Canadian province/ U.S. state analogues

[Repthe250]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

It makes sense for someone from BC, because it’s objectively true in comparison, but why do so many mainlanders think we’re cold, especially compared to most of Canada? St. John’s has one of the mildest winter climates in the country, full stop, and that’s also true looking only at the southern populated areas. Even the bulk of mainland Labrador has a typical Canadian climate with brutal winters but hot summers. That’s practically Siberia compared to here but I’d still not describe it as cold compared to most of Canada. It’s just a strange stereotype for us to have, to me, given it’s so demonstrably false from most possible Canadian reference points. Even extreme southern ON and the warmest bits of the Maritimes should be looking at us and thinking, “Yeah, that’s about the same, temperature wise.”

I’ll explain my reasoning - My moms side of the family is from St Johns and they would tell us stories of how they’d have to climb out of their top floor window in the winter to go to school. Photos to prove. Also, my uncle was visiting St. John’s last summer when BC had that heat wave end of June. He was saying how lucky he was to have missed it because it barely reached 12 degrees as day time highs there. Also, let’s not forget about the icebergs that famously float by year round. I wouldn’t consider Newfoundland “freezing” per se, but neither is southern Alaska. Labrador on the other hand…

I should also add incomparable beauty to the comparison as well.

[SignalHillHiker]

I was hoping to get away with that post without someone just quoting any of my posts in the Weather thread with “This you?” So yay!

Yeah the snow thing is true, especially in western parts of the province - typically here there’s very little accumulation, but in the past 20 years it’s been debilitating to the point of basically shutting down the city twice. That it can happen at all certainly would look large in the minds of people who left as the norm is less notable.

Cool June is a given until the middle of the month. We really don’t get a spring. Our falls are long and nice in comparison, but nothing notable from a BC perspective.

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I was hoping to get away with that post without someone just quoting any of my posts in the Weather thread with “This you?” So yay!

Yeah the snow thing is true, except in western parts of the province - typically here there’s very little accumulation, but in the past 20 years it’s been debilitating to the point of basically shutting down the city twice. That it can happen at all certainly would look large in the minds of people who left as the norm is less notable.

Cool June is a given until the middle of the month. We really don’t get a spring. Our falls are long and nice in comparison, but nothing notable from a BC perspective.

The misconceptions about NL are based on the remoteness (few people get to go in the winter and see for themselves) and media bias. NL's climate only makes the news when it is really bad. Except for that one post a year where it is warmer in St John's and Orlando or something like that.

That's why NL is Maine to me. Inland and western regions do get a lot of snow. Rocky geography. Mild coastal climate (ish). Plenty of misconceptions from those who have never been, while adored by those who have been.

[BillM]

Originally Posted by Odyssey

The Territories - Alaska (out of the way tundra)

BC - California + Pacific Northwest (rain, mountains, weed, hippies and mild weather)

Alberta - Texas + Colorado (cowboys and oil but also mountains)

Saskatchewan - Great Plains Region (North Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma, etc.) (obv)

Manitoba - Minnesota (a lot of lakes and trees and some farmland, names also sound similar lol)

Ontario - Great Lakes Region + Mid-Atlantic (big cities, industrial, heartland)

National Capital Region, Ontario/Quebec - Washington Region, DC/Maryland/Virginia (capital on province/state border)

Quebec - New England + Appalachia and the South, but French (best universities, maple syrup and old cities but also had separatists)

Atlantic Canada - Maine + The Southeast (but colder obv) (fishing and lighthouses but also unique accents and kinda backwater)

I like this list a lot.

I would add the Los Angeles area to Ontario and put NYC (and maybe Philadelphia) in Quebec.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Some stereotypes take decades (even centuries) to go away.

It's common to see Canadians "round up" every region of the country except for Atlantic Canada or the Maritimes (often they're not sure about the distinction) which they present in the opposite way.

BC or Ontario are nowhere near as developed as California or the US northeast. However the Maritimes alone have more population than Maine and probably a higher population density too (and a more urbane city, and more farmland, and so on). Yet I think in the mental model of a lot of North Americans, to the extent that they think about the Maritimes at all, it's just farther out along the Maine attenuation axis.

A lot of people think of the Maritimes as being "north" of Maine too but it's more correct to think of them as being "east". And I'd guess that most Canadians who haven't been there don't realize that PEI for example is more like rural Southern Ontario than Northern Ontario. Not sure anywhere in Maine or even all of New England looks like that. The error is a bit like if you imagined that Quebec is a more northern Vermont, though not as extreme.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by someone123

It's common to see Canadians "round up" every region of the country except for Atlantic Canada or the Maritimes (often they're not sure about the distinction) which they present in the opposite way.

BC or Ontario are nowhere near as developed as California or the US northeast. However the Maritimes alone have more population than Maine and probably a higher population density too (and a more urbane city, and more farmland, and so on). Yet I think in the mental model of a lot of North Americans, to the extent that they think about the Maritimes at all, it's just farther out along the Maine attenuation axis.

A lot of people think of the Maritimes as being "north" of Maine too but it's more correct to think of them as being "east". And I'd guess that most Canadians who haven't been there don't realize that PEI for example is more like rural Southern Ontario than Northern Ontario. Not sure anywhere in Maine or even all of New England looks like that. The error is a bit like if you imagined that Quebec is a more northern Vermont, though not as extreme.

I will mention two communities in Ontario: Toronto and Fort Severn. Same province. One has the busiest highway in the Western Hemisphere and possibly the world. The other is fly-in only and not connected to anywhere else by a road. One is on one of the largest freshwater lakes in the world while the other is on a huge ocean bay. And I could go on and on about extreme differences.

Maybe Ontario is like Alaska. Both have polar bears, seals and beluga whales.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Odyssey

The Territories - Alaska (out of the way tundra)

BC - California + Pacific Northwest (rain, mountains, weed, hippies and mild weather)

Alberta - Texas + Colorado (cowboys and oil but also mountains)

Saskatchewan - Great Plains Region (North Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma, etc.) (obv)

Manitoba - Minnesota (a lot of lakes and trees and some farmland, names also sound similar lol)

Ontario - Great Lakes Region + Mid-Atlantic (big cities, media, tech, industry heartland)

National Capital Region, Ontario/Quebec - Washington Region, DC/Maryland/Virginia (capital on province/state border)

Quebec - New England + Appalachia and the South, but French (best universities, maple syrup and old cities but also had separatists)

Atlantic Canada - Maine + The Southeast (but colder obv) (fishing and lighthouses but also unique accents and kinda backwater)

Good list. Just needed a few tweaks.

[Repthe250]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Good list. Just needed a few tweaks.

Mild weather is not an opinion. So just because you don’t agree (shocker, you’re from southern Ontario) doesn’t make it not so. It’s a fact. All of BC isn’t Vancouver. Yes it rains a lot in Vancouver, but it doesn’t in Victoria, Kelowna, or Kamloops. In fact Victoria is one of the sunniest cities in Canada with avg 308 days of sun a year and Kelowna/Kamloops are two of the driest, hottest cities in Canada. All you gotta do is google it. Or maybe spend a year out here. You’ll understand what I’m talking about.
People don’t come to BC for the affordability. People come here for the mild winters and gorgeous summers (low humidity, little to no rain). But if you were in the US, you wouldn’t move to the PNW for its weather. So BC has that California affect on Canadians.

[Repthe250]

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

The misconceptions about NL are based on the remoteness (few people get to go in the winter and see for themselves) and media bias. NL's climate only makes the news when it is really bad. Except for that one post a year where it is warmer in St John's and Orlando or something like that.

That's why NL is Maine to me. Inland and western regions do get a lot of snow. Rocky geography. Mild coastal climate (ish). Plenty of misconceptions from those who have never been, while adored by those who have been.

What about Labrador? Very isolated, cold and harsh weather. I think many of us forget that NFLD also includes Labrador which has one of the, if not the harshest climates of the southern 10 provinces

[Architype]

This is more like it, a representation of provinces' populations in proportion to the U.S., however it's still not visually intuitive, unless you are familiar with U.S. population distribution.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Repthe250

What about Labrador? Very isolated, cold and harsh weather. I think many of us forget that NFLD also includes Labrador which has one of the, if not the harshest climates of the southern 10 provinces

Almost every province has a subarctic zone but they don't factor into the collective impression much at all. The urban areas make up the dominant "face" of most provinces.

[Architype]

^ Newfoundland may not be bitterly cold like the prairies but it's harsh (wind speeds), often described as raw. The weather where I grew up is unlike Vancouver, it's worse at least 50% of the time, and that applies to St. John's as well. The biggest differences not reflected in temperatures alone are; snowfall, summer fog, summer rain, and year round wind.

[JustForTheHalibut]

Originally Posted by Repthe250

Ontario - New York. The financial and trading centre of the country. Largest and most recognized City in each country. Muskoka/Catskills.
Quebec - Massachusetts. Both rich in History. Old cities. New England, New France (lol)
BC - California. Both home to the largest cities on their countries west coasts. Both famous for their laidback, hippie liberalism. Weed and wine. Both hold the record for hottest temperatures recorded in their respective countries (Death Valley, Lytton)
Alberta - Texas. Oil. Cowboys. Trucks. And Conservatism.
Saskatchewan - Iowa. Flat. Farms. Crops.
Manitoba - Minnesota. Share a border, similar sounding names. Both very cold. Thousands of lakes.
Nova Scotia - Maine. Seafood galore. Similar climates. Both beautiful, coastal places with rolling hills and forests.
New Brunswick - Louisiana. French roots. Economies both near the bottom of their respective countries. Very rural and backwoods-y vibes.
PEI - Delaware. Beaches. Not much else.
Newfoundland - Alaska. Isolated, funny accents. Endless coastline. Fishing is a major industry. Cold.

I like how we can start saying that we have the hottest temperature record in the country!,
at least for the last 8 months of the last 80 years anyway, so that's something BC and California can say we both share in their respective countries.
And yes I know that it's been sort of acknowledged that the heat wave in BC last year was probably exasperated to the extreme levels because maybe a bit of a human caused climate change component but we can say that about a lot of other things too.

[JustForTheHalibut]

Originally Posted by Repthe250

What about Labrador? Very isolated, cold and harsh weather. I think many of us forget that NFLD also includes Labrador which has one of the, if not the harshest climates of the southern 10 provinces

I never know how to evaluate what weather is normally like in other parts of the country but Climate Severity Index is a good start.

In Canada, much of the northern Queen Elizabeth Islands, except for some sheltered locations, have the highest severity, with all 4 factors showing high values. Only slightly less severity exists in the remainder of the Arctic Islands, the Beaufort Sea coast, the District of Keewatin, northern Manitoba, the Hudson Bay coast of Ontario, the Ungava Peninsula and the Hudson Strait shores of Québec and northern Labrador.

Over the remainder of Canada, the severity values are much lower. Victoria (13) and Penticton (16) are among the most pleasant climates of Canada's populated places. Medicine Hat (29) and Lethbridge (33) are relatively benign.

The accompanying Climate Severity Indexes of Selected Placeslists climate severity index values for some of Canada's major cities. Victoria has the best climate in the country. St John's (59) wins the prize for the city with the toughest climate.

Below the 60th latitude it's cities like Sudbury, Fort Mac, Quebec City, Sydney NS that have the most sever climate after Newfoundland.

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia....y%20quantified.









Places with a wet climate make it that much more uncomfortable.

BC interior and Victoria are tops in Canada for less wet, more dry comfort.
The next cities are like Thunder bay and progressively further east.

notably Vancouver, Abbotsford and C'Wack that are notably wet though.

[JustForTheHalibut]

Originally Posted by Odyssey
Atlantic Canada - Maine + The Southeast (but colder obv) (fishing and lighthouses but also unique accents and kinda backwater)
Some stereotypes take decades (even centuries) to go away.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad
After all, the Scottish Highlands are still populated with fierce and illiterate warrior clans - aren't they??????

Videos like this probably don't help the stereotypes

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker
I... wow. Classy.

http://ntv.ca/two-women-in-custody-f...carbonear-mall

[JustForTheHalibut]

Originally Posted by someone123

It's common to see Canadians "round up" every region of the country except for Atlantic Canada or the Maritimes (often they're not sure about the distinction) which they present in the opposite way.

BC or Ontario are nowhere near as developed as California or the US northeast. However the Maritimes alone have more population than Maine and probably a higher population density too (and a more urbane city, and more farmland, and so on). Yet I think in the mental model of a lot of North Americans, to the extent that they think about the Maritimes at all, it's just farther out along the Maine attenuation axis.

A lot of people think of the Maritimes as being "north" of Maine too but it's more correct to think of them as being "east". And I'd guess that most Canadians who haven't been there don't realize that PEI for example is more like rural Southern Ontario than Northern Ontario. Not sure anywhere in Maine or even all of New England looks like that. The error is a bit like if you imagined that Quebec is a more northern Vermont, though not as extreme.

Interesting post, but I had to fact check your statements.

I find it unique to pick one American State to compare to 4 Canadian Provinces together as opposed to bunch 4 American States and compare to one maritime province, but sure lets do a comparison of Maine with the maritimes.

Firstly Maine has population of 17 people/km2, NewB+NovaS+PEI have 15 people/km2.
Biggest city in Maine is Portland with a metro area of over half a million. Maritimes biggest city is Halifax with 100,000 less people than Portland. As far as Portland being less urbane than say Halifax, i'd have to wonder.

Portland has a higher population density, seems to have a fairly robust arts and culture scene with dozens of festivals, the largest theatre in North American east of Boston/Montreal. Portland seems to have a profuse number of sporting events, teams and venues, more than Halifax anyway. Maine has twice as many colleges and universities than the maritimes, and probably twice as many students. I have to say I still think of the maritines being a farther out more isolated attenuation of the eastern sea board of the continent.

The Maritimes are indeed east of the New England states but still definitely on a north east ward tragectory.
I'm not sure anywhere in New England would look like PEI. Massachusetts for example is far more densely populated, but still has countryside.
thanks for your thoughts though.

[someone123]

A Mercator map with lines of latitude visible:


Source

Originally Posted by JustForTheHalibut

Firstly Maine has population of 17 people/km2, NewB+NovaS+PEI have 15 people/km2.

The numbers you provide are a bit out of date but you're splitting hairs. The point is that the densities are roughly the same but the population in the Maritimes is significantly larger. And the point was to contrast that with a lot of the other Canada-US comparisons which compare parts of Canada to hugely more developed parts of the US. If we applied the Atlantic standards to Ontario we'd be calling Ontario the Michigan of Canada or BC the Oregon of Canada. Nothing wrong with these comparisons and there's some truth to the idea that Toronto's the NYC of Canada or whatever, but the standard applied to Atlantic Canada is often wildly different.

[lio45]

The fascinating things on that map:

1) The Pacific beaches at San Diego are east of Grande Prairie, Alberta;
2) The Atlantic beaches at Jacksonville are west of Toronto.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

The fascinating things on that map:

1) The Pacific beaches at San Diego are east of Grande Prairie, Alberta;
2) The Atlantic beaches at Jacksonville are west of Toronto.

If we zoomed out even further we'd see that some parts of the Pacific coast of Chile are actually east of much of the US east coast on the Atlantic!

[Repthe250]

Originally Posted by JustForTheHalibut

I never know how to evaluate what weather is normally like in other parts of the country but Climate Severity Index is a good start.








Below the 60th latitude it's cities like Sudbury, Fort Mac, Quebec City, Sydney NS that have the most sever climate after Newfoundland.

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia....y%20quantified.









Places with a wet climate make it that much more uncomfortable.

BC interior and Victoria are tops in Canada for less wet, more dry comfort.
The next cities are like Thunder bay and progressively further east.

notably Vancouver, Abbotsford and C'Wack that are notably wet though.

So BC has the most rainy city and least rainy city in the country. That’s a pretty impressive feat considering Chilliwack and Kamloops are only 250km apart