AUSTIN | Fairmont Hotel | 595 FEET SPIRE/456 FT ROOF | 37 FLRS | Complete

[The ATX]

I really don't care about the politics of California because I don't live there. I remember when Prop 8 was national news, but I didn't even know that it passed until I recently googled it because it became a topic in this thread. I can easily understand and empathize with gay people who are so passionate about it. But my only concern is here is economic development and architecture.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by Hill Country

I really don't care about the politics of California because I don't live there. I remember when Prop 8 was national news, but I didn't even know that it passed until I recently googled it because it became a topic in this thread. I can easily understand and empathize with gay people who are so passionate about it. But my only concern is here is economic development and architecture.

Referred to Martin Luther King's Letter from Birmingham Jail.

[migol24]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Referred to Martin Luther King's Letter from Birmingham Jail.

did you mean to quote cvalkan? it would seem to make more sense after having read the letter and cvalkan's post.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by migol24

did you mean to quote cvalkan? it would seem to make more sense after having read the letter and cvalkan's post.

Nope. I meant to quote Hill Country.

Originally Posted by Hill Country

I really don't care about the politics of California because I don't live there. I remember when Prop 8 was national news, but I didn't even know that it passed until I recently googled it because it became a topic in this thread. I can easily understand and empathize with gay people who are so passionate about it. But my only concern is here is economic development and architecture.

To which these quotes most apply:

Letter from Birmingham Jail:

Originally Posted by Martin Luther King

We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people.

Strength in Love:

Originally Posted by Martin Luther King,

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Nope. I meant to quote Hill Country.




To which these quotes most apply:

Letter from Birmingham Jail:


Strength in Love:

thank you. Praise hands. We all need someone to speak up for us some days.



Noted in Chronicle that said mogul apologized for his donations and offered perks to GLBT orgs. Well, at least he is smart enough to realize his actions were not good business. "Love the sinner , hate the sin"? Still irritates me, but at least maybe he would not use money gained here to oppress "a" driving force of this population. ( at least publicly ) Mixed feelings remain, with hope for resolution.

I am still very happy this has come to light and an issue has been made of it. I am also happy the Lorenz, who has been a friend of the gay community realized the need to find resolution and this was an issue for him as well.


I'll get back to fighting about the building: Still think it;s a "new modern generic". But, my, it's so big.

[JAM]

Mogul can't have an impact on same sex marriage in Texas so it really doesn't matter what he thinks. On the other hand, the piece of property that he wants to build on needs improvement and a lot of Austinites want to see it go up. Austinites also want the economic benefit that it will bring to the community. The gay community could be doing themselves a dis-service by fighting this project. Who knows.... people who are on the fence of gay marriage might decide to go towards the side of Mogul should they get this project taken away from them. Mogul is just one guy and can't even vote in Texas let alone Austin, who cares what his beliefs are. Isn't he entitled to his beliefs just as much as anyone?

[Spaceman]

I agree....The hotel industry has always been friendly to people with diverse beliefs and lifestyles...

[The ATX]

It wouldn't be a very good business model for someone to be in the lodging business and not be as welcoming to as many people as possible.

[cvalkan]

Even though I wasn't the one being replied to, I want to emphasize that I wasn't suggesting being quiet or indifferent in the face of wrong. Fight it, but given limited resources, one has to make tactical decisions about how most effectively to do so. I could be wrong about how to do that in this case.

[BevoLJ]

I am glad that the guy mentioned in the Chronicle article kinda cleared up some of that. It also said this was going to be trying to get LEED Gold cert.

That this one will be going for LEED Gold and that it will be providing 1k rooms to help pay for the Waller Creek I really want it to be built.

How does that extra tax work? The one for the creek project? Does all those rooms help pay for it or is it by the property tax?

[Myomi]

Originally Posted by BevoLJ

I am glad that the guy mentioned in the Chronicle article kinda cleared up some of that. It also said this was going to be trying to get LEED Gold cert.

That this one will be going for LEED Gold and that it will be providing 1k rooms to help pay for the Waller Creek I really want it to be built.

How does that extra tax work? The one for the creek project? Does all those rooms help pay for it or is it by the property tax?

This was discussed in the Waller Creek discussion: 100 percent of the Austin property tax and 50% of the Travis County property tax will go towards Waller Creek according to the TIF district structure. Essentially, that is 0.69 percent of total value of the property going to pay for the Waller Creek project. If the estimates of a $350 million dollar hotel are true, that would be about $2.4 million a year for paying off the project. Not too shabby...

As for the hotel occupancy tax, I am not sure exactly how that would work. Of the total 15 percent tax rate on hotel rooms, 6 percent goes to the state and probably wouldn't be used to fund the project. The 9 percent Austin part might be used for the project, but the TIF doesn't require it. At least that is my understanding of the issue.

[LoneStarMike]

Originally Posted by Myomi

As for the hotel occupancy tax, I am not sure exactly how that would work. Of the total 15 percent tax rate on hotel rooms, 6 percent goes to the state and probably wouldn't be used to fund the project. The 9 percent Austin part might be used for the project, but the TIF doesn't require it. At least that is my understanding of the issue.

It's my understanding that of the 9% that goes to to the city, 4.5% goes to the Convention Center Fund; 2% to the Venue Project Fund; 1.45% for Tourism & Promotion; and 1.05% for Cultural Arts. It's part of the Venue Project Fund that helps pay for the Waller Creek Project, I think.

See the Austin City Code about Hotel Occupancy Taxes:

http://www.artsnet.org/arttax/sample.../austinLDG.pdf

§ 11-2-15 USE OF REVENUE.
(A) The funds deposited in the Venue Project Fund may only be used for
the following purposes:
(1) to reimburse or pay the costs of planning, acquiring, establishing,
developing, constructing, or renovating the Convention Center/Waller Creek
Project;
(2) to pay the principal, interest, reserves, and other cost relating to
bonds or other obligations issued by the City for the Convention Center/Waller
Creek Project, or bonds issued to refund the obligations; or
(3) to pay the costs of operating or maintaining the project.

Somewhere in one of the city budgets, it also mentioned that hotel occupancy taxes make up 60% of the Convention Center's revenue.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by cvalkan

Even though I wasn't the one being replied to, I want to emphasize that I wasn't suggesting being quiet or indifferent in the face of wrong. Fight it, but given limited resources, one has to make tactical decisions about how most effectively to do so. I could be wrong about how to do that in this case.

Originally Posted by JAM

Mogul can't have an impact on same sex marriage in Texas so it really doesn't matter what he thinks. On the other hand, the piece of property that he wants to build on needs improvement and a lot of Austinites want to see it go up. Austinites also want the economic benefit that it will bring to the community. The gay community could be doing themselves a dis-service by fighting this project. Who knows.... people who are on the fence of gay marriage might decide to go towards the side of Mogul should they get this project taken away from them. Mogul is just one guy and can't even vote in Texas let alone Austin, who cares what his beliefs are. Isn't he entitled to his beliefs just as much as anyone?

I do, after all, want the hotel built:

I generally agree with you on the substance (as a young gay man myself), but I still think it should be built. Daddy has enough money already to spend making sure that Prop 8 clones get passed everywhere, and this isn't going to change that. As it is anyway, demographic changes are moving the politics of this in our favor so quickly as to render his opposition practically pointless. Also, your life in Texas can't get any worse as Texas already has a constitutional amendment banning both gay marriage and any institution remotely resembling gay marriage. Anyway, apart from marriage the guy seems to be fine with gays afaik.

[BevoLJ]

I really wonder how tall this hotel will be. Wiki has a page for "Tallest Hotels in the World" and this could easily be in the top 20. There is even one hotel in the top 10 that is only 52 stories. It will easily be in the top 10 in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_in_the_world

Rank	Building			City		Height		Floors	
1=	Emirates Park Tower 1[A]	Dubai		 1,296 ft	77
1=	Emirates Park Tower 2[A]	Dubai		 1,296 ft	77
3	Rose Rayhaan by Rotana		Dubai		 1,092 ft	72
4	Burj Al Arab			Dubai		 1,060 ft	60
5	Jumeirah Emirates Towers Hotel	Dubai		 1,014 ft	56
6	The Address Downtown		Dubai		 1,004 ft	63
7	Baiyoke Tower II		Bangkok		 997 ft		85
8	The Cullinan South Tower	Hong Kong	886 ft		68
9	Grand Lisboa			Macau		 846 ft		52
10	Lanko·Grand Hyatt Hotel		Chongqing	846 ft		63
11	State Tower			Bangkok		 810 ft		63
12	Centara Grand Hotel		Bangkok		 771 ft		57
13	Oasis Skyway Garden Hotel	Shanghai	741 ft		52
14	JR Central Hotel Tower		Nagoya		741 ft		53
15	Swissôtel The Stamford		Singapore	741 ft		73
16	Renaissance Center		Detroit		 727 ft		73
17	Westin Peachtree Plaza Hotel	Atlanta		 723 ft		73	
18	Ritz-Carlton Jakarta Tower I	Jakarta		 696 ft		48
19	Ritz-Carlton Jakarta Tower II	Jakarta		 696 ft		48
20	Four Seasons	 New York	New York City	682 ft		52
21	Sofitel Jin Jiang		Shanghai	679 ft		47
22	Four Seasons Hotel		Hong Kong	673 ft		55
23	Tower A Berjaya Times Square	Kuala Lumpur	666 ft		48
24	Renaissance Hotel Tianjin	Tianjin		 666 ft		48
25	Yuanyang Building		Dalian		 659 ft		83
26	Royal Mediterranean Hotel	Guangzhou	 659 ft		48
27	Radisson Hotel New World	Shanghai	656 ft		46	
28	Dolton Hotel Changsha		Changsha	656 ft		51
29	Shangri-La Hotel (Dubai)	Dubai		 656 ft		43
30	Hotel Ukraina			Moscow		 650 ft		34

[The ATX]

Depending on the height of the spire, it could be the 4th tallest in the U.S.

[migol24]

i personally don't think its gonna be any bigger than 800'. but who knows?

[The ATX]

Originally Posted by migol24

i personally don't think its gonna be any bigger than 800'. but who knows?

Based on the redering 650' seems possible.

[hookem]

Dang, Austin could have both the tallest residential building and the tallest hotel in Texas. Who would have ever predicted that?

[The ATX]

Originally Posted by hookem

Dang, Austin could have both the tallest residential building and the tallest hotel in Texas. Who would have ever predicted that?

It would also be true for East of the Mississippi.

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by BevoLJ

I really wonder how tall this hotel will be. Wiki has a page for "Tallest Hotels in the World" and this could easily be in the top 20. There is even one hotel in the top 10 that is only 52 stories. It will easily be in the top 10 in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_in_the_world

Rank	Building			City		Height		Floors	
1=	Emirates Park Tower 1[A]	Dubai		 1,296 ft	77
1=	Emirates Park Tower 2[A]	Dubai		 1,296 ft	77
3	Rose Rayhaan by Rotana		Dubai		 1,092 ft	72
4	Burj Al Arab			Dubai		 1,060 ft	60
5	Jumeirah Emirates Towers Hotel	Dubai		 1,014 ft	56
6	The Address Downtown		Dubai		 1,004 ft	63
7	Baiyoke Tower II		Bangkok		 997 ft		85
8	The Cullinan South Tower	Hong Kong	886 ft		68
9	Grand Lisboa			Macau		 846 ft		52
10	Lanko·Grand Hyatt Hotel		Chongqing	846 ft		63
11	State Tower			Bangkok		 810 ft		63
12	Centara Grand Hotel		Bangkok		 771 ft		57
13	Oasis Skyway Garden Hotel	Shanghai	741 ft		52
14	JR Central Hotel Tower		Nagoya		741 ft		53
15	Swissôtel The Stamford		Singapore	741 ft		73
16	Renaissance Center		Detroit		 727 ft		73
17	Westin Peachtree Plaza Hotel	Atlanta		 723 ft		73	
18	Ritz-Carlton Jakarta Tower I	Jakarta		 696 ft		48
19	Ritz-Carlton Jakarta Tower II	Jakarta		 696 ft		48
20	Four Seasons	 New York	New York City	682 ft		52
21	Sofitel Jin Jiang		Shanghai	679 ft		47
22	Four Seasons Hotel		Hong Kong	673 ft		55
23	Tower A Berjaya Times Square	Kuala Lumpur	666 ft		48
24	Renaissance Hotel Tianjin	Tianjin		 666 ft		48
25	Yuanyang Building		Dalian		 659 ft		83
26	Royal Mediterranean Hotel	Guangzhou	 659 ft		48
27	Radisson Hotel New World	Shanghai	656 ft		46	
28	Dolton Hotel Changsha		Changsha	656 ft		51
29	Shangri-La Hotel (Dubai)	Dubai		 656 ft		43
30	Hotel Ukraina			Moscow		 650 ft		34

Hold on, gentlemen. Several of these buildings are mixed-use towers. Is there a listing of single-use (hotel) towers?