Downtown Canada

[J.OT13]

OK, so with the big argument of Downtown Vancouver vs. Downtown Toronto and the geographical limits, let's actually define the geographical limits of your city's "downtown" and while we're at it, what can be defined as "the city", sort of like how NYC defines "the city" as most of Manhattan.

Keep in mid that Wikipedia does not hold all the answers. They define downtown Ottawa as the CBD only and the Rideau-Market area as "normally considered downtown", but not.

In Ottawa, I would define "downtown" as the CBD, the Market and Rideau Centre area as the true downtown. Everything once served by streetcars and the Island of Hull I would define as "the city" or "downtown neighborhoods".


https://spinor.info/weblog/?p=3938

[kwoldtimer]

Kitchener's 2012 master plan defines four Downtown districts (below). It's not cast in stone - the Downtown BIA, for example, extends a couple of blocks to the "east" of the Market District. But that's more or less it for "downtown" - beyond these boundaries, I'd call it more urban core or central city - mostly residential or old industrial.



By the way, the Warehouse District has been re-designated the Innovation District, with big hopes for future high tech employment and residential development.

[J.OT13]

Wow! Warehouse District has a lot of potential! Heck, all of downtown Kitchener has good potential. Strange to see a downtown with no water though.

[SignalHillHiker]

The Downtown, in St. John's, is a clearly-defined and very small portion of the Old Town area.

It includes portions of Water, Duckworth, New Gower, and numerous other minor streets.



Two adjacent neighbourhoods - the Ecclesiastical District and Fort William - are sometimes considered part of the Downtown by locals. However, all other adjacent neighbourhoods never are.

For visitors and tourists, however, the Downtown - as they'd be used to the concept from other cities (CBD, heavily commercial areas) - would extend from Riverhead to Hoylestown.

[VIce]

The streetcar systems of olde might end up being a common theme for a few cities' "downtown neighborhoods". Excluding Ogden, the old streetcar system for Calgary largely covers what I would consider the "the city" as well:


http://www.tundria.com/trams/CAN/Calgary-1945.shtml

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Wow! Warehouse District has a lot of potential! Heck, all of downtown Kitchener has good potential. Strange to see a downtown with no water though.

Indeed, the Warehouse District is already home to the Tannery, the UofW School of Pharmacy, Kaufmann Lofts, and the One Victoria (under construction) and One Hundred Victoria (proposed) condos. It will also house the Multi-modal Transit Hub that will open with LRT in 2017. The City last year moved its operations out of the two big blocks bordering the railway tracks, so this whole area is now available for future development.

Re water, Kitchener (and Waterloo) are unusual in that, although they have grown so that the Grand River forms their "eastern" borders, the original settlements were on small creeks that powered the first mills. You can see Victoria Park immediately to the "south" of the map I posted - Schneiders Creek runs through it and (along with stormwater) feeds the "lake". Most locals would consider Victoria Park to be "downtown" but it is not part of "Downtown", if that makes any sense.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by VIce

The streetcar systems of olde might end up being a common theme for a few cities' "downtown neighborhoods". Excluding Ogden, the old streetcar system for Calgary largely covers what I would consider the "the city" as well:

Wow, we don't have them here any more, but this is exactly right for St. John's as well. The old streetcar network was limited to Riverhead and the Downtown in the neighbourhood map above.

[Beedok]

Hamilton's core, though not quite the downtown, is probably the highway that cuts off westdale to the west, the escarpment to the south, the lake to the north, and then is over by the time it reaches the Red Hill Creek highway, but I'm not sure where exactly as the east sort of trickles into modern suburb.

[Innsertnamehere]

the^thats more of the "city" than downtown. downtown is probably roughly Queen to Wellington and Cannon to the Escarpment (roughly, its a bit further astray down james toward the lake and along king towards the Red Hill expressway)

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

the^thats more of the "city" than downtown. downtown is probably roughly Queen to Wellington and Cannon to the Escarpment (roughly, its a bit further astray down james toward the lake and along king towards the Red Hill expressway)

I said it wasn't downtown. It also isn't the 'city' though, because Westdale is clearly part of that but also clearly not part of the core. Also I would say some parts of the mountain count as 'the city' but not 'the core'.

Heck for some people downtown is a term for everything not on the mountain.

[Chadillaccc]

I understand why some may not include the Beltline in Calgary's downtown, but for me, I just can't not include it. Whenever I want to go to the Galaxy Diner or Cosmic Cafe for breakfast, I say "Let's go downtown for breakfast", whenever I wanna go out on 17th Avenue I say "Let's go out downtown tonight", stuff like that. It just is downtown to me. There are obviously many more examples. Plus the Beltline holds something like 10 million sq. ft. of office space. I feel more in the downtown core when I'm in the Beltline than I do when I am in the downtown West End (Calgary), even though the west end is always considered part of downtown. It's not like the situation for Kensington, where if you're gonna go out there, people usually say "Let's go (somewhere) in Kensington"...

[ue]

In Edmonton, downtown formally is bound to the west by 111 St, to the north by 105 Ave, the east by 97 Street, and to the south by River Valley Road west of the Legislature and 97 Ave east of it until Bellamy Hill Road, then it follows that up to McDougall Hill, after which the southerly boundary is the river itself. This is a good map of it, although it does include areas east of 97 St - http://www.edmontondowntown.com/uplo...tjd_154616.pdf

In more casual vernacular, "downtown" is usually referred to as the neighbourhoods of Downtown, Oliver, Boyle Street ("the Quarters"), the North Edge (southern parts of Central McDougall and Queen Mary Park), Rossdale, McCauley, and sometimes Westmount. Old Strathcona and Garneau are sometimes referred to as "Downtown South."

[Chadillaccc]

Do people in Edmonton refer to Strathcona like Calgarian's refer to Kensington? Just calling it by its name rather than just "somewhere downtown" ? That's how I refer to it when I'm there, usually just "Strathcona" rather than "Old Strathcona" though...

[VIce]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

I understand why some may not include the Beltline in Calgary's downtown, but for me, I just can't not include it. Whenever I want to go to the Galaxy Diner or Cosmic Cafe for breakfast, I say "Let's go downtown for breakfast", whenever I wanna go out on 17th Avenue I say "Let's go out downtown tonight", stuff like that. It just is downtown to me. There are obviously many more examples. Plus the Beltline holds something like 10 million sq. ft. of office space. I feel more in the downtown core when I'm in the Beltline than I do when I am in the downtown West End (Calgary), even though the west end is always considered part of downtown. It's not like the situation for Kensington, where if you're gonna go out there, people usually say "Let's go (somewhere) in Kensington"...

Whoever's been running the Kensington BRZ did a hell of a job. A good enough job that everybody calls the neighborhood Kensington, instead of the proper names Hillhurst or Sunnyside. Ditto on Marda Loop. That's probably quite high praise to both.

[1overcosc]

Here's Kingston.

-Black lines: Old streetcar lines.
-Area filled in red: Downtown. The exact area of downtown is a bit nebulous; I used the official BIA definition.
-Area filled in blue: "The city"--pre-war era development. It's hard to judge though, I suspect I'm a bit too generous in the southwest and not generous enough in the north.

[ue]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Do people in Edmonton refer to Strathcona like Calgarian's refer to Kensington? Just calling it by its name rather than just "somewhere downtown" ? That's how I refer to it when I'm there, usually just "Strathcona" rather than "Old Strathcona" though...

For whatever reason, "Strathcona" isn't very popular. Instead people prefer "Old Strathcona" or if it needs to be shortened, then "Old Scona." Most people just say "Whyte Ave" though, as that's where most stuff is. I.e. "Wanna go to Whyte on Saturday?" or "yeah, I live in a place just off Whyte Ave". For most central nabes, it seems more popular to just refer to the main drag, i.e. 124 St instead of Westmount*, 118 Ave instead of Alberta Avenue or Parkdale or Beverly, Fort Road instead of Belvedere, 97 Street instead of McCauley (sometimes Chinatown is used instead), etc. A few exceptions would be Rossdale, Glenora, the Highlands, and Downtown itself.

* Usually when people refer to Westmount, they don't mean the streetcar suburb, but instead Westmount Centre, which is actually across the street from the neighbourhood limits. That's another one, people also will tend to refer to the malls instead of the neighbourhoood. I.e. Northgate instead of Rosslyn, Kingsway instead of Spruce Avenue, Southgate instead of Empire Park, WEM instead of Summerlea, etc. I guess that's common in other cities too, though.

[Chadillaccc]

Yeah I guess it's a bit different here cause even though 17th and Kensington Road are technically the main drags of their areas, there are multiple other drags in each area with a comparable amount of stuff. I guess that is what makes Whyte Ave such a fantastic street, the concentration of activity.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Yeah I guess it's a bit different here cause even though 17th and Kensington Road are technically the main drags of their areas, there are multiple other drags in each area with a comparable amount of stuff. I guess that is what makes Whyte Ave such a fantastic street, the concentration of activity.

I like doing the street view thing. What are the other main Calgary streets? Thanx!

[ue]

^ Try 17th, Scarth (1 St SW), 10th Ave, 11th Ave, 4th St, 10th St, 14th St...

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Yeah I guess it's a bit different here cause even though 17th and Kensington Road are technically the main drags of their areas, there are multiple other drags in each area with a comparable amount of stuff. I guess that is what makes Whyte Ave such a fantastic street, the concentration of activity.

Yep, that concentration is why I think Whyte Ave is far better than 17th Ave. Outside of theatre, though, the Beltline has a similar amount of quality things to see and do, it's just spread out more. It doesn't seem that uncommon for people to say they're "going to 17th", though. Kensington has a few main drags and they're all about equal (whereas in the Beltline, 17th stands out) so it makes sense for people to just refer to the whole neighbourhood.

[Chadillaccc]

By "similar amount", I am sure you mean noticeably larger amount. Thankfully our theatres and concert venues are nestled along Stephen Ave. Also, I'd say both 17th and 4th stand out. 17th stands out as far as clubs go, but 4th stands out just as well for bars, pubs, restaurants, and cafe's.

Originally Posted by logan5

I like doing the street view thing. What are the other main Calgary streets? Thanx!

Your opinion of Calgary is pretty clear, and it's not a good one. So why would you care about that?


Beltline: 17th Ave, 4th Street SW, 1 Street SW, parts of 10th Ave, parts of 12th Ave, 11 Street SW, and a bunch of other pockets around the Beltline.

Kensington: Kensington Road, 10th Street, Memorial, 14th Street (Hillhurst)