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  #3301  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2016, 2:37 PM
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Originally Posted by CIA View Post
You can't take photos, but the new PATH station is already leaking. They have buckets all over the platform catching the drops. Ridiculous!
Impressive performance by the MTA and the hacks who built this.
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  #3302  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2016, 3:48 PM
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Santiago Calatrava: The Frank Lloyd Wright of our era.

Read that how you may.
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  #3303  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2016, 12:23 AM
generalscarr generalscarr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Impressive performance by the MTA and the hacks who built this.
Oh stop this BS, one of the most complex developments in the world and you`re calling thousands of incredibly hard working men and women `hacks` because of some freaking leaks...
Genius
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  #3304  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2016, 12:49 AM
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Nexis4Jersey Nexis4Jersey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIA View Post
You can't take photos, but the new PATH station is already leaking. They have buckets all over the platform catching the drops. Ridiculous!
The Photography ban is unconstitutional...the station is a public space run by a Govt agency...

Taken Yesterday - 2.22.16

WTC Hub


A early evening walk from Midtown to Downtown Manhattan
by Corey Best, on Flickr


PATH WTC Hub
by Corey Best, on Flickr


PATH WTC Hub
by Corey Best, on Flickr


PATH rush hr crowds
by Corey Best, on Flickr


NWK PATH departing WTC
by Corey Best, on Flickr
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  #3305  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2016, 3:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Impressive performance by the MTA and the hacks who built this.
Um...

MTA has nothing to do with this. It's a Port Authority project.

The Port Authority makes the MTA look like German engineers with the efficiency with the Swiss.
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  #3306  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2016, 5:51 AM
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Nexis4Jersey Nexis4Jersey is offline
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  #3307  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2016, 2:51 PM
TonyNYC TonyNYC is offline
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Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Impressive performance by the MTA and the hacks who built this.


This isn't on the MTA, although they also are incompetent. This is totally on the Port Authority, who went out and spend $4 billion dollars, $2 billion over budget, on a train station that still hasn't opened.

What a complete waste of money!
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  #3308  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2016, 3:00 PM
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I love it. But damn, to think of all the other ways they could have improved our transit system with $4 billion...
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  #3309  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2016, 10:26 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by TonyNYC View Post
This isn't on the MTA, although they also are incompetent. This is totally on the Port Authority, who went out and spend $4 billion dollars, $2 billion over budget, on a train station that still hasn't opened.

What a complete waste of money!
It was more like $2 billion. The final cost was $3.6 billion, but that includes about $1.6 billion worth of WTC-related infrastructure that has nothing specifically to do with the Calatrava terminal. And, to me, it was worth it. Worth every penny. I would MUCH rather have my tax dollars go to massive infrastructure investments like this than to the typical nonsense.

Heck, for Moynihan Station, they can spend $20 billion, for all I care. If they fix the issues around Penn/Moynihan then it's money well spent.
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  #3310  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2016, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by tjp View Post
I love it. But damn, to think of all the other ways they could have improved our transit system with $4 billion...
Honestly, in NYC, the money wouldn't go very far. You could build maybe a mile of subway.

The Fulton Center (a renovated subway station) cost well over a billion. The new Port Authority Bus Terminal is being budgeted for $10 billion (!!). The Moynhian Station project is at $10 billion. The new Amtrak terminal/Hudson River tunnel is budgeted for something like $20 billion+.
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  #3311  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2016, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
It was more like $2 billion. The final cost was $3.6 billion, but that includes about $1.6 billion worth of WTC-related infrastructure that has nothing specifically to do with the Calatrava terminal. And, to me, it was worth it. Worth every penny. I would MUCH rather have my tax dollars go to massive infrastructure investments like this than to the typical nonsense.

Heck, for Moynihan Station, they can spend $20 billion, for all I care. If they fix the issues around Penn/Moynihan then it's money well spent.

I agree. Money well spent. It's gorgeous and worth every penny as far as I'm concerned.
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  #3312  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2016, 5:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by generalscarr View Post
Oh stop this BS, one of the most complex developments in the world and you`re calling thousands of incredibly hard working men and women `hacks` because of some freaking leaks...
Genius
Different salad of letters, same institutional incompetence.
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  #3313  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2016, 5:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Heck, for Moynihan Station, they can spend $20 billion, for all I care. If they fix the issues around Penn/Moynihan then it's money well spent.
Except the city and state don't have a spare $20 billion lying around.

And the money isn't well spent if it's frivolously spent.
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  #3314  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2016, 5:19 AM
tjp tjp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Honestly, in NYC, the money wouldn't go very far. You could build maybe a mile of subway.

The Fulton Center (a renovated subway station) cost well over a billion. The new Port Authority Bus Terminal is being budgeted for $10 billion (!!). The Moynhian Station project is at $10 billion. The new Amtrak terminal/Hudson River tunnel is budgeted for something like $20 billion+.
Not trying to veer off topic, but why is that? Does the money go further in other world cities in developed countries, like London or Tokyo?
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  #3315  
Old Posted Feb 25, 2016, 9:49 PM
BrownTown BrownTown is offline
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Originally Posted by tjp View Post
Not trying to veer off topic, but why is that? Does the money go further in other world cities in developed countries, like London or Tokyo?
Combination of politics/NIMBYISM, powerful unions and the difficult conditions. On average other World cities are about 1/5th the cost.
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  #3316  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2016, 1:18 AM
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Next Week I will do a complete station photography overview... Even though the Port Authority might still try to infringe on my right to photograph their PATH system... I will still try to cover the entire station... Platforms , Trains , Exits , The Great Hall , Entrances , side areas....everything....

Last edited by Nexis4Jersey; Feb 26, 2016 at 1:38 AM.
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  #3317  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2016, 1:50 AM
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People use to blame Unions for the exorbitant cost of infrastructure in the US. That could be true if compared with China, Latin American or middle eastern countries, but not for comparing with other first world countries. In no way workers in London are less expensive thatn in the US and France's Unions are no less powerful than in the US.

Also I don't think Nimbys have play an important part in this particular project located just in the hearth of Lower Manhattan. Nimbys tend to act more in residential areas and I don't think american nimbys are less demanding than europeans anyway.

For what I've read, it has more to do with an intrincated web of consultants over consultants and many specifications than many times are not really needed. Also maybe the degree of corruption is also higher in the US than in Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Next Week I will do a complete station photography overview... Even though the Port Authority might still try to infringe on my right to photograph their PATH system... I will still try to cover the entire station... Platforms , Trains , Exits , The Great Hall , Entrances , side areas....everything.... Maybe even the under construction 1 train station?
Once this is open, there will be hundreds of people, including hordes of tourists, taking pictures there, so, even if they like it or not, they won't have more choice than just let the people taking pictures.

In the meanwhile, some pictures via curbedNY (more in the article)

http://ny.curbed.com/2016/2/25/11111...ion-hub-photos




















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  #3318  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2016, 3:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownTown View Post
Combination of politics/NIMBYISM, powerful unions and the difficult conditions. On average other World cities are about 1/5th the cost.
do you have data on this? I'd love to see...most curious about London and Tokyo...not interested in places with lax labor laws
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  #3319  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2016, 3:54 AM
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^ Not really an easy answer for this. Mediterranean countries are far more corrupt than the US, generally, and they still manage to deliver urban rail projects at a fraction of the cost.

A lot of the problem comes from design, I think... there's only a handful of engineering firms in the US and they generally see rail projects as a cash cow and massively overdesign. Chicago recently landed funding for a major transit project where design fees alone amounted to $125 million. I mean, seriously? A typical drawing set for a US transit project, even something like a new elevated station, runs into the hundreds of pages. A skyscaper has a smaller drawing set and fewer details...

Part of it involves designing less and giving the contractor more latitude to "fill in the blanks" as they build rather than prescribing every little thing. The contractor at least has the incentive to deliver the project to a certain specified budget, and the added flexibility can't hurt.
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  #3320  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2016, 6:25 AM
antinimby antinimby is offline
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This thing is gorgeous. I can't stop looking at those pictures.
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