Originally Posted by hammersklavier
Most transportation types have long agreed the 23 needs to be split. The problem is that you've got a long and heavily-used route that actually functions more like three routes end-to-end-to-end. This meant that, due to frequent overcrowding, it also had cascade delays that affected less-busy South Philly. Anecdotally, I've found that the 23 was the most likely to bunch, which of course plays hob with frequency (no buses for an hour and then a bunch of four of 'em happened often enough to be irritating).
I don't agree with where they're splitting it, though -- Broad & Erie is a natural terminal and where most inbound riders from NW Philly transfer to the BSL; the section along 11th/12th and Germantown up to there functions more like a N-S core grid line.
I don't know who these transportation experts are, but I digress in this situation and say that the so-called transportation experts are full of it. The 23 is a historical route, from Chestnut Hill to South Philly, and if you can break up the 23, you might as well break up the 16, the 47, the 57, and all the other long surface routes in Philly's bus system.
Serious, this a big loss not just for SEPTA, IMHO, but for most commuters since most working and middle class people cannot afford to pay $4 each way via commuter rail in NW Phila (which really needs to be incorporated into the subway system, IMHO). You have to be upper middle class or rich to afford those rates.
Also, I don't understand why SEPTA hasn't brought back the 23 as a trolley like they did with the 15. I also believe that if we're going to compete with the likes of NYC, Boston, DC, Miami, Chicago, and SF, we need a much better transportation system than what we currently have because this system is very antiquated and stuck in the 1920's due to the fact that we only have two subway lines throughout the entire city when we could've had subway (heavy rail) coverage in NE, NW, and even SW Phila to parts of Montco, Buxco, and Delco.
I say this: fire all the bums that's running SEPTA now
and replace them with people who know how to run and expand a system like the MTA and MBTA because this is getting ridiculous!!!
Originally Posted by hammersklavier
It's possible, but I don't think the construction costs would pan out quite like that.
To begin with, inserting a new tunnel in an area already saturated with underground infrastructure isn't easy. Or cheap. While the tunnel corridor itself may be able to avoid other underground infrastructure, you'd still need a landing area and access tunnels, which probably cancels out the benefits.
The solution I came up with is to make a new concourse under the current tracks, and widen the tunnel between 19th and 21st into a new station box. What you do, then, is use the existing 19th St. carstop to access the new concourse on the east, and the sunken plaza between 2000 Market and the old AAA building (where the Wine & Spirits is) to directly access the concourse to the west. This solution would require the least amount of overall tunneling, although some utilities would doubtless have to be moved.
Hey, cool, this "Move Posts" thingy does
I like your idea of widening the tunnels. I also believe that we need two new stations on the MFL on 18th and 22nd Sts. I also believe that we need to completely overhaul the MFL, add express service, replace the trains with the BSL trains, and make it compatible and even link the MFL to the BSL in CC as well as create more subway lines throughout this city!!!