2019 Population Estimate of Canadian Metropolitan Areas

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by edale

There are communities in places of the US where there are lots of unilingual Spanish speakers. I live in Los Angeles and am very familiar with this. But I can go essentially anywhere in the city and still be able to speak English. I assumed Quebec functioned like this, too. Like French is spoken in the home and among French people, but they all/most could at least hold a basic conversation in English. Quebec is a far more insular place than I realized.

Most people in Quebec will never need to speak english in their everyday life. French is the only official language in Quebec. The most important thing is that the francophone population is still growing.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Do french canadians have any special access rights to french citizenship (if they are so inclined to obtain such)?

None whatsoever.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by edale

There are communities in places of the US where there are lots of unilingual Spanish speakers. I live in Los Angeles and am very familiar with this. But I can go essentially anywhere in the city and still be able to speak English. I assumed Quebec functioned like this, too. Like French is spoken in the home and among French people, but they all/most could at least hold a basic conversation in English. Quebec is a far more insular place than I realized.

Unilingual Francophone Quebecers aren't any more "insular" than unilingual Anglophone New Yorkers are. It's the native language of the place - like most people in most places that's just how they live.

As an aside it's interesting how differently Americans can the presence of French in Canada. Some (mostly New Englanders, probably) seem to assume it's a predominantly Francophone or at least equally Anglo/Franco country; while others (probably the rest of the country) assume it's equivalent to Spanish in the States - as though it were just a minority language that's more commonly spoken in some places than others (but is never more than a 2nd language).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Unilingual Francophone Quebecers aren't any more "insular" than unilingual Anglophone New Yorkers are. It's the native language of the place - like most people in most places that's just how they live.

As an aside it's interesting how differently Americans can the presence of French in Canada. Some (mostly New Englanders, probably) seem to assume it's a predominantly Francophone or at least equally Anglo/Franco country; while others (probably the rest of the country) assume it's equivalent to Spanish in the States - as though it were just a minority language that's more commonly spoken in some places than others (but is never more than a 2nd language).

I suppose there aren't very many people in the U.S. who came to that country from China, Italy, Greece, Croatia, Russia, Portugal, Syria, etc., with no prior knowledge of English or Spanish, and as a result of simply living in the U.S. became native - even monolingual - speakers of Spanish.

The analogous situation with French exists with hundreds of thousands of people in Quebec.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by edale

Just want to say this is a fascinating discussion. It's true, I never realized Quebec was so French. I've been to Montreal and Quebec City a few times, and while I know that French is widely spoken, I guess my exposure to just the tourist and cosmopolitan areas led me to believe that it was truly a bilingual society, and that people just spoke French to hold on to their cultural identity. I had no idea that Quebec had its own film industry, or that movies from France would also be popular there. It makes sense, but for some reason I just assumed the French connection in Quebec was more symbolic than anything.

This is not slag, but I am very surprised that you'd come to that conclusion if you've visited Montreal and Quebec City a few times.

I would normally expect this from someone who was simply dropped into the area of downtown Montreal near McGill University, and didn't see much else of the city.

Otherwise it seems to me there are lots of cues about these things in any city: the language of road and highway signs, the language of magazines on racks at supermarket and corner store checkouts, the language cops use on the radio, the language of print-outs you get as receipts from businesses, the language of billboards, the language of public announcement on transit vehicles, the language that most kids seem to go to school in...

I mean, both San Juan, Puerto Rico and Laredo, Texas are probably 97% Hispanic, but when you're there there are lots of cues in each one of them that point to differing roles for Spanish and English, depending on which city you are in.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Unilingual Francophone Quebecers aren't any more "insular" than unilingual Anglophone New Yorkers are. It's the native language of the place - like most people in most places that's just how they live.

As an aside it's interesting how differently Americans can the presence of French in Canada. Some (mostly New Englanders, probably) seem to assume it's a predominantly Francophone or at least equally Anglo/Franco country; while others (probably the rest of the country) assume it's equivalent to Spanish in the States - as though it were just a minority language that's more commonly spoken in some places than others (but is never more than a 2nd language).

Some Americans also seem to equate French in Quebec with French in Louisiana.

Conversely, there are people in France who equate French in Louisiana with French in Quebec.

[lio45]

Yeah, it's pretty much impossible to spend any time anywhere in Quebec City and fail to notice everything is taking place in French.

In Montreal, there are many pockets of "Anglosphere" though - and not only the West Island.

My good friend (and business partner these years) is in the Mile End, so I've been there often lately, one could perfectly well live in his neighborhood while unilingually anglophone. He has relatives overseas (in Israel) and if they visited him and mostly stayed in his area, they might reach the same conclusion as edale.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by lio45

In Montreal, there are many pockets of "Anglosphere" though - and not only the West Island.

My good friend (and business partner these years) is in the Mile End, so I've been there often lately, one could perfectly well live in his neighborhood while unilingually anglophone. He has relatives overseas (in Israel) and if they visited him and mostly stayed in his area, they might reach the same conclusion as edale.

You can live there as a unilingual Anglophone, but it'd still be tough not to notice that you're in a predominantly Francophone place.

Every time I've been to Montreal I've stayed in the Plateau/Mile End area, and it definitely strikes me that French is the dominant language on the street. "Bonjour" is the default greeting of any shop you walk into; announcements are in French as soon as you step on the Metro; and of course, anywhere that words are written it's either in French-only or French with English subtitles.

[jd3189]

It helps to have family who lives in the suburbs around Montreal like Brossard and Dorval. It's pretty much just all French in those areas.

[edale]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This is not slag, but I am very surprised that you'd come to that conclusion if you've visited Montreal and Quebec City a few times.

I would normally expect this from someone who was simply dropped into the area of downtown Montreal near McGill University, and didn't see much else of the city.

Otherwise it seems to me there are lots of cues about these things in any city: the language of road and highway signs, the language of magazines on racks at supermarket and corner store checkouts, the language cops use on the radio, the language of print-outs you get as receipts from businesses, the language of billboards, the language of public announcement on transit vehicles, the language that most kids seem to go to school in...

I mean, both San Juan, Puerto Rico and Laredo, Texas are probably 97% Hispanic, but when you're there there are lots of cues in each one of them that point to differing roles for Spanish and English, depending on which city you are in.

I never had a problem ordering at a restaurant, getting directions, or any of the things a tourist would normally do. I went to the tennis tournament in Montreal and had no issues navigating there. I know that the street signs and most of public life is conducted in French, but I thought that was more a result of trying to hang on to culture, and that most people also knew English.

I think it's hard to understand from an American perspective because the idea of me, a Californian, not being able to converse with someone from say, Pennsylvania, is so completely foreign. It's just hard to wrap my head around.

[Darkoshvilli]

Originally Posted by jd3189

It helps to have family who lives in the suburbs around Montreal like Brossard and Dorval. It's pretty much just all French in those areas.

Dorval and Brossard are hardly just French. There are much frenchier suburbs like Anjou, Boucherville, Montreal-Est etc.

[dc_denizen]

Yeah Some of the suburbs are very French. I biked all the way to the eastern tip of the island, and some of the people out taking the sun looked like they came from a certain Gaulish village..

[Darkoshvilli]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Yeah Some of the suburbs are very French. I biked all the way to the eastern tip of the island, and some of the people out taking the sun looked like they came from a certain Gaulish village..

The eastern tip of the island is home to some of Quebecs staunchest separatists.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

You can live there as a unilingual Anglophone, but it'd still be tough not to notice that you're in a predominantly Francophone place.

Every time I've been to Montreal I've stayed in the Plateau/Mile End area, and it definitely strikes me that French is the dominant language on the street. "Bonjour" is the default greeting of any shop you walk into; announcements are in French as soon as you step on the Metro; and of course, anywhere that words are written it's either in French-only or French with English subtitles.

The Plateau is a lot more francophone than the most "Anglo" Mile End pockets though, so your general experience there doesn't surprise me.

(In Quebec, "Anglo" in practice can == "Jewish".)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Do french canadians have any special access rights to french citizenship (if they are so inclined to obtain such)?

Absolutely not, Canadians are considered total foreigners like the rest of the planet, BUT that being said, anyone who's already fluent in French probably has an edge, everything else in their candidacy being equal.

Often, perceived "special access" is really just about language. A good example would be the huge numbers of Québécois nurses in Western Switzerland. That country has a policy of welcoming foreign skilled nurses, and since we here are another First World Country with First World-caliber diplomas and already fluent in the language, we're a choice source.

The result is a "brain drain" of people that we were stupid enough to turn into skilled/desirable nurses (many with BSc-level diplomas) through nearly free tuition with no strings attached - a direct gift to the Swiss.

[PFloyd]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Yeah Some of the suburbs are very French. I biked all the way to the eastern tip of the island, and some of the people out taking the sun looked like they came from a certain Gaulish village..

C'mon, who do you think you are fooling? we know you've never been to Canada.

[dc_denizen]

I have, Toronto once and Montreal twice

Montreal was nice, kind of like a French speaking Philadelphia or Boston

I assume you have never been to those American cities, of course (or last visited in 1972)

[PFloyd]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

I have, Toronto once and Montreal twice

Montreal was nice, kind of like a French speaking Philadelphia or Boston

I assume you have never been to those American cities, of course (or last visited in 1972)

I don't usually reply to trolls, but I am making an exception here. I MOVED TO CANADA FROM THE US. And I stand by my earlier comment: you've never been to Canada.

[dc_denizen]

I’m not surprised —immigrants are often the most ardent defenders of their adopted country.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

I’m not surprised —immigrants are often the most ardent defenders of their adopted country.

Yeah, not surprised as well.

BTW PFloyd it's extremely likely that any NYCer interested in cities / urban affairs would have gone to Montreal at least once. It's not far and it's a natural destination.

Same for us - anyone who lives in Southern Quebec who has an interest in cities has gone to NYC in their life already. It's close enough and a cheap trip.

No reason at all to doubt it. Even without asking I'm assuming any NYer or Bostonian on this forum (people like Crawford, Shawn, JManc, etc.) has been to Montreal already.