Favorite North American transit bus manufacturer?

[Pink Jazz]

Since this particular forum is for transportation, I would like to know if anyone has a favorite North American transit bus manufacturer.

I'm a New Flyer fan myself. I particularly like the New Flyer XN60 CNG articulated bus. Valley Metro RPTA will probably be getting some of these buses soon, although the contract for 40-foot buses is being awarded to Gillig.

[mrnyc]

nyc mta has new flyer articulated busses along with nova and orion. they all seem fine to me. i'd like the raising and lowering to be quieter on some of them, but that's about the only complaint i have.

[Busy Bee]

Is none of the above an option? I suppose Gillig is ok for smaller markets because of the no bullshit approach to what they offer and I would have to give kudos to New Flyer for at least partnering with Alex Dennis to offer their new Midi bus. Since I form my opinions admittedly based mostly on aesthetic concerns, I think most North American buses are horrible - clunky, bulky, cheap and outdated looking. As a rail advocate I hate to encourage buses in general but I do wish GM would get back in the game much the same way I wish GE would get back in the game with electric locos. If GM offered a sexy styled workhorse bus I think they would capture significant market share like they once had. Other than that, I'd like to see MAN re-enter the NA market as well as more agencies considering Van Hool and Benz.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Is none of the above an option? I suppose Gillig is ok for smaller markets because of the no bullshit approach to what they offer and I would have to give kudos to New Flyer for at least partnering with Alex Dennis to offer their new Midi bus. Since I form my opinions admittedly based mostly on aesthetic concerns, I think most North American buses are horrible - clunky, bulky, cheap and outdated looking. As a rail advocate I hate to encourage buses in general but I do wish GM would get back in the game much the same way I wish GE would get back in the game with electric locos. If GM offered a sexy styled workhorse bus I think they would capture significant market share like they once had. Other than that, I'd like to see MAN re-enter the NA market as well as more agencies considering Van Hool and Benz.

Be warned that European transit agencies on average only keep buses in service for 7 years, vs. the 12-year minimum required for heavy duty transit buses in the United States. European buses would have to get some significant modifications in order to pass the Altoona test.

[Busy Bee]

Where did you get that information? RATP operates Renault buses that have been in service for well over 10 years. Many US agencies replace well before 12 years.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Where did you get that information? RATP operates Renault buses that have been in service for well over 10 years. Many US agencies replace well before 12 years.

I do know that in the United States, heavy-duty buses are required to remain in service for a minimum of 12 years or 500,000 miles (whichever comes first) to be eligible for federal funding for replacement buses. To replace heavy-duty buses prior to that period requires a waiver from the Federal Transit Administration; this typically only occurs on buses that turn out to be lemons prematurely.

[bzcat]

I would vote for NABI but they don't exist anymore

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Is none of the above an option? I suppose Gillig is ok for smaller markets because of the no bullshit approach to what they offer and I would have to give kudos to New Flyer for at least partnering with Alex Dennis to offer their new Midi bus. Since I form my opinions admittedly based mostly on aesthetic concerns, I think most North American buses are horrible - clunky, bulky, cheap and outdated looking. As a rail advocate I hate to encourage buses in general but I do wish GM would get back in the game much the same way I wish GE would get back in the game with electric locos. If GM offered a sexy styled workhorse bus I think they would capture significant market share like they once had. Other than that, I'd like to see MAN re-enter the NA market as well as more agencies considering Van Hool and Benz.

Aesthetic is subjective so I will just leave it at that...

MAN, Van Hool, and Daimler were all in the market before but none of them can hack it. Daimler being the most recent to pack it up and go home with their Orion buses not getting enough orders.

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Where did you get that information? RATP operates Renault buses that have been in service for well over 10 years. Many US agencies replace well before 12 years.

Many US agencies

If the bus goes over 500,000 miles, they are eligible for retirement but generally speaking, the transit buses in the US age out (12 years) before they exceed 500,000 miles. Outside of a few isolated cases, I can't think of any example of early retirement.

Another important factor to consider regarding durability and why European buses typically have trouble in the US - US transit buses rack up a lot more mileage than European or Asian transit buses over their service lives. The typical London bus route is something like 12 km. The typical bus route in Los Angeles is 30 miles.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Where did you get that information? RATP operates Renault buses that have been in service for well over 10 years. Many US agencies replace well before 12 years.

In Winnipeg, Canada, it's total replacement in yr. 20, with a major engine overhaul in yr. 12.