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  #21  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2017, 2:13 AM
mytwocents mytwocents is offline
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Originally Posted by Rollerstud98 View Post
Which is exactly what was proposed with CalgaryNext
Ah you're right, for some reason I thought they were proposing the city run it but not own it.
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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2017, 2:18 AM
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Originally Posted by VIce View Post
The Bombers were able to strike a deal with the U of Manitoba for IGF. Is something similar really unbelievable in Calgary?
Well the lands where McMahon and Foothills Athletic Park are would easily accommodate CalgaryNext or some version of it. But it is not near downtown and many would probably be critical of the road and LRT situation in the area - not sufficient plus limited bars/pubs/restaurants nearby.
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  #23  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2017, 9:18 AM
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Realistically, how long to build a stand (one side of the field) and have it to the approximate standard of BMO in Toronto?

Why not just replace McMahon in stages? Demolish the West Stand as soon as football season ends, pre-fabricate as much as possible, or sacrifice parking for a season in order to build a new CFL grade stadium alongside McMahon. European soccer stadia have been upgraded in this fashion for ever. I watched them demolish just one side of the Parken in Copenhagen, and it's in the middle of a public park without the benefit of swaths of surface parking to stage the construction in.
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  #24  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2017, 3:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffwhit View Post
Realistically, how long to build a stand (one side of the field) and have it to the approximate standard of BMO in Toronto?

Why not just replace McMahon in stages? Demolish the West Stand as soon as football season ends, pre-fabricate as much as possible, or sacrifice parking for a season in order to build a new CFL grade stadium alongside McMahon. European soccer stadia have been upgraded in this fashion for ever. I watched them demolish just one side of the Parken in Copenhagen, and it's in the middle of a public park without the benefit of swaths of surface parking to stage the construction in.
Again, it all simply comes down to the ownership of McMahon - the current owners have no need of a new stadium or even one the has the seating capacity of the current stadium. With all the UofC has on it's plate, I suspect that replacing or renovating McMahon to a more current CFL model just is not of much interest to them - hell, most Dino football games can't even attract 3,000 people and only if the weather is favourable.

Now one could argue that McMahon was built with the CFL in mind, but those were different times and I do not believe that the current CSEC ownership group are quite as philanthropic as the McMahon brothers were.
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  #25  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2017, 6:47 PM
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Again, it all simply comes down to the ownership of McMahon - the current owners have no need of a new stadium or even one the has the seating capacity of the current stadium. With all the UofC has on it's plate, I suspect that replacing or renovating McMahon to a more current CFL model just is not of much interest to them - hell, most Dino football games can't even attract 3,000 people and only if the weather is favourable.

Now one could argue that McMahon was built with the CFL in mind, but those were different times and I do not believe that the current CSEC ownership group are quite as philanthropic as the McMahon brothers were.
I understand that issue, but does anyone know if it is feasible? CSEC is going to have to re calibrate their expectations anyway when it comes to real estate. I'm wondering, hypothetically, if they entered into a partnership with the U of C, could they replace McMahon without relocating anything?
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  #26  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2017, 7:09 PM
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I understand that issue, but does anyone know if it is feasible? CSEC is going to have to re calibrate their expectations anyway when it comes to real estate. I'm wondering, hypothetically, if they entered into a partnership with the U of C, could they replace McMahon without relocating anything?
Sure it's quite possible but start on the east side first as it's in much worse condition than the west side.
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  #27  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2017, 7:40 PM
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Redoing the stadium in phases actually sounds like a great idea... it will be tough for CSEG to match the location they currently have, and breaking the project into bitable chunks over a decade would make a stadium renewal much more realistic.

Like someone said, they do this in Europe all the time so I'm not sure why it couldn't work in Canada.
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  #28  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2017, 8:29 PM
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So does anyone believe that the owners of CSEC would be interested in any sort of a partnership with the UofC or a sizeable donation to bring about a stadium venture on the UofC's lands? Could the efforts be combined with the group that is pushing the indoor field house in Calgary that they've envisioned for the same area?
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  #29  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2017, 3:45 PM
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So does anyone believe that the owners of CSEC would be interested in any sort of a partnership with the UofC or a sizeable donation to bring about a stadium venture on the UofC's lands? Could the efforts be combined with the group that is pushing the indoor field house in Calgary that they've envisioned for the same area?
No, obviously not. that why they want the city to give them the hypothetical fieldhouse money to use for a football stadium.
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  #30  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 4:11 PM
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Posted this over at CP, felt it's appropriate here as well:

According to McMahon Stadium society, they ran a redevelopment report back in 2012, and according to it $70-$90M would be enough to modernize the stadium. From the report, they've got these findings:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PLAYBOOK: McMahon Stadium Redevelopment Concepts Final Report (2012)
The stadium is in good general structural condition due to an annual maintenance program in the range of $200K per year (funds are provided from ongoing operations).

An investment of approximately $2.08M (current value based on capital escalation from 2015 construction estimates, ref. Morrison Hershfield Report) over the next four to five years would ensure the stadium structure and mechanical systems could provide service for another 25 to 30 years. A funding source has not been identified for this work.

An investment of approximately $36.7M (current value based on capital escalation from 2007 construction estimates, ref. CANNONDESIGN Report) for improvements to the existing concourse would improve user experience and address the majority of current user convenience issues. A funding source has not been identified for this work.

The McMahon Stadium Society has explored full modernization of the stadium, including:
  • new main entrance and lobby
  • two levels of corporate boxes
  • a hall of fame
  • a new Stamps store
  • booth/box/suite spectator amenities throughout the existing seating
  • adding a south concourse level to replace the existing fieldhouse
  • adding washrooms and meeting rooms
  • providing pedestrian connectivity throughout entire stadium
Execution of all proposed amenities would represent an investment in the range of $69.4-89.2M (current value based on capital escalation from 2012 construction estimates,
Now, further review would be necessary to validate the costs, but the report confirms that McMahon stadium still has life in it with proper TLC. Considering how frequently it gets used, and whom uses it, it does it's job.

The foundations of McMahon is fine, it just needs a lot of work done to it in features. Everything in the list above would help elevate it's status. I feel the only thing missing is replacing all of the seats to the same chair style. No benches or buckets.

I think when it comes to building a new stadium or just simply renovating McMahon, it'll come down to just how much more it would cost to build a new venue, and what is gained out of it. One thing that definitely would be beneficial to both the city and University of Calgary is the land that McMahon currently occupies. Even if they put the new stadium in the same area, but more south towards 16th, it'll make the area more developer friendly. Instead of having to build around the stadium, you have a whole squared out boundary to work with that can allow for the community to have unity due to proper building, street, and pathways layout.

However, the fieldhouse still needs to be built. The costs of building a new stadium on top of that, and also possibly chiping into the new Victoria Park/Stampede arena, and the city/other levels of government are investing too much money to accommodate CSEC. So a new stadium may be a bit much, and it's better off to renovate McMahon.

Unless the new stadium is also the new fieldhouse. Then you can kill three birds with one stone. New fieldhouse, new stadium, and all of the McMahon lands freed up for prime TOD development. I feel this is the option that will get serious consideration out of all. If it only costs an additional ~$100M to build the fieldhouse to stadium specs, then it'll be worth it rather than putting the money into McMahon, since it'll last longer and you don't have to deal with the constraints that redeveloping McMahon currently has. I feel this is what CSEC was hinting at with the CalgaryNEXT proposal. 'Even if we don't go with the original plan of combing the fieldhouse/stadium with the arena, keep in mind that fieldhouse and stadium can still be one of the same.'

But, the primary objective of the fieldhouse is to provide an indoor 400M track that meets IAAF standards, and is readily available for recreational, amateur, varsity, and national team athletes to use. Not only would the stamps have to occupy the building as little as possible, but the reclining seats cannot damage/wear down the track. The functionality of the fieldhouse and track cannot be compromised if the Stampeders are going to be tenants for their games and possibly practices (which take up a lot of time throughout the season).

So there will have to be a report after the arena ordeal gets figured out to confirm which option works that can accommodate everyone. If I was to call the shots here, I would go with combining the stadium with the fieldhouse, on the condition that CSEC builds a separate training facility to run their practices so then the track and field is only inaccessible for around gamedays. There would be cost-savings, and gains from TOD development of the McMahon Stadium lands.
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  #31  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2017, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Joborule View Post
. I feel the only thing missing is replacing all of the seats to the same chair style. No benches or buckets.
Supposedly this is a major issue with the building, the space for benches is smaller than that required for seats, so updating to seats would be a bit more involved. It's been a long time since I was there, but I do remember the bench rows being pretty tightly packed.
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  #32  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2017, 8:58 PM
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^ As a STH I can confirm that ALL the rows are tightly packed and the overall poor/basic design means crossing a lot of legs to get to an aisle, if you're unfortunate enough to be sitting in the middle. Not sure how you fix that.
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  #33  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2017, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by tomthumb2 View Post
^ As a STH I can confirm that ALL the rows are tightly packed and the overall poor/basic design means crossing a lot of legs to get to an aisle, if you're unfortunate enough to be sitting in the middle. Not sure how you fix that.
New stadium
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  #34  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2017, 6:24 AM
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With new Victoria park plan b arena announcement here's what makes sense:
If new arena costs over $500 million then expand Vic park land and build Calgary next there for $880 million k.Kings new estimate. I am over 5ft10" tall and can not watch flames or stamps in the current seats without leg cramps. It hurts so much to sit crammed in the current stadium and arenas.I would actually attend games and pay more to watch in comfort. And yes I'd pay as a taxpayer to have an all in 1 world class facility and watch MLS and a world cup soccer game in Calgary when the combined 3 country bid gets approved for 2026 as well as our new Olympic 2026 games site.lrt stationundergroundvic park lots of land let's build it and put people to work. Build all 3 facility's and keep saddledome for 2026 backup. Ps- Edmonton may get awarded new Alberta aquarium. Why? Calgary needs a unique year round indoor water park. Saddledome Reno perhaps would be amazing. Major tourist draw. Bring in margaritaville also like originally annex. Come on Calgary let's grow up and stop following Edmonton. Also add on another observation to the cgy tower and make it tallest westof t.o. and top Edmonton's stantec..
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  #35  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2017, 4:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SEsupporter View Post
With new Victoria park plan b arena announcement here's what makes sense:
If new arena costs over $500 million then expand Vic park land and build Calgary next there for $880 million k.Kings new estimate. I am over 5ft10" tall and can not watch flames or stamps in the current seats without leg cramps. It hurts so much to sit crammed in the current stadium and arenas.I would actually attend games and pay more to watch in comfort. And yes I'd pay as a taxpayer to have an all in 1 world class facility and watch MLS and a world cup soccer game in Calgary when the combined 3 country bid gets approved for 2026 as well as our new Olympic 2026 games site.lrt stationundergroundvic park lots of land let's build it and put people to work. Build all 3 facility's and keep saddledome for 2026 backup. Ps- Edmonton may get awarded new Alberta aquarium. Why? Calgary needs a unique year round indoor water park. Saddledome Reno perhaps would be amazing. Major tourist draw. Bring in margaritaville also like originally annex. Come on Calgary let's grow up and stop following Edmonton. Also add on another observation to the cgy tower and make it tallest westof t.o. and top Edmonton's stantec..
If you're looking for comfort in the new arena be prepared to be disappointed. I'm 6'1" and I attended a concert at Rogers Place in Edmonton and was shocked to discover the leg room was so tight that the only way I could comfortably sit in the seats was to cross my legs underneath the seat.

Having attended events at the 'next-generation' arenas in Toronto, Ottawa, Winnipeg and Edmonton I can tell you that if the average fan thinks that their experience is going to improve over the Saddledome they are going to be sadly disappointed. These new arenas are all about lower bowl premium experiences, private boxes and back of house streamlining.... All of which are designed to maximize revenue for the ownership. They just want the average fan to buy in to the idea of amazing improvements so the ownership can have the average fan help pay for it.

*that being said, I'd still support some form of public support for the arena project in Victoria Park. I think the new arena and the Stampede Trail entertainment district along Olympic Way will serve as a catalyst to redevelopment in the area and is worthy of public funds for that reason. I was against CalgaryNext because I think realigning Bow Trail to the south to open up prime riverfront land to become greenspace and development parcels will be a similar catalyst for development out there that CalgaryNext would have actually taken away from.
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