Idaho Falls/Pocatello Development Thread

[IFguy]

Just for fun I thought I would put the Iogen deal into perspective based on project values.

Iogen: Valued approx: $400 million
13 Story Marriott (if it happens) Valued approx: $26 million
Grupo Modelo (Corona Malting Plant) Valued approx: $64 million
Budweiser (Malting Plant) Value I could find: $75 million

Kind of puts things into perspective as far as the size of the project and the future and current impacts on the economy goes.

The plant may be built in Shelly but the impacts will be felt all over East Idaho. Idaho Falls will more than likely continue to gain in the commercial sectors and this type of a project should attract more high tech (and yes this is high tech) companies to the area.

A few days ago someone mentioned that Mayor Fuhriman saw a need for more industrial room in Idaho Falls. My advice to him would be to start a coalition with the cities of Shelly, Ucon, and Rigby and the counties of Bingham and Jefferson and try to get larger industry to locate there. There is more expansive land on the order of 100+ acres that big industries would need plus rail access and Idaho Falls can continue it's direction of being the central city in the region. By leaving the I-15 corridor open to commercial interests and Bonneville county open to residential, everyone would win. My opinion though, what do you all think?

[N2I.F.]

Many have visited this site to inquire about INL and the overall economic impact ot the lab. Courtesy of "Idaho News" I will post the following and you decide for yoursel.

Just remember, these numbers of employees and economic impact were calculated prior to breaking ground on CAES last week - for International Education and Research of Nuclear Fuels and prior to the $80M the DOE promised IOGEN this week.


Idaho National Lab Contributes $85 Million to Idaho's Economy

"With 8,452 employees, the Idaho National Labratory is the third largest employer in Idaho.
BOISE, Idaho (Feb. 28, 2007) —Combined research, cleanup and administrative operations at the Idaho National Laboratory site make it Idaho’s third largest employer, pumping $85 million annually into the state’s tax coffers and accounting for 2.52 percent of personal income in the state, according to research recently completed at Boise State University.

The Idaho National Labratory contracted with the Center for Business and Economic Research at Boise State last June to measure and analyze its impact on the state economy.

Among the report’s key findings:

— The Idaho National Labratory is the third largest employer in Idaho. With 8,452 employees and an annual budget of about $1.23 billion, it ranks behind only state government and Micron Technology, and is by far the largest employer in eastern Idaho.

— Its operations annually account for 19,860 jobs in Idaho. The combined direct and secondary economic impacts account for 15,570 jobs in the state. In addition, there are longer-term effects on the economy due to the continued presence of the lab in eastern Idaho, accounting for an additional 4,290 jobs.

— The lab annually accounts for 2.7 percent of total Idaho employment. With 733,400 people employed in Idaho in 2006, the direct and secondary impacts of the Idaho National Labratory account for 2.1 percent of the total workforce in the state and more than 9 percent of employment in eastern Idaho. Including the longer-term effects on employment, the lab accounts for 2.7 percent of Idaho employment.

— The Idaho National Lab accounts annually for 2.52 percent of personal income in the state. The direct and secondary effects on personal income amount to $1.108 billion annually.

— Fiscal impacts of Idaho state tax revenues by the lab and its employees approach $85 million. The Idaho National Labratory and its employees make payments to the state in the form of personal income, corporate income, sales and other taxes. In total, the lab accounts for 3 percent of total Idaho tax revenues.

— Direct tax payments to the state of Idaho by the Idaho National Labratory and its employees exceed the cost of state-provided services. The total state budget per capita is $1,442. State tax payments by the employees for themselves and their families amount to $1,926 per capita.

— The lab employees also contributed 221,000 hours of volunteer services in Idaho.

The research took into consideration INL’s rural location.

The work was done by Boise State faculty members Geoff Black, Don Holley and John Church. The economists took a unique approach to their research, analyzing the economic impact of the Idaho National Labratory specific to its location in rural Idaho, and recently presented their findings at a professional conference.

The Center for Business and Economic Research’s primary mission is to issue economic forecasts for the regions of Idaho. Reseachers have also completed studies on the dairy industry and early childhood development since beginning work last spring."

[IFguy]

For those of you interested in the "Ball Mall" here is a good find:

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/MainSite...lww2t006a00001

WOW, is the westside of IF ever going to look different!

[eastidaho]

I'll weigh in.

WOW, is the westside of IF ever going to look different!

Nice find IFGuy. I think “those interested” will find the rendering to be reassuring that the convention center and community rec center are still being considered. Personally, the inclusion of a pedestrian only walkway lined with retail and patio dining got me excited when I first heard about this project awhile back. To see that walkway cutting northwest from the river to that main north/south road makes me

My hope is that urban area in the rendering gets built close to the way it looks in the rendering. It appears very pedestrian friendly, landscaping is prominent, and while height is not included the density of those 2-3 story buildings is right. But I wonder where all the parking lots are being hidden because this is Idaho Falls after all.

What an architect’s sketch is, and what BV’s clients want can be very different. IMO, if BV doesn’t get involved in developing that center area it is a dream. So I still have reservations about the final outcome of this project. The information section and master plan on Loopnet supports the idea that BV is working on zoning, subdividing, and selling lots, and may not include creating an urban environment with unique features. The question for me is: How involved is BV going to be in the actual design and architectural elements of that center area?

Maybe BV’s past work makes me skeptical. The use of corporate plans to construct cookie-cutter type structures that maximize return and support an auto centric environment, such as the Hilton U/C right now is an example of this. Also, the yet tbd building I mentioned that would go in southwest of the current structure would be owned by a person who in the past has built and designed his own buildings. They are okay one-story structures but they don't include the design elements in the rendering and are surrounded by a lot of surface parking. If the rumors about car dealerships and fast food restraunts play out, it leads me to believe SRL is about buyers who will bring their one-size fits all type buildings and parking.

Worse case, this project is still good for Idaho Falls, because it improves the entrance to our city and will bring $$$$$$ off of I-15 into our city where it belongs. Best case, BV proves I am and pulls that lake area off without a hitch.

[SmilingBob]

Originally Posted by IFguy

Federal funding for the ethanol plant between IF and Shelly has FINALLY been approved! From what I have heard previously, the project has it's location and everything is in place. Now as soon as the funding is secured, construction can begin.

Go Russets!!!
What other alchohol can you make out of spuds besides ethanol?

I take it this going in between Shelley and Firth? Just south of Shelley city limits? I haven't seen a map and the family hasn't paid much attention to it.

Any idea how the materials will be transported in? Trucks? Seems like a lot of trucks everyday. Imagine spud harvest time? Big doins for small town Shelley. Not much has happened in that town in a long time.

[N2I.F.]

Originally Posted by SmilingBob

Go Russets!!!
What other alchohol can you make out of spuds besides ethanol?

I take it this going in between Shelley and Firth? Just south of Shelley city limits? I haven't seen a map and the family hasn't paid much attention to it.

Any idea how the materials will be transported in? Trucks? Seems like a lot of trucks everyday. Imagine spud harvest time? Big doins for small town Shelley. Not much has happened in that town in a long time.

Hey, Smiling Bob,

Vodka is the simple answer to your question.

Since this is a geographical area where you and I both have some common ground (no pun intended), let me tell you some of what I know so far.

This was originally proposed for Bonneville County as the Regional Alliance has worked with Iogen and INL to make this deal happen. However, as construction with Maleleucca, then Sunnyside Exit etc. on the west of the main highway between Shelley and Idaho Falls started "filling in," then the search committee had to look elsewhere. This has been 2.5-3.0 years in the making. Sure, 4B County will take the credit, but they really didn't do the work. However, residents all over eastern ID and I think the Intermountain West (certainly UT and western WY) will benefit from this project too.

Besides the construction jobs, and jobs in the two plants, there will be a lot of support companies and I anticipate a lot of spin-offs. And, Iogen has the technology. Their plants in Canada are producing ethanol already. And they have the big bucks backing of companies like Shell Oil. So it's not like waiting for a totally new company to research and develop a technique. If the DOE hadn't come through, Iogen was starting talks with Germany. This really is a "win" for the state of Idaho and the U.S.

I think one key componenet for Iogen was keeping the actual plant close to the railroad, as that is how they plan initially to transport their product. Otherwise, New Sweeden or farther west in Bonneville County, could have been options. But, as you know, there are only so many miles of highway by the railroad. And obviously, the east and south sides, and now the north end of Bonneville County are experiecing such fast growth, it really doesn't make sense to try to put the plant along those 5 miles between Shelley and the Aneheuser Busch plant.

Besides, if visitors came to the area an saw Aneheuser Busch, Grupo Modelo and the Iogen within 5 miles, some people could be very confused about residents of eastern ID.

I earlier commented that now Shelley was being announced as 5 miles south of I.F. in the press releases. My comment was about annexation as I remember the days when it use to be more than 5 miles and the road hasn't changed. But, the annexation of I.F. south has not stopped.

From the descriptions of where it will be, which are NOW available everywhere, I'm with you. It sounds to me like it will be just south of the Shelley City Limits.

Maybe someone will learn about the infamous Burbank Russets, after reading about Iogen, and propose a plant for Vodka. Or did someone already do that in Rigby? I can't remember.

Anyway, I'm glad you stopped by to see what was up. It's always great when our neighbors drop in, and I know a few in the Wastatch Metro area have been reading this thread this week. Odd how our neighbors to the west don't seem to desire quite as much information right now as our Wasatch Metro friends.

[IFguy]

Originally Posted by eastidaho

I'll weigh in.




Nice find IFGuy. I think “those interested” will find the rendering to be reassuring that the convention center and community rec center are still being considered. Personally, the inclusion of a pedestrian only walkway lined with retail and patio dining got me excited when I first heard about this project awhile back. To see that walkway cutting northwest from the river to that main north/south road makes me

My hope is that urban area in the rendering gets built close to the way it looks in the rendering. It appears very pedestrian friendly, landscaping is prominent, and while height is not included the density of those 2-3 story buildings is right. But I wonder where all the parking lots are being hidden because this is Idaho Falls after all.

What an architect’s sketch is, and what BV’s clients want can be very different. IMO, if BV doesn’t get involved in developing that center area it is a dream. So I still have reservations about the final outcome of this project. The information section and master plan on Loopnet supports the idea that BV is working on zoning, subdividing, and selling lots, and may not include creating an urban environment with unique features. The question for me is: How involved is BV going to be in the actual design and architectural elements of that center area?

Maybe BV’s past work makes me skeptical. The use of corporate plans to construct cookie-cutter type structures that maximize return and support an auto centric environment, such as the Hilton U/C right now is an example of this. Also, the yet tbd building I mentioned that would go in southwest of the current structure would be owned by a person who in the past has built and designed his own buildings. They are okay one-story structures but they don't include the design elements in the rendering and are surrounded by a lot of surface parking. If the rumors about car dealerships and fast food restraunts play out, it leads me to believe SRL is about buyers who will bring their one-size fits all type buildings and parking.

Worse case, this project is still good for Idaho Falls, because it improves the entrance to our city and will bring $$$$$$ off of I-15 into our city where it belongs. Best case, BV proves I am and pulls that lake area off without a hitch.

I recommend to you that you check out the website for CLC Associates clcassoc.com who have teamed up with BV for the Snake River Landing development. With their track record, I believe this will be equal if not better than Taylor Crossing. Take a look and judge for yourself. Not trying to argue about anything just giving you a different perspective.

[eastidaho]

I believe this will be equal if not better than Taylor Crossing.

[N2I.F.]

Has anyone heard anything new or different about the Hilton Garden Inn? I heard something recently and just wondered if anyone else had as well.

If you have heard something, either send me a PM if you prefer, or post.

Thanks.

[IFguy]

Does anyone know what's up with the Woodbury Corp. property south of Sunnyside on Hitt Road. I drove by the other day and it seems like the signs have fallen over! I wonder when that will be developed? I sure hope that once Sunnyside is FINALLY complete, more growth will take place there and hopefully offset the growth and traffic on 17th Street. Somehow I doubt that though.

I read that Zions Bank only builds branches where they see the most growth and loan potential, so with their location on Hitt/Sunnyside it only leads me to believe there has to be something going on.

So if anyone knows of anything, don't be afraid to share.

[urbane]

Does anyone have photos of what is bieng built in I.F.?

[N2I.F.]

Originally Posted by urbane

Does anyone have photos of what is bieng built in I.F.?

Photos of Taylor's Crossing on the River have been posted in this thread and in a much earlier thread. eastidaho knows the name of that thread and if you look back a few pages, eastidaho gave it to me.

As for Snake River Landing, the answer is no. Ball Ventures has been very guarded about releasing any information or photos (at least that I have access to).

The development at the Sunnyside exit is just starting. I have a link for the Crossroads Regional Shopping center, but those are simply drawings at this point.

I don't believe Steed Construction has released any photos on the buildings they are building.

CAES does have photos which I was unable to post. I can't remember where I saw it, as most links only talk of the mission. It is a 3-4 story building, depending where one is in the building. www.caes.org has basic info. It may be in the upcoming report INL has for the state there will be another picture.
www.inl.gov also has further information as does ISU. But, most show the same picture of dignitories digging the infamous first shovels of dirt.

The Marriott Residence Inn/Condos was displayed in 2006 on another Idaho Falls thread. Great picture. The only problem is there have been changes. Instead of the proposed 13 stories, Marriott is rumored to have nixed that deal, after-the-fact, and supposedly agreed to a 6-7 story hotel with a second building also about 6-7 stories of condos.

There is a lot of speculation right now so we're hoping TC Guy will give us more facts. Some rumors say the 13 story building is still going to be built, but further south on TC property. Some are wondering if this property will be built closer to the propsed convention center, and the upscale Ball Ventures project, southeast of T.C. But, that hasn't been confirmed.

I doubt you want to see the rumored new McDonald's - part of Ball Ventures overall development of Pancheri to Sunnyside along the river. But, if you do, I'm sure I can find Golden Arches somewhere.

And Woodbury Corporation is in the process of updating proposed pictures for their new development at Sunnyside and Hitt.

I guess we could always put a picture of Pearl House on here, as it has a great mission and will contribute a tremendous amount to displaced adolescents in Bonneville County. But, it's only 2 stories tall. It consumes a lot of space for the skate board area, the equistrian center etc., plus the building itself.

I hope that helps.

[sunB6]

Any discussion about the proposed application by the Regional Development Alliance for a part of the Global Nuclear Energy Partnership? GNEP will hold three public comment meetings in Idaho (March 15, 630p, Idaho Falls Red Lion). Many people are afraid of the local impacts of President Bush's Nuclear Initiative, however nearly all are uninformed. Whether one favors or opposes nuclear energy, one cannot come to rationale conclusions without information. Absent public education, the project is destined for one of the other ten applicants. Local ED specialists are saying this promises 3000-5000 jobs.

Any thoughts on GNEP? Including where the other applicants are from? I know SC and WA are two.

[IFguy]

Originally Posted by sunB6

Any discussion about the proposed application by the Regional Development Alliance for a part of the Global Nuclear Energy Partnership? GNEP will hold three public comment meetings in Idaho (March 15, 630p, Idaho Falls Red Lion). Many people are afraid of the local impacts of President Bush's Nuclear Initiative, however nearly all are uninformed. Whether one favors or opposes nuclear energy, one cannot come to rationale conclusions without information. Absent public education, the project is destined for one of the other ten applicants. Local ED specialists are saying this promises 3000-5000 jobs.

Any thoughts on GNEP? Including where the other applicants are from? I know SC and WA are two.

Well, I don't know too much about GNEP as I am uninformed. I do know after a little research that INL and ANL Argonne National Lab. in Atomic City are both up for consideration which boosts East Idaho's chance of getting into this. Then take CAES finally breaking ground on that building, I think that the INL is going to grow fairly quickly.

3-5K jobs, wow, that would be one hell of a boost to an already growing economy.

[N2I.F.]

Originally Posted by sunB6

Any discussion about the proposed application by the Regional Development Alliance for a part of the Global Nuclear Energy Partnership? GNEP will hold three public comment meetings in Idaho (March 15, 630p, Idaho Falls Red Lion). Many people are afraid of the local impacts of President Bush's Nuclear Initiative, however nearly all are uninformed. Whether one favors or opposes nuclear energy, one cannot come to rationale conclusions without information. Absent public education, the project is destined for one of the other ten applicants. Local ED specialists are saying this promises 3000-5000 jobs.

Any thoughts on GNEP? Including where the other applicants are from? I know SC and WA are two.

Thanks for the info, SunB6. I've read a little about it, but must confess I'm by no means and expert. I will see if I can learn more the next few days. How much information do you think the press will be given, and subsequently can relay to the public?

If I remember correctly, there are only 15 nuclear labs in the U.S. (I mean Gov. Research Labs). I'm sure New Mexico wants part of the action, along with a couple of others. I think for me, the easier question is which 5 of the 15 aren't interested. If you find out more, will you please post it?

Thanks

[delts145]

Guys,

Would I be right in guessing that the greater Idaho Falls area is very much tied to the Wasatch Front,maybe even a little more than perhaps Boise? Kind of like St. George/Las Vegas maybe?

[SmilingBob]

Originally Posted by delts145

Guys,

Would I be right in guessing that the greater Idaho Falls area is very much tied to the Wasatch Front,maybe even a little more than perhaps Boise? Kind of like St. George/Las Vegas maybe?

Right'o. I grew up in SE Idaho and we went to SLC about 3-4 times each year. I don't think I've gone to Boise other than traveling through to Washington more than 5 or 6 times.

I.F. and SE Idaho have grown a lot since I was there, but I still think more people are connected to Utah than the Boise metro. Most of this might have to do with the fact that there are more people and businesses in Utah than Boise.

I wonder what the new IM Flash project in Lehi might do regarding more contact with Boise. IM is a seperate company from Micron, but there is a connection.

[Sawtooth]

I grew up near Idaho Falls(it seems like a few of us Boise forumers did) and I think the connection is more religious based and also proximity since the I-15 corridor cuts through SE Idaho. Salt Lake is closer to Idaho Falls than Boise is to I.F.
I have always thought Southeast Idaho has somewhat of a small identity problem and I am always surprised when I visit my childhood home with how this aspect has not changed as fast as I would like it to. When I was growing up, Boise was thought of as liberal and evil because the LDS influence is not as strong as it is in SE Idaho and Utah. Boise was always portrayed as having a lot of anti-Mormons. And Boise has a large lit up Cross on Table Rock that is visible from most of the city. Some of my peers who are LDS and visited Boise found that spooky and strange Friends and family of mine in SE Idaho do not go to Salt Lake as much as they did, for example, 10 years ago because Idaho Falls has really grown up and has a lot more shopping options. People I know who drive West to Boise are impressed with what their own capitol city has to offer and actually like it better than the other capitol to the south, because they don't want to deal with drivers in Utah, and I have been told that Boise just feels more comfortable and friendly and has a vibrant downtown to explore and immense parks to explore.
My parents tell me that a few of the local SE Idaho news stations are covering more Boise news, which they should since they are part of Southern Idaho,(this way they can become more educated about the transportation needs here in Boise and not focusing so much on Utah/LDS news. But there will always be a connection between I.F. and the Wasatch Front mainly because of the dominant religion.
So, these are just some of my thoughts. After all I spent the first 20 years of my life in the greater Idaho Falls area.

Oh yeah, IM Flash is also at the corporate headquarters of Micron in Boise.

[N2I.F.]

Originally Posted by Sawtooth

I grew up near Idaho Falls(it seems like a few of us Boise forumers did) and I think the connection is more religious and proximity since the I-15 corridor cuts through SE Idaho. Salt Lake is closer to Idaho Falls than Boise is to I.F.
I have always thought Southeast Idaho has kind of an identity problem and I get annoyed when I visit my childhood home with how this aspect has not changed as fast as I would like. When I was growing up Boise was thought of as liberal and evil because the LDS influence is not as strong as it is in SE Idaho and Utah. And Boise has a large lit up Cross on Table Rock that is visible from most of the city. My LDS peers who visited Boise found that spooky and strange Friends and family of mine in SE Idaho do not go to Salt Lake as much as they did say 10 years ago because Idaho Falls has really grown up and has a lot more shopping options. And people I know who drive West to Boise are impressed with what their own capitol city has to offer and actually like it better because they don't want to deal with drivers in Utah, and I hear all of the time that Boise just feels ravelmore comfortable and has a vibrant downtown to explore and immense parks to explore.
My parents tell me that a few of the local SE Idaho news stations actually are covering more Boise news, which they should since they are part of Southern Idaho, and not focusing so much on Utah/LDS news.
So, these are just some of my thoughts. After all I spent the first 20 years of my life in the greater Idaho Falls area.

Oh yeah, IM Flash is at the corporate headquarters of Micron in Boise too.

Delts, Smiling Bob is right about the connection of the Wasatch Metro to Idaho Falls. Taylor's Crossing on the River is a prime example: McNeil is building in Idaho Falls, Provo and Hurricane.

Thanks for posting this Sawtooth. I really interesting view about southeastern ID having an "identity problem." That's the first I've heard that. What high school did you attend?

It seems like you want to make the main issue of why people travel to the Salt Lake Metro area vs. Boise, about religion. I respect your view; however I don't agree.

Boise doesn't have an NBA team - and even though a D-League team is in Boise just think how many more people from ID and UT can go to games between the Boise team and the new one in Orem. Let's see, there's Park City, world class skiing in the Cottonwood canyons, a major airport hub - Salt Lake Metro, major research in many areas of study, a booming economy and some really nice new things that all those moving from CA and so many other states are adding to the area. Shopping - no comparison of high end shops in the larger metro area. More to do and lots of other reasons.

Boise has some pluses too, but I'm mainly trying to address your one point trying to link why southeast ID is more closely linked to SLC than Boise. I think western WY is linked much closer to SLC than Cheyenne or Casper. That road to Boise between American Falls and Twin Falls, has been deadly for many. The improvements on I-15 make a much safer journey driving with more lanes. Plus a lot of companies see Idaho Falls as the perfect place to expand, given who shops in Bonneville County (Jackson Hole Residents, Bozeman Residents plus all the interntional visitors visiting the area to see YNP etc. who likely bypasse SLC with their direct flights from Denver or Minneapolis.

Additionally, I was recently shown some confidential information, about the number of people from UT who own second homes in Idaho Falls, Driggs, or in the Island Park area. I was surprised how many are living part-time in UT and part-time in Bonneville, Teton, Madison or Fremont counties.

I agree with something you said, but in a different way than you stated it. I don't believe this factor was as prevelent when we were in high school as now. The fact BYU-I is straight up I-15 from BYU-U, is a large factor. That doesn't mean it's about religion. I'm talking about sharing resources for two universities and how many people travel back and forth for business. It's similar to how St. Mark's Hospital, an HCA Hospital, shares certain sub-specialsts with Eastern Idaho Regional Medical Center, another HCA Hospital, in Idaho Falls. Physicians are working at both facilities offering certain health care not available in Boise, but now available in Idaho Falls.

Additionally, I think a lot of people from UT like to have businesses in Idaho Falls, so they can legimately visit their businesses and then go play in YNP, the Tetons and Jackson Hole for a few days. Actually, I know that is true for at least a dozen businesses off the top of my head. There are probably more. So one of my points is those who live in UT and chose to spend their leisure time, or expand their businesses to Idaho Falls, also influence the volume of I.F. area residents who go to UT instead of Boise. Another example is Tunex expanding to I.F. from it's home base in SL County.

One somewhat recent change I've seen, especially with Taylor's Crossing and the Edwards Theatre initial development, more Boise companies now seem to have either the capital and/or need to expand to Idaho Falls. And we all know Ball Ventures has funded many of the new hotels in Meridian, and in turn, Steed Construction is building more new buildings in I.F. A few law firms have attorneys in Boise and Idaho Falls. It's possible with more growth, the increasing high technology of jobs in the Boise and Idaho Falls markets, that there may be more people who decide to spend time in Boise than Salt Lake for leisure or business.

Delts has already had to post this on a SLC Projects threads to respond the need to some ignorant people (not from either ID or UT) who knew very little about the many religions in UT, or more likely given their responds, their refusal to learn the updated information about SL Metro's demographics. Maybe I can ask Delts to post it here, or find the reference on the thread where that was discussed.

As you know, the 1 Million + population of Salt Lake County isn't even 50% LDS. The Mosques, the extensive Skaggs Catholic educnty.ation system building new schools for the additional 5,000 Catholic children entering the Catholic Education Network in Utah, says quite a lot. Especially, when the new Catholic grade schools are being built now in Riverton, Sandy and in the high growth areas of West Jordan and other south valley cities. Of course, with Juan Diego having such as large campus in Draper, a lot of elementary schools drain into the Jr. High and Juan Diego in the south valley. Of course, Judge Memorial has been educating Catholic children for decade, but it is far for so many kids living in the south valley.

Then there are the Lutheran and other Christian schools. But what really speaks to the changes in UT are comparing how many Mosques, Jewish Synagogues and churches from many diverse religions have a large population in UT.

I do think you are on to one thing, Satooth. Your thought that many people are more comfortable driving in Boise that Salt Lake Metro, I believe is accurate. Ada and Canyon counties are much like driving in Utah County or maybe even parts of Weber/Davis Counties. It is easier to drive in an area with less population around 600,000 residents like Utah County being much more like driving in Ada and Canyons Counties than Salt Lake County. which is like driving in Ada and Canyon Counties. The 1 million + residents in SL County, added with probably 200,000-300,000 comuting from Weber, Davis and Utah Counties - makes Salt Lake far more like the Silicon Valley or L.A. when it comes to the congestion and how much traffic there is.

It's really cool, Sawtooth, that you are acknolwedging the growth in population and goods/services the Idaho Falls area has decreased or eliminated the need for residents to travel to either Boise or SLC. So many more commercial business are available to met locals needs. Much like Boise, Idaho Falls has benefitted from major employers, spin-offs, solid jobs and a more educated population making more money, say compared to Bannock County. I can give you the reference for that, if you want.

I feel badly for you, Sawtooth, given what it sounds like you went through growing up. I'm glad you have found a place that feels comfortable to you now. I'm also glad I didn't go to the same high school, as I certainly never felt or was taught eastern ID felt inferior or felt there was an identity problem ever. Makes me wonder how statements like that start, let alone get encouraged.

Good for you, Sawtooth, for making some painful things in your life positive for you now.

[/B]

[Sawtooth]

Originally Posted by N2I.F.

Delts, Smiling Bob is right about the connection of the Wasatch Metro to Idaho Falls. Taylor's Crossing on the River is a prime example: McNeil is building in Idaho Falls, Provo and Hurricane.

Thanks for posting this Sawtooth. I really interesting view about southeastern ID having an "identity problem." That's the first I've heard that. What high school did you attend?

It seems like you want to make the main issue of why people travel to the Salt Lake Metro area vs. Boise, about religion. I respect your view; however I don't agree.

1. Boise doesn't have an NBA team - and even though a D-League team is in Boise just think how many more people from ID and UT can go to games between the Boise team and the new one in Orem. Let's see, there's Park City, world class skiing in the Cottonwood canyons, a major airport hub - Salt Lake Metro, major research in many areas of study, a booming economy and some really nice new things that all those moving from CA and so many other states are adding to the area. Shopping - no comparison of high end shops in the larger metro area. More to do and lots of other reasons.

2. Boise has some pluses too, but I'm mainly trying to address your one point trying to link why southeast ID is more closely linked to SLC than Boise. I think western WY is linked much closer to SLC than Cheyenne or Casper. That road to Boise between American Falls and Twin Falls, has been deadly for many. The improvements on I-15 make a much safer journey driving with more lanes. Plus a lot of companies see Idaho Falls as the perfect place to expand, given who shops in Bonneville County (Jackson Hole Residents, Bozeman Residents plus all the interntional visitors visiting the area to see YNP etc. who likely bypasse SLC with their direct flights from Denver or Minneapolis.

3. Additionally, I was recently shown some confidential information, about the number of people from UT who own second homes in Idaho Falls, Driggs, or in the Island Park area. I was surprised how many are living part-time in UT and part-time in Bonneville, Teton, Madison or Fremont counties.

4. I agree with something you said, but in a different way than you stated it. I don't believe this factor was as prevelent when we were in high school as now. The fact BYU-I is straight up I-15 from BYU-U, is a large factor. That doesn't mean it's about religion. I'm talking about sharing resources for two universities and how many people travel back and forth for business. It's similar to how St. Mark's Hospital, an HCA Hospital, shares certain sub-specialsts with Eastern Idaho Regional Medical Center, another HCA Hospital, in Idaho Falls. Physicians are working at both facilities offering certain health care not available in Boise, but now available in Idaho Falls.

5. Additionally, I think a lot of people from UT like to have businesses in Idaho Falls, so they can legimately visit their businesses and then go play in YNP, the Tetons and Jackson Hole for a few days. Actually, I know that is true for at least a dozen businesses off the top of my head. There are probably more. So one of my points is those who live in UT and chose to spend their leisure time, or expand their businesses to Idaho Falls, also influence the volume of I.F. area residents who go to UT instead of Boise. Another example is Tunex expanding to I.F. from it's home base in SL County.

One somewhat recent change I've seen, especially with Taylor's Crossing and the Edwards Theatre initial development, more Boise companies now seem to have either the capital and/or need to expand to Idaho Falls. And we all know Ball Ventures has funded many of the new hotels in Meridian, and in turn, Steed Construction is building more new buildings in I.F. A few law firms have attorneys in Boise and Idaho Falls. It's possible with more growth, the increasing high technology of jobs in the Boise and Idaho Falls markets, that there may be more people who decide to spend time in Boise than Salt Lake for leisure or business.

6. Delts has already had to post this on a SLC Projects threads to respond the need to some ignorant people (not from either ID or UT) who knew very little about the many religions in UT, or more likely given their responds, their refusal to learn the updated information about SL Metro's demographics. Maybe I can ask Delts to post it here, or find the reference on the thread where that was discussed.

As you know, the 1 Million + population of Salt Lake County isn't even 50% LDS. The Mosques, the extensive Skaggs Catholic educnty.ation system building new schools for the additional 5,000 Catholic children entering the Catholic Education Network in Utah, says quite a lot. Especially, when the new Catholic grade schools are being built now in Riverton, Sandy and in the high growth areas of West Jordan and other south valley cities. Of course, with Juan Diego having such as large campus in Draper, a lot of elementary schools drain into the Jr. High and Juan Diego in the south valley. Of course, Judge Memorial has been educating Catholic children for decade, but it is far for so many kids living in the south valley.

Then there are the Lutheran and other Christian schools. But what really speaks to the changes in UT are comparing how many Mosques, Jewish Synagogues and churches from many diverse religions have a large population in UT.

7. I do think you are on to one thing, Satooth. Your thought that many people are more comfortable driving in Boise that Salt Lake Metro, I believe is accurate. Ada and Canyon counties are much like driving in Utah County or maybe even parts of Weber/Davis Counties. It is easier to drive in an area with less population around 600,000 residents like Utah County being much more like driving in Ada and Canyons Counties than Salt Lake County. which is like driving in Ada and Canyon Counties. The 1 million + residents in SL County, added with probably 200,000-300,000 comuting from Weber, Davis and Utah Counties - makes Salt Lake far more like the Silicon Valley or L.A. when it comes to the congestion and how much traffic there is.

8. It's really cool, Sawtooth, that you are acknolwedging the growth in population and goods/services the Idaho Falls area has decreased or eliminated the need for residents to travel to either Boise or SLC. So many more commercial business are available to met locals needs. Much like Boise, Idaho Falls has benefitted from major employers, spin-offs, solid jobs and a more educated population making more money, say compared to Bannock County. I can give you the reference for that, if you want.

9. I feel badly for you, Sawtooth, given what it sounds like you went through growing up. I'm glad you have found a place that feels comfortable to you now. I'm also glad I didn't go to the same high school, as I certainly never felt or was taught eastern ID felt inferior or felt there was an identity problem ever. Makes me wonder how statements like that start, let alone get encouraged.
Good for you, Sawtooth, for making some painful things in your life positive for you now.

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First of all, why are you so defensive? Why are you attacking me when I was responding back to a question that had been asked? I was just responding back to a legitimate question with my humble opinion. Of course you side with the other forumers you mentioned at the beginning of your post because they live in Utah and they say what you want to here. I think that you don't really care for Boise.
When have you lived in Idaho Falls? I grew up in that area and have roots there and am proud to say I am from there. I was expressing my opinions and I have every right to. And I grew up LDS and stand by what I said about the religious connection in my prior post.
I numbered my responses with your remarks.

1.And yes, religion does connect the two areas in a large way as does the proximity. You mentioned an NBA team. Who cares? Sports are not everything and besides Boise is not lacking when it comes to sporting teams.
The shopping is a personal opinion; in my opinion Boise has just as much to offer as far as shopping as the Wasatch area. You have stores we don't have, we have stores you don't have. Boise is full of high end boutique stores downtown and has a completely different atmosphere than downtown Salt Lake. I don't mean this in a rude way because each city has it's own "feel or vibe". The retail market in the Boise Metro Area is expanding at one of the fastest rates in the county. And just because you live in a larger metro area does not mean "there is more to do".
I can find just as "much to do" in the Boise metro as your metro.
Idaho Falls will always have a connection to Utah because of geographical location. I was just expressing another point of view I have.

2. You mention Park City. Boise has a ski resort straight up the mountain above downtown. Bogus Basin is one of the closest ski areas to a major airport and urban downtown in this country. It may not be swanky but it is a great mountain for quick access to quick skiing with awesome views and has one of the largest night skiing areas in the nation. And during ski season Boise is a ski resort city in it's own right. A person can ski at Bogus, and then golf (weather permitting- which is most of the year in Boise) or fish for trout or sockeye in the Boise River right in downtown or visit the many art galleries downtown. Downtown is like an extra, extra large and more diverse downtown Ketchum or Park City when Bogus Basin is open during ski season. The rest of the year when the weather is warmer downtown is even more alive and full of sidewalk dining and events.
But the resorts we have within a 2 hour drive and the scenery along the way and their locations (Sun Valley, McCall, Tamarack, Brundage) are extremely beautiful areas that many people from outside of Idaho the rest of the United States and plenty of foreign tourists visit. Boise is the gateway to some pretty expansive wilderness areas and mountain biking, hiking, whitewater, and are all within easy access to our very nice, very busy, and growing airport. Boise has the mountains, forests, deserts, and canyons nearby and also has a booming economy. Boise and the metro area are one of the fastest growing areas in the country and you definately see that living here.



3. Utahn's are moving to the Treasure Valley and it is evident from the number of vehicles with Utah plates on the roads And the comments I hear at Albertson's or the Boise Co-op--"they have wine at grocery stores?!" "I don't have to go to the liqour store?!"



4. Boise has two of the most advanced hospitals in the Northwest/Mountain West. Saint Alphonsus, Boise's Catholic Hospital, is the most advanced hospital in Idaho hands down. Saint Lukes in downtown has the only Children's hospital in the state and is also home to the Mountian West Tumor Institute.


5. Go visit Sun Valley or McCall or Redfish Lake in the Sawtooth Mountains or any scenic highway leading north out of Boise. You will see plenty of Utah vehicles.

A lot of Boise companies have invested in the Wood River Valley, McCall/Tamarack areas, Coeur d'Alene and out of state. Finally they are investing more in Idaho Falls and Eastern Idaho.



6. N.2.I.F., I can guarantee you that there is a impressive religious diversity in the Boise Metro population. For example in the downtown and immediate neighborhood areas there are many religions. Roman Catholic, Buddhist, Muslim, Korean Baptist, Methodist, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Baha'I, Eckankar, Friends, Christian Science, LDS, and more than I wish to list, and Boise has the oldest in use Jewish Synagogue west of the Mississippi. Boise also has the largest Basque population outside of their homeland. Boise has a large Catholic High School as well.


7. Don't even go there with the driving habits.
When I mention driving habits, It has nothing to do with population but has everything to do with driving skills and courtesy.


8. I am quite aware of Idaho Fall's and the rest of S.E. Idaho's growth. Remember I live in Idaho. Idaho Falls has one of the best historic downtowns in the state and is waiting to be re discovered, much like downtown Nampa.


9. I think your remarks are rude and childish. This is a quote from your post:
"I feel badly for you, Sawtooth, given what it sounds like you went through growing up". N.2.I.F. you are very out of line and a very demeaning person. You do not have a clue what my life was like growing up and all you have accomplished is confirming judgemental attitudes of a certain geographical populace. I was not taught anything in high school about labeling SE Idaho as you state. I grew up there (did u?) and have rights to my own perceptions.
I did not want to stoop to your level by comparing, as you did, but I responded back more as to educate you on what the Boise area has after you practically made it sound as if Boise barely exists. I am a native of Idaho, have left the state for the east and west coasts and returned back to this inspiring and incredibly beautiful state to settle in Boise. That doesn't mean I dislike Idaho Falls. Idaho Falls is a city with a lot of dignity and the people who live there and around it are very proud of their city. The natural surroundings are impressive. You are making personal attacks towards me to be-little me and you have no right. You do not own this thread Talk about oppresion.
But, this thread is not about Salt Lake or Boise but about Idaho Falls development. So I would appreciate it that you do not reply back to me regarding this situation in this forum.
I have defended and explained myself so please do not continue this any further.

This thread is for Idaho Falls developments, and all I did was answer a question and offer my opinion which was asked about a perception of Idaho Falls.