HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #41  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 10:12 AM
NorthernDancer NorthernDancer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
even though Toronto has like three freeways
Who's the idiot who told you Toronto has only three freeways?


Freeways in the city of Toronto:

1. Gardiner Expressway
2. Don Valley Parkway
3. 404
4. 401
5. 409
6. 427
7. Allen Expressway
8. 400


Other freeways in the metro area:

9. QEW
10. 403
11. 410
12. 407


Even if you consider the Gardiner and the QEW to be one freeway, and the DVP and the 404 to be one freeway, that's still 7 freeways in the city limits, and 10 freeways in the metro area.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #42  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 1:53 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 30,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernDancer View Post
Who's the idiot who told you Toronto has only three freeways?
There are basically three freeways in Toronto- the 401, the Don Valley and the Gardiner. For a North American city, that's an incredibly low number.

You are talking about freeways way the hell out in the sticks.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #43  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 4:26 PM
Wizened Variations's Avatar
Wizened Variations Wizened Variations is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
There are basically three freeways in Toronto- the 401, the Don Valley and the Gardiner. For a North American city, that's an incredibly low number.

You are talking about freeways way the hell out in the sticks.
Toronto learned from what Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Boston did wrong.

And stopped building freeways near the urban core, yet kept improving them, and, did build the great 401 (one of the best huge freeways anywhere).
__________________
Good read on relationship between increasing number of freeway lanes and traffic

http://www.vtpi.org/gentraf.pdf
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 4:42 PM
CCs77 CCs77 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by electricron View Post
Population of Denmark = 5,590,000
Area of Denmark = 16,562 sq miles

Population of Canada = 34,880,000
Area of Canada = 3,855,000 sq miles

Keeping it simple, Canada's population is 6 times more, it's area is 232 times more.
16,500 sq miles can be thought as a 100 mile by 165 mile rectangle. 3,855,000 sq miles is equivalent to a 100 mile by 38,550 mile rectangle.

Putting those numbers into perspective; A professional cyclist could and often bike 165 miles in one day. Averaging 30 mph, they could do so in less than 6 hours. It would take the same cyclist more than 1283 hours to bike 38,550 miles, without resting.

Canada is a much larger country than Denmark. It's vastness doesn't make bicycles a preferred method of transport.
What? Really? The bicycle friendliness has nothing to do with the size of the country. Of course Canada is a very large country and nobody is going to traverse it by bicycle, but neither somebody would do that in Denmark. Even as Denmark is a small sized county, it is still large enough to discourage the use of bicycle as a mean of intercity transportation. If you want to go from Copenhagen to Odense (third largest city) it is more than 150 km away, To Aarhaus (second largest), it is 300 km and to Aalborg (fourth) it is like 400 km.
If you talk about bicycles as method of transportation it is within cities, not countries (with countries you talk about trains vs airplanes, for example)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizened Variations View Post
I whole heartedly agree. Outside of NYC which, after all, is NYC, the US public transit friendless can truly stink.

I would rank the most auto dedicated countries something like this:

1. The US
2. Saudi Arabia (they now are working hard to improve public transit).
3. New Zealand
4. Australia
5. Canada
6. Argentina
7. Brazil (Sao Paulo being the exception)

___________

A better comparison would be between Denmark, and, the Greater Golden Horseshoe (~33,500 sq km or about 13,000 sq miles) with a population of 8.76 million.

Denmark has an area of 43,094 square km or 16,663 sq mi, with a population of 5.6 million.

Courtesy of Wikipedia
Argentina is not more autocentric than Spain. In Latinamerica, Venezuela is much more car centric than Argentina.
In Buenos Aires, there is an extensive network of commuter trains, subway and urban buses, that you can use even late at night. The vast majority of apartments buildings don't have a single parking space. Most of the ones that do have parking, don't have one for each unit. Only a very small percentage of apartment buildings have one or more parking spaces for unit.
Even in the suburban areas, many houses don't have parking either, and most of the ones that do have, have only one per unit.
In large or median cities outside of Buenos Aires, the situation is similar, only that they don't have subway nor commuter rail, but they do have an extensive urban bus network, with high frecuencies.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #45  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 4:56 PM
SHiRO's Avatar
SHiRO SHiRO is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 15,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
There are basically three freeways in Toronto- the 401, the Don Valley and the Gardiner. For a North American city, that's an incredibly low number.

You are talking about freeways way the hell out in the sticks.
Now now Crawford, don't go telling someone from Toronto how many freeways their city has. You were still not done schooling us on how many highways Hamburg has remember?

Toronto only has 3 freeways, while Hamburg has multiple highways circling the center. We're still waiting on a satellite pic or map on which you indicate where these are. Oh and the big surface parking lot in front of the station...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #46  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 5:03 PM
MonkeyRonin's Avatar
MonkeyRonin MonkeyRonin is offline
¥ ¥ ¥
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 9,874
Who is this person? Some sort of transportation planner? An urban affairs expert? No - the extent of her credentials appear to be that she visited Canada for a few weeks.

Considering that, why is this even an article? It's not enlightening, it's not well-informed, it's just the whining anecdotes of one tourist out of millions (why does this deserve to be published out of all of those others?). There are plenty of criticisms to be made of Canada's car culture & suburban planning - but this is just poorly written, hyperbolic, condescending, unhelpful rubbish.

Regardless of the content, it's a sad state of affairs when any idiot on the internet can have their opinion published by a major media source.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SHiRO View Post
Only Toronto is bigger than Copenhagen. Montreal is almost the exact same size as Copenhagen-Malmo. Vancouver is more or less equivalent for Copenhagen singular but every other Candian city is at most half the size of the Danish capital. So yeah, Canada has "bigger" cities than Denmark, but you only have one that is bigger than the Danish city.

Huh? Montreal is twice the population of Copenhagen. Vancouver is slightly larger.
__________________
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #47  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 5:55 PM
SHiRO's Avatar
SHiRO SHiRO is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 15,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Who is this person? Some sort of transportation planner? An urban affairs expert? No - the extent of her credentials appear to be that she visited Canada for a few weeks.
And that means her opinion doesn't mean anything? You can ask her these questions herself btw, I posted her Facebook earlier, she does respond (well perhaps only if you're not a total asshole).

Quote:
Considering that, why is this even an article? It's not enlightening, it's not well-informed, it's just the whining anecdotes of one tourist out of millions (why does this deserve to be published out of all of those others?). There are plenty of criticisms to be made of Canada's car culture & suburban planning - but this is just poorly written, hyperbolic, condescending, unhelpful rubbish.
These questions should be directed at the lady from the Ottawa Citizen (who is Canadian) her contact info can be found with the article.

Quote:
Regardless of the content, it's a sad state of affairs when any idiot on the internet can have their opinion published by a major media source.
This thread really didn't need any more insecurity from Canadians.

Quote:
Huh? Montreal is twice the population of Copenhagen. Vancouver is slightly larger.
TWICE the population?! Don't complain about Americans overstating their metro areas vs Canadian ones when you are perfectely comfortable to do the same with Canadian ones.

It's not so simple and straightforward. Just like Canadian CMAs are more strictely defined than US MSAs, different definitions exist for the Copenhagen area. Who's to say which one is the right one?

Montreal has 3,8 million
Vancouver has 2,4 million

Copenhagen has 2 million (2,4 according to the OECD)
Copenhagen-Malmo has 2,6 million
Copenhagen-Malmo-Helsingborg has 3 million
And the whole Øresund Region has 3,8 million
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #48  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 5:55 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 30,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHiRO View Post
Toronto only has 3 freeways, while Hamburg has multiple highways circling the center. We're still waiting on a satellite pic or map on which you indicate where these are. Oh and the big surface parking lot in front of the station...
I can't believe I'm wasting time with this, but here is the Hamburg central station surface parking lot you claimed doesn't exist-

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ha...5c80b97a016024

And here is a Hamburg example of the typical postwar auto-oriented rebuilding, with a belt highway, modern office blocks, and limited pedestrian accommodations, yet right downtown. Hamburg is actually better than most German cities in this regard; at least there aren't the limited access highways with weird tunnels and overpasses common in other cities.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ha...5c80b97a016024
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #49  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 5:58 PM
alchemist redux alchemist redux is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Who is this person? Some sort of transportation planner? An urban affairs expert? No - the extent of her credentials appear to be that she visited Canada for a few weeks.

Considering that, why is this even an article? It's not enlightening, it's not well-informed, it's just the whining anecdotes of one tourist out of millions (why does this deserve to be published out of all of those others?). There are plenty of criticisms to be made of Canada's car culture & suburban planning - but this is just poorly written, hyperbolic, condescending, unhelpful rubbish.

Regardless of the content, it's a sad state of affairs when any idiot on the internet can have their opinion published by a major media source.
Agreed. Although I have to say it's chiefly the fault of the media outlet for printing what is essentially an uninformed rant.

And even though I'm projecting somewhat, I think it's a trademark Canadian failing. One of the things I like least about our culture [I'm a Canadian] is that we are thin-skinned and we care what other people think about us. All cultures do, to some extent, but few other countries would give airtime to some nobody.

Quote:
Huh? Montreal is twice the population of Copenhagen. Vancouver is slightly larger.
I think he meant Copenhagen-Malmo, as opposed to Copenhagen. But I think your point still stands: Copenhagen-Malmo is not really a unified metro in the true sense. The two cities do not share a language or currency. Zealand, the Danish island that basically contains any settlement that could conceivably be considered to be part of the Copenhagen metro has the same population as Metro Vancouver, a distinct, legal jurisdiction governed by a regional authority (and which doesn't include the municipalities of the Fraser Valley which could also be decidedly, although not officially, part of the Vancouver metro).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #50  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 5:59 PM
kool maudit's Avatar
kool maudit kool maudit is offline
video et taceo
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 13,867
copenhagen feels about the size of vancouver. it's smaller than montreal, but larger than ottawa or something*. i don't have an enormous problem with what this woman wrote. she probably should have gone to the plateau or something (it's easily as fun as vesterbro or whatever), but a lot of canada does present itself in a car-oriented way. take it for what it is: a rant, a perspective. it's not like the united nations got together and released a position paper on why canada sucks.

* copenhagen and malmo are certainly one metro, but you can't just add malmo into copenhagen when discussing urban feel etc... it's its own city, and it's across that strait.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #51  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 6:05 PM
kool maudit's Avatar
kool maudit kool maudit is offline
video et taceo
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 13,867
people are free to dislike places. you don't have to be a credentialed authority to deliver a negative opinion. the word "hater" bespeaks a generational problem.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #52  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 6:07 PM
kool maudit's Avatar
kool maudit kool maudit is offline
video et taceo
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 13,867
(helsingborg is a bit of a stretch, though. even helsingør sort of is).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #53  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 6:14 PM
SHiRO's Avatar
SHiRO SHiRO is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 15,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I can't believe I'm wasting time with this, but here is the Hamburg central station surface parking lot you claimed doesn't exist-

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ha...5c80b97a016024


That's your "big surface parking lot"?! I knew you meant that one, but no Crawford, that is not a "big surface parking lot" by any stretch of the imagination! That is limited parking for dropping of people at the station and a freaking taxi stand! There is only room for 98 cars, maximum stay 60 minutes at the cost of €2,-/hour.

Quote:
And here is a Hamburg example of the typical postwar auto-oriented rebuilding, with a belt highway, modern office blocks, and limited pedestrian accommodations, yet right downtown. Hamburg is actually better than most German cities in this regard; at least there aren't the limited access highways with weird tunnels and overpasses common in other cities.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ha...5c80b97a016024


Wow... And that's your highway, one of many circling the city... You truly have become a charicature of yourself Crawford calling that a highway. That is what we call a regular surface street. These are the highways surrounding Hamburg, not one is circling the city center:

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #54  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 6:21 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 30,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHiRO View Post


That's your "big surface parking lot"?! I knew you meant that one, but no Crawford, that is not a "big surface parking lot" by any stretch of the imagination! That is limited parking for dropping of people at the station and a freaking taxi stand!
Shiro, it's a parking lot, which is exactly what I wrote, and exactly what you claimed doesn't exist.

No, it isn't a parking lot for taxis. No, it isn't a "limited parking for dropping of people". It's a regular (and quite large) surface parking lot, for regular cars, with metered parking, and right in front of the station entrance, right downtown, in the very heart of Hamburg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SHiRO View Post
Wow... And that's your highway, one of many circling the city... You truly have become a charicature of yourself Crawford calling that a highway. That is what we call a regular surface street. These are the highways surrounding Hamburg, not one is circling the city center:
No, this is a postwar highway. It most definitely isn't a "regular surface street", and you know it.

It's limited access, limited pedestrian accommodations (see no sidewalk at street and no retail), wider, higher speed, some elevated crossings, and no pedestrians. 99% of urban German streets look nothing like this. It's just bad postwar planning.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #55  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 6:23 PM
kool maudit's Avatar
kool maudit kool maudit is offline
video et taceo
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 13,867
i love ssp. now we're on the specific dimensions of hanseatic parking lots.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #56  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 6:25 PM
kool maudit's Avatar
kool maudit kool maudit is offline
video et taceo
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 13,867
with the goal of determining: EUROPE VS. NORTH AMERICA.

for the championship belt.

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #57  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 6:32 PM
MonkeyRonin's Avatar
MonkeyRonin MonkeyRonin is offline
¥ ¥ ¥
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 9,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHiRO View Post
TWICE the population?! Don't complain about Americans overstating their metro areas vs Canadian ones when you are perfectely comfortable to do the same with Canadian ones.

It's not so simple and straightforward. Just like Canadian CMAs are more strictely defined than US MSAs, different definitions exist for the Copenhagen area. Who's to say which one is the right one?

Montreal has 3,8 million
Vancouver has 2,4 million

Copenhagen has 2 million (2,4 according to the OECD)
Copenhagen-Malmo has 2,6 million
Copenhagen-Malmo-Helsingborg has 3 million
And the whole Øresund Region has 3,8 million

Montreal's CMA has around 4 million now. Considering that Copenhagen has around 2 million, then yes, that is twice the size. If you prefer to be pedantic and use 2.4 or 2.6 or whatever, then it doesn'thave literally twice the population, but it still has significantly more.

Either way, you said that "Montreal is almost the exact same size as Copenhagen-Malmo", which is only remotely true if you're comparing it to the Øresund Region, which is an area of some 21,000 sqkm spread between two countries. Montreal has nearly that many in its 1,500 sqkm urban area.
__________________
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #58  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 6:35 PM
MonkeyRonin's Avatar
MonkeyRonin MonkeyRonin is offline
¥ ¥ ¥
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 9,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHiRO View Post
And that means her opinion doesn't mean anything?

No more than this guy's:





(at least this one is entertaining)
__________________
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #59  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 7:26 PM
SHiRO's Avatar
SHiRO SHiRO is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 15,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
copenhagen feels about the size of vancouver. it's smaller than montreal, but larger than ottawa or something*. i don't have an enormous problem with what this woman wrote.
* copenhagen and malmo are certainly one metro, but you can't just add malmo into copenhagen when discussing urban feel etc... it's its own city, and it's across that strait.
I'll take your word for it since you are the only one who lived in both places.

Still, the claim was made that Denmark is a small country with small cities and I stand by my counterclaim that only Toronto is significantly larger (as in clearly a league above in "big cityness") than Copenhagen.
Copenhagen is not a small city, not in a Canadian context anyway.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #60  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 7:46 PM
SHiRO's Avatar
SHiRO SHiRO is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 15,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Shiro, it's a parking lot, which is exactly what I wrote, and exactly what you claimed doesn't exist.

No, it isn't a parking lot for taxis. No, it isn't a "limited parking for dropping of people". It's a regular (and quite large) surface parking lot, for regular cars, with metered parking, and right in front of the station entrance, right downtown, in the very heart of Hamburg.
No, you wrote about big surface parking lots. It's neither "quite large" (seriously?!), nor really a parking "lot". It is exactely what I wrote; limited parking (only space for <100 cars and you can only park there for an hour) and yes there is a taxi stand right next to it. Now stop being ridiculous.

Quote:
No, this is a postwar highway. It most definitely isn't a "regular surface street", and you know it.

It's limited access, limited pedestrian accommodations (see no sidewalk at street and no retail), wider, higher speed, some elevated crossings, and no pedestrians. 99% of urban German streets look nothing like this. It's just bad postwar planning.
Sigh... Dude, it is even called "Ludwig-Erhard-Straße"! You know what Straße means right? It's not "limited access" at all! It has side streets and traffic lights! Yes there is a sidewalk (are you blind?) there's even a bike path! The speed limit is 50 kph just like other German surface streets in urban centers, I do not see signs indicating otherwise. And where the fuck do you see elevated crossings?! So a stretch of it is lined with offices, that doesn't make it a highway all of a sudden! Among your ridiculous claims, this one is one of the more ridiculous ones. Everyone can see that this is not a highway, let alone there are multiple ones circling the city center. Geesh...

Last edited by SHiRO; Aug 6, 2014 at 7:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 1:01 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.