Your city's Chinatown

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

You act like Chinatown is separated from the rest of the city on all sides by desert.

i said that chicago's chinatown lacks good pedestrian/urban fabric connection with the rest of the city. that differentiates it from other well known anglosphere chinatowns and makes it feel more of a wold of its own compared to the other major chinatowns. whether that reality is a good thing or a bad thing is up to the eye of the beholder, but it does make it different.

Tom, do you honestly feel that chicago's chinatown has good pedestrian and urban fabric connection to the city around it?

if you do, then you and i have some fundamentally and radically different ideas about what constitutes good urban fabric connection.

at which point we will have to agree to disagree and move on.

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

do you honestly feel that chicago's chinatown has good pedestrian and urban fabric connection to the city around it?

With the city to the southwest, south, and east, yes. Of course. With the the Loop and Lower West Side neighborhoods across the river? Not so much. Like I said, Chinatown is only really isolated if you're viewing it through a Loop-centric lens. Or likewise through the lens of a North Side translate who views the South Side as some kind of forbidden place.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

With the city to the west, south, and east, yes. Of course. With the the Loop and Lower West Side neighborhoods across the river? Not so much. Like I said, Chinatown is only really isolated if you're viewing it through a Loop-centric lens. Or likewise through the lens of a North Side translate who views the South Side as some kind of forbidden place.

if you honestly think that chinatown has good urban fabric connection with the area immediately south across the stevenson expressway trench or east across the giant swath of dan ryan feeder ramps and railroad viaducts, then we are are squarely in "agree to disagree" territory because there is no universe in which i would consider a giant freaking expressway trench to be "good urban fabric connection".

shine on you crazy diamond.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

That's only one of them too.
I know you said Urban Chinatowns so I won't talk about Markham, but Chinatown East is urban enough over at Gerrard and Broadview.

Yes. Nice pics. The Gerard St. Chinatown never really took off but at one time (maybe in the 80s?) many believed that it was poised to eclipse the main Chinatown.

From the 2 census tracts covering Gerard from Broadview to Logan, there's a Chinese population of about 3,500 - about 30% of the population in the 2 tracts. The tract north of Gerard quickly turns into yuppie North Riverdale and isn't very Chinese, but I included it.

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

if you honestly think that chinatown has good urban fabric connection with the area immediately south across the stevenson expressway trench or east across the giant swath of dan ryan feeder ramps and railroad viaducts

Stewart. It goes right across the Stevenson, it's a quiet, car free neighborhood street. Very walkable. Very bike-able. Or you can always walk across Canal or Wentworth, both have sidewalks. Oh, and 18th, 22nd, 26th, and Archer all will get you under those scary viaducts and around all the expressway mess. Idk, maybe all the rail yards, viaducts, and expressway infrastructure can be a little harsh for people who aren't from the city. But yeah, agree to disagree. That's fine.

[Docere]

Some pics of Toronto's Chinatown:



Source: http://www.hicker-stock-photography....ontario-73.jpg



Source: http://www.toronto-chinatown.info/ph...hinatown-1.jpg



Source: http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/med.../chinatown.jpg



Source: http://www.ontario-vacation-destinat...own-street.jpg



Source: http://www.propertyguidetoronto.com/...-Chinatown.jpg



Source: http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7...51zo4_1280.jpg

[FREKI]

Copenhagen doesn't have one - here immigrants are typically spread out across the city, the Chinese typically settles in surburban areas

[Minato Ku]

There are several pocket of Chinese concentration in Paris.
The two biggest one are in the 13th arrondissement between Place d'Italie and Porte de Choisy and Belleville.











Belleville




Chinese (mostly from Wenzhou) control the wholesale market in Paris area (remplacing the North African Jews).
Areas like Le Sentiers (2nd arrondissement), Art et Metier (3rd), Pompicourt (11th), Aubervilliers are dominated by chinese owned shops even if it is not ethnic products.
You will still find some like around Arts-et-Metiers.

Arts-et-Metiers

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

Idk, maybe all the rail yards, viaducts, and expressway infrastructure can be a little harsh for people who aren't from the city.

Even though these are quintessentially suburban features?

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Even though these are quintessentially suburban features?

Well then I guess Chicago is one big suburb then because it's full of them, especially the former two. And it was a comment more about the less-than-pretty urban conditions down in that specific area... that is, not the fluid, romanticized, Manhatten-like urban fabric SteelyDan was looking for. The area surrounding is a bit coarse in spots.

[Docere]

Vancouver's historic Chinatown is about as old as the city itself. But only about 3,000 Chinese living in Chinatown-Stratchona (40% of the area's population). It's located in the poorest part of Vancouver and the city's Chinese population has largely moved to South Vancouver and Richmond. But Vancouver as a whole is so Chinese that a "Chinatown" is kind of redundant.



Source: https://insidenanabreadshead.files.w...-chinatown.jpg



Source: http://604now.com/new/wp-content/upl...81-508x381.jpg



Source: http://schemamag.ca/wp-content/uploa...ightmarket.jpg



Source: http://www.seechinatown.com/street/1050-16.jpg

The Chinese population is very poor, elderly and linguistically isolated:

http://thetyee.ca/News/2013/04/01/Chinatown-Seniors/

The area is threatened by gentrification, with the support of Vancouver developers and the Chinatown BIA. In contrast to Toronto, the "Chinatown" label has a certain cache. In Toronto, condo developers etc. rarely explicitly promote their projects as "Chinatown."

Toronto's Chinatown is bigger than Vancouver's, Vancouver's is more historic. Toronto's present-day Chinatown had a Jewish character for about 50-60 years and has been its Chinatown for the last 40-50 years.

[Tom Servo]

This is a rather subjective question, but which Canadian city has the best Chinatown? Or rather, what is the Canadian San Francisco?

I've always heard Toronto has a pretty quintessential Chinatown.

[sbarn]

New York's "real" Chinatown isn't in Manhattan anymore, its in Flushing, Queens.

[MolsonExport]

It always was Vancouver's, but now I'd say it was Toronto's (the one at Spadina/Kensington, etc.)

[brickell]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

Snerk. Love it.

Here, we have a subdivision where the percentage of Asian residents is a whopping three percent!

An interesting comparison idea.
Using the NYTimes Census map for 2010. Miami's highest "Asian" census tract is on the campus of the University of Miami and is 12%. Most of them are probably Chinese nationals with no plans on staying.

There's only 3 census tracts total in South Florida at 10% or higher.

Orlando's highest is near the attractions at 21%. Most likely temporary theme park workers. There is a little Saigon near downtown Orlando, but that doesn't show up in the numbers.


Tampa's highest is 18% at the campus of USF. There's also a concentration in St. Pete. Not sure what's going on there.

Jacksonville has a concentration in it's southeast suburbs with the highest at 18%.

Pretty sad showing.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

This is a rather subjective question, but which Canadian city has the best Chinatown? Or rather, what is the Canadian San Francisco?

I've always heard Toronto has a pretty quintessential Chinatown.

It is indeed subjective.

Like San Francisco, Vancouver's Chinatown dates back to the 19th century and has a richer history as a Chinese enclave.

Toronto's has a larger Chinese population (7,500) than Vancouver's (3,000). Both are about half a square mile land area.

In terms of the surrounding neighborhood, Toronto's Kensington Market and Chinatown are basically the same neighborhood (though Kensington doesn't have an explicitly Chinese identity). Vancouver's Chinatown is next to the Downtown Eastside, though it is a short walk to Gastown as well.

In terms of the future, Toronto's Chinatown has held steady over the last 20 years but Vancouver's population I'm pretty sure is declining at a pretty considerable rate. Toronto's Chinatown is also near U of T so Chinese students will likely continue to live in or at least frequent the area.

But one advantage Vancouver's has is that has been Chinatown since the beginning, and there's an effort to retain its historic presence. In other words, it'll always be Chinatown even if only a handful of Chinese live there. In Toronto's Chinatown-Spadina-Kensington area, it's seen different waves of immigration over time, so it could cease to have a Chinese identity at some point.

According to this (entirely subjective) top 10 ranking of Chinatowns around the world, Toronto comes in at #3 and Vancouver at #9. Though it doesn't really say anything about Toronto's Chinatown in the description.

http://www.insightguides.com/inspire...s-of-the-world

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Docere

In terms of the future, Toronto's Chinatown has held steady over the last 20 years but Vancouver's population I'm pretty sure is declining at a pretty considerable rate.

There's been quite a lot of residential development happening in Vancouver's Chinatown recently. I heard that Chinese are now calling it Western Town, I guess because it's going through a transition from being a Chinese oriented neighbourhood to a Caucasian neighbourhood. In any event, it's going to be a super cool area to live or hang out in.

There's a viaduct that's expected to be torn down that will pave the way for major residential development on the edge of Chinatown. Gentrification indeed.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by sbarn

New York's "real" Chinatown isn't in Manhattan anymore, its in Flushing, Queens.

And Sunset Park. Flushing and Sunset Park are the biggest NYC Chinatowns, both far bigger than Manhattan Chinatown.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

if you honestly think that chinatown has good urban fabric connection with the area immediately south across the stevenson expressway trench or east across the giant swath of dan ryan feeder ramps and railroad viaducts, then we are are squarely in "agree to disagree" territory because there is no universe in which i would consider a giant freaking expressway trench to be "good urban fabric connection".

shine on you crazy diamond.

Gotta agree, Chinatown is pretty isolated from all directions, perhaps with the exception of SW (and even then it's not exactly free flowing into vibrant residential areas)

[simms3_redux]

SF and NYC have a similar thing going on with their Chinatowns. For starters, "Chinatown" in either city is smaller than the other Chinatowns that have popped up elsewhere (for instance in Flushing, Queens or in the Richmond District in SF). Both Chinatowns are BY FAR the most notable and the largest in NA from a traditional perspective (how big of an area inhabited by Chinese, how authentic, how Chinese looking is it, etc). Both are seamlessly integrated into an already dense urban fabric near a downtown area, and thus are huge tourist draws. Both have encroached on either city's original Italian enclave.

The fact of the matter is that New York has several large and notable Chinatowns. So does the Bay Area. Speaking for the latter, outside of "Chinatown", there's the Richmond (which has a ton of remaining ethnic enclaves of Asian and European origin much in the same way the Outer Boroughs do), the Sunset, and another Chinatown in Oakland.

Chinatown in SF may only have 10-20k Chinese permanent residents at any given time. I would lean towards the latter because Chinatown's population bleeds into both Nob Hill and North Beach (the Italian side). However, it still serves as the center of the area's Chinese community and as such, tens of thousands of Chinese take transit in daily to do their shopping, to work, and to hang out. While super touristy, 99% of the time there will be far more Chinese walking around Chinatown than tourists. Put 2 + 2 together and you can imagine that there are immense crowds. In fact, it's crowded enough where intersections have 4-corner AND diagonal cross signals and all traffic is stopped.