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  #41  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 1:21 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
My point of view couldn't be more opposite to yours, hauntedheadnc, regarding the location where a given story is set. I'm very picky when it comes to books (and stories in general; movies, shows too) and what matters to me is how good the story is, not where it's set. Good stories normally aren't setting-dependent anyway.
On the contrary, the best stories could not be told anywhere but where they are being told. There are cultural nuances, demographics, geography, and all manner of other factors that really help to define a place and the stories that can take place in it. One of the best Ian Rankin novels, for example, begins with someone considering the wealth of Edinburgh ghost stories before leaping off the ramparts of Edinburgh Castle to their death. That's just not a story that could be told in London. Likewise, any murder mystery set in Detroit is going to have to grapple with racial tension, blight, and the fact that it's tough to solve a murder using cutting-edge forensics when the city can't even afford to keep the police station open.
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  #42  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 1:23 AM
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Sure enough:


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Wanna bet? If it's slow enough for them to catch, my cats will eat anything. We had high hopes for one of them, in fact, when on just his second day with us, he ate a spider. We were hoping for free pest control, but sadly it appears now he'd just rather play with them than eat them.
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  #43  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 1:51 AM
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  #44  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 2:20 AM
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Originally Posted by skunkachunks View Post
You say that San Francisco at least produces something that is useful (iPhones) while NYC only produces debt. Jumping off that argument, I just want to point out that companies like Apple cannot finance the new projects and expansions that you find useful without financing from the people sitting in the financial districts of San Francisco and Manhattan. Especially considering that Apple is publicly traded, a significant portion of its value comes from the people that allow the NYSE to function and the financiers that even coordinated the IPO in the first place.
That's precisely the problem! Nothing can be created with a system in place (NY ok there are some rich people in SF) but in SF the capital is local to the creativity in place. In New York there is much control on operations far-flung from the center of Money. So you can laugh that you are being controlled by a select few if it helps you accept this fact, but it makes a lot of other people just mad. Nothing fun about mind control. When you understand that you are right to recognize this is unjust.

So I mean I propose a strike against the corporation of New York. Or a new banking system altogether.
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  #45  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 3:26 AM
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  #46  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 3:53 AM
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Just found out this thread exists. Boy ain't this OP ignorant.
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  #47  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 3:54 AM
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Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc View Post
One of the best Ian Rankin novels, for example, begins with someone considering the wealth of Edinburgh ghost stories before leaping off the ramparts of Edinburgh Castle to their death.
The plot (unless I'm wrong... haven't read that novel) could likely be basically the same somewhere else... Edinburgh as the setting, or not, is likely not a deal-breaker.

Sure, it's nice that it's set there, and certainly a better story to an extent than in a less appropriate location, but the main plot line -- which IMO is what makes a story good; the details, etc. are more like toppings, they will make a good story better, but won't turn a bad one into a good one -- could likely be very similar; the plot likely does not demand Edinburgh.


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Likewise, any murder mystery set in Detroit is going to have to grapple with racial tension, blight, and the fact that it's tough to solve a murder using cutting-edge forensics when the city can't even afford to keep the police station open.
Could be set in many other American cities.

Or, with minor alterations, the same plot line could be set in Mexico City, Johannesburg, etc.

If the writer's good, and the story's good, then it will be basically just as good if you swap Detroit for the worst areas of Cleveland or St. Louis with the exact same intrigue... and it will still be a very enjoyable high-quality story.
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  #48  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 4:03 AM
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...people who live nowhere should be grateful exist to counter the global perception that Americans are a tubby bunch with Olive Garden appetites.
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  #49  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 5:02 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
The plot (unless I'm wrong... haven't read that novel) could likely be basically the same somewhere else... Edinburgh as the setting, or not, is likely not a deal-breaker.

Sure, it's nice that it's set there, and certainly a better story to an extent than in a less appropriate location, but the main plot line -- which IMO is what makes a story good; the details, etc. are more like toppings, they will make a good story better, but won't turn a bad one into a good one -- could likely be very similar; the plot likely does not demand Edinburgh.
Actually, pretty much all of Rankin's novels demand their setting, which is what makes them so irresistible. They would not have the atmosphere, nor the ties to history and sheer... place if they were set elsewhere. Good stories are inextricably woven into the places they're told. Generic stories are the only stories that can move from place to place.

Quote:
Could be set in many other American cities.

Or, with minor alterations, the same plot line could be set in Mexico City, Johannesburg, etc.

If the writer's good, and the story's good, then it will be basically just as good if you swap Detroit for the worst areas of Cleveland or St. Louis with the exact same intrigue... and it will still be a very enjoyable high-quality story.
Ah, but a story that requires that Detroit quality of Detroit might indeed work in Cleveland or St. Louis, or Buffalo... But it wouldn't work in someplace flush with cash like San Francisco or Seattle. Again, the best stories are the stories that can't be told anywhere but where they are. There are ways people behave, ways people think, things people do, even certain kinds of weather they have to watch out for, that just can't be transplanted wholesale to another location.

Let me give you an example. Let's say you off someone, take them to a school book warehouse and dump them in a pit that has opened up in the floor, such that only their feet are sticking up from a pool of hard-frozen water, amid thousands of scattered, rotting, frozen textbooks. That scene takes on so many more layers of meaning in Detroit -- as a metaphor for American failings, social failings, and what have you, than it would elsewhere -- where you probably wouldn't even have that kind of setting to use anyway. Likewise, the Katrina ruins of New Orleans lend themselves to settings that you just will not find on Long Island (although you could potentially come close nearby in Asbury Park, NJ). Likewise, it's harder to lose yourself in a smaller city, so someone looking to hide what they've done in a smaller place has a harder, meaner time of it than they would in a big city. It adds to the intrigue.

My point is that New York stories are great, but I prefer stories told elsewhere that make best use of those other places. I have plenty of novels, and watch plenty of shows, set in New York, but the stories I crave take place somewhere else and could not take place in New York even if you tried to force it.
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  #50  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 5:25 AM
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As a Boston sports fan of all stripes, it's safe to say my life would not be complete without New York and its teams to project against, and to provide the collective victim-hood / schadenfreude that defines the New England pro sports fandom.
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  #51  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 12:11 PM
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Moving to NYC soon, so I guess I like it.
How many times have you moved between DC and NY/NJ?
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  #52  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 2:36 PM
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But in all seriousness, NYC gives as much back as it takes from the rest of the country. The US is an economic power because of many companies that have originated and/or are based in NYC. This city is our greatest metropolis, our answer to London, Paris, Tokyo, and all the world's great and powerful cities.

And the funny thing about this thread is the fact that the OP thinks NYC only equals Manhattan, which is the belief of many who only know the city from the media. Manhattan is extremely important and is where the city grew out from, but there are four other boroughs, two with twice the population, that have various cultural diversity, significance, etc. NYC is not only global but a microcosm of the world in itself. It really represents the "melting pot" or "mosaic" description that many Americans hold dear. It is also very local compared to most other global cities, but maybe that's just me.

It isn't without its faults, but I can say arguably as a born New Yorker that this one of the greatest cities that has ever existed. Every city that I've been to in this country pales in comparison, especially the Southern cities. Only a few cities have or will probably have the potential to be like just one of the outer boroughs and those are many of the Northeast cities, Miami, Houston, and some others in the South, Chicago, LA, SF, and probably Seattle. But only a few of them will touch Manhattan's levels and it would only be in bits.
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  #53  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 5:47 PM
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New York is big, stinky and wonderful. Happy to call it home.
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  #54  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 9:26 PM
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It has become too socially segregated for my taste, and too expensive.
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  #55  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 9:43 PM
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New York is the capital of earth and as such, will be the first major city to be destroyed when aliens decide to attack earth.
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  #56  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 10:48 PM
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I love New York City. A lot. I just love Chicago more, that's all
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  #57  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
It isn't without its faults, but I can say arguably as a born New Yorker that this one of the greatest cities that has ever existed. Every city that I've been to in this country pales in comparison, especially the Southern cities. Only a few cities have or will probably have the potential to be like just one of the outer boroughs and those are many of the Northeast cities, Miami, Houston, and some others in the South, Chicago, LA, SF, and probably Seattle. But only a few of them will touch Manhattan's levels and it would only be in bits.
+1

And it will remain that way until say 2100, when hurricanes/sea levels destroy the whole world
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  #58  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 11:45 PM
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New York is the capital of earth and as such, will be the first major city to be destroyed when aliens decide to attack earth.

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  #59  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2014, 12:29 AM
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Late '90s NYC >>> Today's NYC

But then again

Late '90s Me >>> Today's Me
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  #60  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2014, 1:38 AM
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^^^but naturally, bill pullman will be president and we already have some captured alien space technology ready to kick ass with. as with every great historical empire, there must be a capital, at this point we are experiencing the zenith of american power. 100 years from now, who knows, maybe china will have the next new york. who saw looper? remember jeff daniels as the crime boss from the future...."you go to china. im from the future, go to china!".....
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