it and wonder what it is

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdurk (Post 9490928)

Anyone know what that giant powerline tower looking thing is all the way in the background on top of the hill? I always see it and wonder what it is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutro_Tower