Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[ajiuO]

Every person should have a copy of this.

UDOT Click 'n Fix by SeeClickFix

[Hatman]

Two great posts, downtownslcresident and slc801. Love it.

I was wondering if anyone had seen this graphic posted in its own thread on the 'transportation' page. I like how SLC's system at least appears comparible with the others, even though it was built for generally half the price (and half the track, but no matter!). I'm just glad that SLC is on this list of cities, considering how many are not.

[jedikermit]

^^^^

At first I thought this was TRAX/Light Rail, not Streetcar. Interesting.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

Every person should have a copy of this.

UDOT Click 'n Fix by SeeClickFix

I'm not none else sure I like it. So UDOT, the Highway Patrol and everyone else are stressing the importance of not using your phone, particularly texting while driving. So while going 70 mph down I-15 I'm suppose to remember exactly where that pothole was, when I finally get off the freeway and to a stopping point, 20, 10 or even 2 miles later? Either that or I have to do it while I'm driving.

I don't see it working to well.

[Makid]

2014 Third Quarter Ridership Report:

http://www.apta.com/resources/statis...rship-APTA.pdf

Q1 2014:

Frontrunner - 15.2K up 18.29% over Q1 2013 at 13.0K
Trax - 65.8K up 11.71% over Q1 2013 at 59.7K
Bus - 71.4K down -7.05% over Q1 2013 at 76.8K

Q2 2014:

Frontrunner - 15.0K up 18.64% over Q2 2013 at 12.7K
Trax - 61.8K up 6.79% over Q2 2013 at 57.6K
Bus - 64.1K down -4.44% over Q2 2013 at 66.6K

Q3 2014:

Frontrunner - 16.1K up 16.51% over Q3 2013 at 13.9K
Trax - 67.8K up 6.44% over Q3 2013 at 63.8K
Bus - 62.8K down -5.58% over Q2 2013 at 67K

Total for all transit options - 155.5K up 2.28% over Q3 2013

Current Year to date change vs. 2013

Frontrunner: 3,233.6K riders equating a 17.78% gain over 2013 year to date.
Trax: 14,673.1K riders equating to a 8.24% gain over 2013 year to date.
Bus: 13,661.1K riders equating a -5.74% loss compared to 2013 year to date.
All Transit: 33,241.5K riders equaling an increase of 2.58% gain over 2013 year to date.

We are showing that a recovering economy does improve transit usage. As more residential is built along the existing rail lines, ridership should continue to grow.

It is a little disconcerting to see bus ridership dropping but we are still seeing rail ridership growth exceeding the bus ridership drop.

Hopefully by this time next year, we will have a transit tax increase to expand bus routes, BRT and frequency across the transit area (expanded coverage of 15 minute or less bus frequency along more routes). This will help to attract new riders as transit speeds increase. It will also further help rail and overall ridership levels.

It will be interesting to see if UTA can reach their goal of doubling ridership from the year ending 2013 by 2020. If we can, it will put us well above our current level of 3+% ridership and should put us closer to 8%.

I do hope that Trax ridership goes up for December due to the $0.15 promotion. I am hoping that this will show that lowering the fare can increase ridership and a new lower fare ($1.50 or lower) can be found.

[asies1981]

New petition out to get UTA to extend route hours.

[Scraperdude801]

@Makid, the only reason bus ridership has been dropping is because routes that were historically 15 min intervals are now 30 minute, while other routes have been done away with altogether. There are a lot of people who could still use the bus service, but don't because it is so inconvenient.

For instance, I ride the bus everyday, but to get from my apartment on 3rd E and 2nd S to 1300 S and 1700 E where I work, I still end up walking 6 blocks each way, and this is one of the better routes I've lived on in terms of reliability. Sure, I could walk less and transfer more, but then my commute goes from 35 mins to 60-90 mins depending on the synchronicity of all the transfering busses. UTA has done this by design, so they can join the real estate game and beef up prices of land along the trax lines, as well as build more trax lines. I love the trains and TOD's, but I don't like the dishonesty.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by Scraperdude801

@Makid, the only reason bus ridership has been dropping is because routes that were historically 15 min intervals are now 30 minute, while other routes have been done away with altogether. There are a lot of people who could still use the bus service, but don't because it is so inconvenient.

For instance, I ride the bus everyday, but to get from my apartment on 3rd E and 2nd S to 1300 E and 1700 S where I work, I still end up walking 6 blocks each way, and this is one of the better routes I've lived on in terms of reliability. Sure, I could walk less and transfer more, but then my commute goes from 35 mins to 60-90 mins depending on the synchronicity of all the transfering busses. URA has done this by design, so they can join the real estate game and beef up prices of land along the trax lines, as well as build more trax lines. I love the trains, but I don't like the dishonesty.

I figured that it was due to bus frequency cuts. I think by restoring the frequency and increasing the frequencies on other lines to increase the number of lines with frequencies of 15 minutes better will further increase ridership for both bus and rail.

Also, I did look at previous years and it looks like Bus and Trax both see an increase of roughly 5,000 riders daily during the 4th quarter. With this, Trax will be over 72K average daily to continue to the 5+% increase Year over Year but Bus service will still be down roughly 5%.

I know that funding is being restored for some lines and frequencies and wish that it would be able to be increased without a dedicated tax increase.

With a tax increase, I would love to see something that allows the Counties to allow a vote for a tax increase for Bus frequency and expansion as well as a separate increase passed by Cities for general Transit improvements.

By this I mean that SL County could allow voting on the general frequencies and service across multiple boundaries while SLC/Sandy/West&South Jordans could all allow votes for transit improvements within their cities.

This way UTA could see passage of the general transit increase for Bus service frequency and BRT expansion while SLC could vote to expand Trax on 4th South to the Central Station, Street Car lines or a dedicated SLC Branded bus service.

Sandy would be able to vote on a connection between Trax and Frontrunner.

And so forth.

It is also possible that the cities could just ask voters to pass a general sales tax increase for transit. This would allow them to prioritize which items to do first and as each one is complete, move to the next project without needing to have it brought up for a re-vote.

I am not sure who said it but I think within SL County, we are nearly done with large scale rail expansion. 5600 West and possibly to the Cottonwood Canyons are the only real expansions left that would cross city boundaries.

This is why I am excited about bus expansion for the County. It is also why I am expecting cities to be the focus of their own transit expansions. This way Herriman, which has wanted a Trax line extension could get it without those in the rest of SL County needing to chip in for a lot of the expense as the benefits for the rest of the County are less.

Hopefully the bills to allow the increases will pass this upcoming session. If they do (and are subsequently accepted by voters), I think we will see ridership increase on all forms of transit and we start to see a fully fundamental shift in the perception of transit and its role in each community.

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by Scraperdude801

@Makid, the only reason bus ridership has been dropping is because routes that were historically 15 min intervals are now 30 minute, while other routes have been done away with altogether. There are a lot of people who could still use the bus service, but don't because it is so inconvenient.

For instance, I ride the bus everyday, but to get from my apartment on 3rd E and 2nd S to 1300 E and 1700 S where I work, I still end up walking 6 blocks each way, and this is one of the better routes I've lived on in terms of reliability. Sure, I could walk less and transfer more, but then my commute goes from 35 mins to 60-90 mins depending on the synchronicity of all the transfering busses. UTA has done this by design, so they can join the real estate game and beef up prices of land along the trax lines, as well as build more trax lines. I love the trains and TOD's, but I don't like the dishonesty.

If you take the 220 (which runs 15-30) you walk one block to 1st South... It takes like 15 minutes to get to westminster and it's a one block walk.

[CountyLemonade]

Originally Posted by Scraperdude801

@Makid, the only reason bus ridership has been dropping is because routes that were historically 15 min intervals are now 30 minute, while other routes have been done away with altogether.

There is no UTA route that runs every 30 minutes that used to run 15 minutes. The 2, 21, 33, 35M, 39, 41, 45, 47, 200, 205, 209, 217: These are routes that still run every 15 minutes and always have (except the 45). Very few routes have been eliminated altogether.

There's no doubt, however, that night service has taken a major hit. And this, I believe, is a major contributor to declining ridership. The 21, for example, used to run until past midnight. Now it runs until 9. How pathetic, but that's the current state of transit funding in this city.

For instance, I ride the bus everyday, but to get from my apartment on 3rd E and 2nd S to 1300 E and 1700 S where I work, I still end up walking 6 blocks each way, and this is one of the better routes I've lived on in terms of reliability. Sure, I could walk less and transfer more, but then my commute goes from 35 mins to 60-90 mins depending on the synchronicity of all the transfering busses.

Yeah, what jubguy said. The 220 is a block away from where you live and takes you straight to where you work.

UTA has done this by design, so they can join the real estate game and beef up prices of land along the trax lines, as well as build more trax lines. I love the trains and TOD's, but I don't like the dishonesty.

I really don't think that's true. UTA gets a set amount of funding and makes do with what it can for bus routes. Yeah, I wish less went toward executive salaries but that won't fund much in improvements.

[Scraperdude801]

Originally Posted by jubguy3

If you take the 220 (which runs 15-30) you walk one block to 1st South... It takes like 15 minutes to get to westminster and it's a one block walk.

1308 S and 1700 E. My bad,

I take the 220. The bus drops off like 1325 S and 1300 E. That's 4 and a half blocks to 1700 E, uphill. My apartment is more like 250 S and 300 E too, so a block and half. In total, that's roughly 6 blocks, 12 for round trip (the stop to go home isn't 1300 S, but more like 1150 S).

[brankrom]

Originally Posted by Scraperdude801

1308 S and 1700 E. My bad,

I take the 220. The bus drops off like 1325 S and 1300 E. That's 4 and a half blocks to 1700 E, uphill. My apartment is more like 250 S and 300 E too, so a block and half. In total, that's roughly 6 blocks, 12 for round trip (the stop to go home isn't 1300 S, but more like 1150 S).

Someone works at Salt or Harmon's Emigration Market ... I live in that 'hood too and I feel your transit pain. Probably the best bus for you is the 223 or the 17. the former has a TERRIBLE 90 minute service level and the 17 runs every 30 minutes but dies around 7 pm. Years ago there used to be a #13 bus that ran from Ballpark to Foothill village, but it died probably 10 years ago.

There is no possible reason it should take 45 minutes to get from 200 S and Main to 900 S and 1500 East but UTA has found a way. The worst though is that UTA has made transfer times so razor thin that well over 80% of the time I'm watching the bus that I'm trying to transfer to go across the front window of the bus I'm on... it sucks.

[Scraperdude801]

Originally Posted by brankrom

Someone works at Salt or Harmon's Emigration Market ... I live in that 'hood too and I feel your transit pain. Probably the best bus for you is the 223 or the 17. the former has a TERRIBLE 90 minute service level and the 17 runs every 30 minutes but dies around 7 pm. Years ago there used to be a #13 bus that ran from Ballpark to Foothill village, but it died probably 10 years ago.

There is no possible reason it should take 45 minutes to get from 200 S and Main to 900 S and 1500 East but UTA has found a way. The worst though is that UTA has made transfer times so razor thin that well over 80% of the time I'm watching the bus that I'm trying to transfer to go across the front window of the bus I'm on... it sucks.

I actually work at Silverado Inc. (a general contractor) as a bookkeeper. We actually were the ones who dismantled the ZCMI facade at City Creek (but didn't put it back up), did the railings at the conference center and Grand America, etc. we mostly do fine interior remodels in the Yalecrest neighborhood, though.

I used to ride the 17 after transferring from Trax when I lived in Murray. The 220 is the most reliable/convenient route. I too feel your paun about buses pulling away just as you are arriving to transfer. Either you miss the bus altogether, or you transfer at Trax and end up waiting 10-15 mins for your bus to actually drive away. I've lived in many other cities, and it's only like this here.

The bus on 1300 S was the one I was reminiscing about being done away with. I used to ride that a lot when I was in high school.

[CountyLemonade]

There's never been a bus going between Ballpark Station and Foothill Village along 1300 South. You may be thinking of the old 5-Parleys Way line that ran in the area, or the 13-Canyon Rim. It's definitely a thoroughfare that deserves good east-west transit service, however.

In fact, in my reworking of the Salt Lake transit system I included such a line, the 13-1300 South. The 211-Highland Park also exists to provide a much-needed direct connection between the Harvard-Yale/Wasatch Hollow neighborhoods and the central city.

I bring that up because we all have our own ideas how to make our bus system better than it is. Seriously, go to transitmix.net and imagine your own routes. And let's discuss them here. Because we all agree that there needs to be something done to reverse the slow-but-steady slide in bus ridership that this city has experienced.

[brankrom]

My mistake about the 13 going from Ballpark to Foothill. It was probably more likely 1300 East and 1300 South to Foothill and prior to the build out of Trax but I didn't live in Yalecrest then. The thing is the bus benches and loading areas still exist on 1300 South between 1300 East Foothill. An interesting addition though this year to the 'hood was a UofU shuttle that did peak hour loops from the Huntsman center to 1700 South and 1500 E and 1700 and 1900 East but it was just a pilot program and bit the dust this semester.

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by brankrom

My mistake about the 13 going from Ballpark to Foothill. It was probably more likely 1300 East and 1300 South to Foothill and prior to the build out of Trax but I didn't live in Yalecrest then. The thing is the bus benches and loading areas still exist on 1300 South between 1300 East Foothill. An interesting addition though this year to the 'hood was a UofU shuttle that did peak hour loops from the Huntsman center to 1700 South and 1500 E and 1700 and 1900 East but it was just a pilot program and bit the dust this semester.

Wait, they cancelled the red flyer?

[Makid]

I have been thinking lately about the low gas prices and the projection that they will continue for a couple of years.

This thinking revolved around UTA and the transit fare increases they passed because of the price of gas. If I recall correctly, UTA has added roughly between $1.00 and $1.25 to the price of a ticket due to the cost of gas.

This would reduce the cost of a fare to between $1.50 and $1.25 for general bus and Trax, Frontrunner would drop about 50% as well on average.

Currently UTA receives close $50 Million (estimated by me) in fares (based on $2.50 and 44 Million rides, counting possible transfers and fare evaders). The savings in fuel should result in $20 to $25 Million a year in savings that can be applied for the following:

I have been pushing lowering the fare to increase ridership but, in this case since the fares would be coming down based on the price of gas, I had a different though.

Rather than lower the fare, why not use the extra revenue (roughly doubling the revenue from fares) and using this money to increase bus frequency along only the higher ridership routes and add the Black Line (Trax).

The reason for the selective additions is that we may see increased ridership with the increased service but we won't need to worry about the riders switching if the fares are increased (as everyone is already used to the current fare structure).

I also would only add the bus frequency by 2 routes every 3 to 4 months so that the expense doesn't pass the newly added revenue.

I am not sure which routes to add frequency to first but I am torn between speedier service along State Street & Redwood Road or to take some of the hour frequency routes and bring them to 30 minutes.

Of course, if they only added frequency to 1 or 2 routes while also adding the Black line, UTA could then use some of the funds to pay down some bonds and lower their debt level.

With approximately $2 Million needed for the Black line (matching funds from the Feds) or total of $4 Million a year for the line, this would mean that we should be able to reasonably add the Black line and 2 frequency additions and still have some funds left over for debt payments.

I wouldn't be against lowering fares but as gas prices increase, fares would need to be increased again, by leaving the fare at the current level, we wouldn't need to worry about the fares being increased until gas tops $4.50 or so per gallon again.

Anyone else have thoughts on what UTA should do with the excess revenue?

[Hatman]

I like the way you think, Makid. Lower fares would be nice, but increased service for the same fares is even better. (Basic Freakonomics - the sense of loss is a much more powerful motivator than a sense of gain, meaning that a drop in fares will not equal the same change in ridership as a fare increase...)

It's such a strange thing to consider, excess revenue. I'll have to give this some thought.
The Black Line is an obvious candidate. That should have happened years ago. Increasing bus frequency is also great. Extending service hours is fine as well.
Perhaps not dipping into reserve funds, like UTA is currently planning to do:
http://www.sltrib.com/news/1961802-1...oliday-service

And if all those things still leave extra money, I've always wondered why UTA isn't experimenting with this sort of thing on its busiest routes:
• Video Link

Yes, I know, it's perverse to suggest an electric bus when fuel prices are so cheap - but on hilly routes, such as around the U, the regenerative braking and extra power from the electric motor make so much more sense than using any sort of combustion engine. Maintenance costs should be considered too when adding up the costs of diesel/natural gas vs electric.

Just my initial thoughts.

[CountyLemonade]

Originally Posted by Makid

I have been thinking lately about the low gas prices and the projection that they will continue for a couple of years.

This thinking revolved around UTA and the transit fare increases they passed because of the price of gas. If I recall correctly, UTA has added roughly between $1.00 and $1.25 to the price of a ticket due to the cost of gas.

This would reduce the cost of a fare to between $1.50 and $1.25 for general bus and Trax, Frontrunner would drop about 50% as well on average.

Currently UTA receives close $50 Million (estimated by me) in fares (based on $2.50 and 44 Million rides, counting possible transfers and fare evaders). The savings in fuel should result in $20 to $25 Million a year in savings that can be applied for the following:

I have been pushing lowering the fare to increase ridership but, in this case since the fares would be coming down based on the price of gas, I had a different though.

Rather than lower the fare, why not use the extra revenue (roughly doubling the revenue from fares) and using this money to increase bus frequency along only the higher ridership routes and add the Black Line (Trax).

The reason for the selective additions is that we may see increased ridership with the increased service but we won't need to worry about the riders switching if the fares are increased (as everyone is already used to the current fare structure).

I also would only add the bus frequency by 2 routes every 3 to 4 months so that the expense doesn't pass the newly added revenue.

I am not sure which routes to add frequency to first but I am torn between speedier service along State Street & Redwood Road or to take some of the hour frequency routes and bring them to 30 minutes.

Of course, if they only added frequency to 1 or 2 routes while also adding the Black line, UTA could then use some of the funds to pay down some bonds and lower their debt level.

With approximately $2 Million needed for the Black line (matching funds from the Feds) or total of $4 Million a year for the line, this would mean that we should be able to reasonably add the Black line and 2 frequency additions and still have some funds left over for debt payments.

I wouldn't be against lowering fares but as gas prices increase, fares would need to be increased again, by leaving the fare at the current level, we wouldn't need to worry about the fares being increased until gas tops $4.50 or so per gallon again.

Anyone else have thoughts on what UTA should do with the excess revenue?

You've just gotta remember that UTA primarily uses diesel fuel, not regular unleaded. Diesel's still between $3 and $3.50, so UTA's not seeing huge savings in fuel expenses just yet.

[Hatman]

^^^
Bummer. I should have known such a thing was too good to be true.