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Old Posted Jul 13, 2015, 2:12 PM
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Charlotte's streetcar line opens tomorrow

Charlotte's streetcar line opens tomorrow, July 14th. The city's original streetcar lines stopped running 77 years ago. The total cost of the project was $37 million. Rides are free.







How long is the line?

1.5 miles is the initial length

What does it connect to?


The light rail line, bus transit center, arena, government buildings, Central Piedmont Community College, restaurants and bars in the Elizabeth neighborhood, Presbyterian Hospital. There is a short section of track connecting the streetcar to the light rail line so the streetcars will use the light rail maintenance facilities.

What is the rolling stock?

For the starter line, Charlotte is using three historic streetcars the city already owns. These historic streetcars were first used on a segment of track connecting center city with southend as a "starter line" before the light rail line was constructed. Since the light rail line was built, these were put in storage until now. There are plans to purchase modern streetcars once the streetcar line expands.


When will the streetcar expand beyond its first 1.5 mile segment?

Likely soon, thanks to matching federal funding that (hopefully) will be available. The 2nd phase will make the line nearly 4 miles, extending it a half mile to the west to Central Avenue (the Plaza-Midwood area) and close to 2 miles to the east to Johnson & Wales University, Wesley Heights neighborhood, and Johnson C Smith University.

Phase Two is expected to begin construction in 2016 and open in 2019.



Transit in a southern city; there's some controversy, isn't there?

Yeah. While the light rail line has far exceeded even optimistic estimates, in both ridership and transit-orientated development, many have been more skeptical of the streetcar line. While the light rail does not operate with traffic the streetcar operates nearly entirely in traffic. The concerns are that while travel times for light rail will always be identical, travel times for streetcar will vary and will slow as more traffic is on the road. Plus concerns are that the streetcar won't promote as much development as the light rail line has, and there will be more accidents. Oh, and the whole funding issue. Phase Two is priced at $150 million.

What other transit news is going on in Charlotte?

The light rail Blue Line extension has been under construction for a couple of year, extending the light rail line north of the city by 9.7 miles adding 11 more stations. Its planned opening is August 2017.





Details
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Old Posted Jul 13, 2015, 2:28 PM
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I have never been to Charlotte (other than the airport). Is light rail re-vitalizing the city centre? I notice from the map that downtown has been choked by a ring highway.
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  #3  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2015, 4:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
I have never been to Charlotte (other than the airport). Is light rail re-vitalizing the city centre? I notice from the map that downtown has been choked by a ring highway.
I wouldn't say light rail is revitalizing the city center, as it is/was already booming. There was a drop off during the recession, but now there are I think at least 5 20+ floor towers under construction and another 3 or so planned. (Check out the Charlotte thread in City Compilations)

The big impact has been the Southend district. It's the area just south of the ring highway (I-277). It was a long time neglected warehouse district that was mostly empty warehouses and empty lots. There has been a ton of residential development here since the light rail opened and it isn't slowing down. Several 10+ floor office and residential towers are planned along with the infill.





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Old Posted Jul 13, 2015, 5:00 PM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
I have never been to Charlotte (other than the airport). Is light rail re-vitalizing the city centre? I notice from the map that downtown has been choked by a ring highway.
Why having a ring highway ring around a downtown means a decaying downtown to you? Why having a light rail system mean a revitalizing city centre to you? Why do you feel that way?

Some interesting Charlotte statistics through the years.....
City Population (not metro statistics)
1920 44 thousand
1930 82 thousand (186% increase)
1940 101 thousand (23% increase)
1950 134 thousand (33% increase)
1960 201 thousand (150% increase)
1970 241 thousand (20% increase)
1980 315 thousand (31% increase)
1990 396 thousand (26% increase)
2000 540 thousand (36% increase)
2010 731 thousand (35% increase)
Notes
1-85 opened in Mecklenburg County in 1958
I-77 opened in Meckenburg County in 1967
Light rail opened in Charolette in 2007

I would suggest the opening of the first freeways and much earlier paved roads in Charolette accompanied much larger population growths than new transit.
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  #5  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2015, 6:39 PM
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How does the connection between the light rail and the streetcar work? From the map at the top it looks like the streetcar stops exactly between the LRT stations. Is there at least a convenient walkway between the two modes?
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Old Posted Jul 13, 2015, 7:04 PM
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Highway rings around downtown have had very destructive histories in cities all over the world. They cut downtown off from the surrounding neighborhoods, making downtown function like a separate place as opposed to an integrated part of the city. That makes it impossible (or at best unpleasant) to walk or bike from the neighborhoods into downtown, which in turn increases the driving rate and decreases the transit rate. You end up with a snowball effect where more and more people drive, and where the infrastructure changes to support cars more and more over time, with things like parking lots and surface streets engineered to be traffic sewers.

In many cities, building transit systems like light rail is part of the process of fixing that mistake, because transit can stitch downtown together with the surrounding neighborhoods without requiring all that car infrastructure that's so destructive.

Now, in Charlotte things are a little bit different, because Charlotte was not a particularly large city before its highways were built. So there simply wasn't much for them to destroy. But Charlotte did absolutely grow up during the 20th Century primarily around highways, and is now urbanizing, with the light rail a key part of the urbanizing strategy.

So the idea that a ring of highways is damaging, and light rail a strategy to fix it, is absolutely correct. Although the details of Charlotte are a bit abnormal.
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  #7  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2015, 9:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
So the idea that a ring of highways is damaging, and light rail a strategy to fix it, is absolutely correct. Although the details of Charlotte are a bit abnormal.
Opinions are nice and great topics for debates, but do you have any published studies or data to back up those opinions. Because I don't agree freeways surrounding central business districts creates poor economics.

Take a look at all the American cities having huge population increases and increase economic results since 1950, most have freeways completely surrounding their central business districts (CBD).
Here's the top 10 cities (not metros) in the USA examples,
#2 Los Angeles, #4 Houston, #5 Philadelphia, #6 Phoenix, #7 San Antonio, #9 Dallas, #10 San Jose,.
The three missing top 10 cities on this list have large bodies of water on one, two, or three sides of their CBDs, #1 New York City, #3 Chicago, and #8 San Diego. I suggest those bodies of water cut off neighborhoods from vivid and growing CBDs worse than any freeway.

Additionally and surprisingly, one of these largest 10 cities doesn't even have rail transit in place today, San Antonio. Facts seem to indicate that freeway access to CBDs improve economic conditions and resulting in huge population growth in cities.

Last edited by electricron; Jul 13, 2015 at 9:25 PM.
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  #8  
Old Posted Jul 13, 2015, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by electricron View Post
Because I don't agree freeways surrounding central business districts creates poor economics.
Not obviously "poor," but anything more reasonably dense, rationalizing room, thus cycling and pedestrian friendly is definitely, and even systematically wealthier.

I live an old town nastily hiding money (it is better off than you'll ever know) and a very old country, which means experience downright to the newborn.

Yes, if you can easily bike and walk your overall place, you'll be better off.

The Paris périphérique is a most obvious evidence of what Cirrus is referring to. I guess he knows about some stuff that'd be better for you...
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  #9  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2015, 2:43 AM
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My question had nothing to do with the prosperity of the overall city. My question was asking whether LRT was having a beneficial effect on the downtown area.

As Cirrus indicated, ring highways typically segregated downtown areas from the rest of the city and encouraged the predominance of car travel and parking lots in downtown areas at the expense of density, pedestrian traffic and general liveliness. That may not be case in Charlotte but I have no way of knowing.
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Old Posted Jul 14, 2015, 2:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
My question had nothing to do with the prosperity of the overall city. My question was asking whether LRT was having a beneficial effect on the downtown area.

As Cirrus indicated, ring highways typically segregated downtown areas from the rest of the city and encouraged the predominance of car travel and parking lots in downtown areas at the expense of density, pedestrian traffic and general liveliness. That may not be case in Charlotte but I have no way of knowing.
More transportation options is always a good idea, one could argue San Antonio would be even a larger city with rail transit.

But not everyone wants to live in an urban environment. To state that an urban environment is better than suburban without facts to back up that statement is being pompous. I would like to point out that every city in the world has suburbs with people living in an suburban environment, EVERY city!
The statistic I find proving that a suburban environment is better for kids and families is better grades on standardize tests from suburban schools. But maybe I'm wrong with that opinion, but I'll let you prove that by providing links, I'm getting tired posting data while everyone else gets away avoiding that task.
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  #11  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2015, 5:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electricron View Post
Because I don't agree freeways surrounding central business districts creates poor economics.
They create poor urbanism. That's somewhat different than economics.

If you google "damaging urban freeways" you get 30 million results.

If you google "highways destroy cities" you get 7 million results.

If you google "downtown highway loop destructive" you get 500,000 results.

If you google "downtown highways are bad" you get 30 million results.

This is not really a subject up for debate. It's been a well established fact of urban planning for, well, decades. If you need me to explain it more I'll be happy to. But it's most definitely not merely one person's opinion. It's the prevailing wisdom of the contemporary city planning field.
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Old Posted Jul 14, 2015, 6:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electricron View Post
More transportation options is always a good idea, one could argue San Antonio would be even a larger city with rail transit.

But not everyone wants to live in an urban environment. To state that an urban environment is better than suburban without facts to back up that statement is being pompous. I would like to point out that every city in the world has suburbs with people living in an suburban environment, EVERY city!
The statistic I find proving that a suburban environment is better for kids and families is better grades on standardize tests from suburban schools. But maybe I'm wrong with that opinion, but I'll let you prove that by providing links, I'm getting tired posting data while everyone else gets away avoiding that task.
Wait, this is a thread about Charlotte's new downtown streetcar line, right?
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  #13  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2015, 7:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
They create poor urbanism. That's somewhat different than economics.

This is not really a subject up for debate. It's been a well established fact of urban planning for, well, decades. If you need me to explain it more I'll be happy to. But it's most definitely not merely one person's opinion. It's the prevailing wisdom of the contemporary city planning field.
Webster on "urbanism"
1: the characteristic way of life of city dwellers
2a: the study of the physical needs of urban societies
b: city planning

Webster on "economics"
1a: a social science concerned chiefly with description and analysis of the production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services
b: economic theory, principles, or practices <sound economics>
2: economic aspect or significance <the economics of building a new stadium>
3: economic conditions <current economics>

Google search of "freeways are great" = 5,690,000 results
Google search of "paved highways are great" = 12,400,000 results
Google search of paved roads are great = 46,200,000 results
Google search of "roads are great" = 272,000,000 results

Vehicles
Google search of "cars are great" =702,000,000 results
Google search of "trucks are great" = 192,000,000 results
Google search of "trains are great" = 173,000,000 results
Google search of "planes are great" = 157,000,000 results
Google search of "bikes are great" = 154,000,000 results
Google search of "buses are great" = 138,000,000 results
Google search of "public transit is great" = 61,700,000 results
Google search of "passenger trains are great" = 57,400,000 results

I can play that Google search game too

Worldwide new car sales according to consulting firm IHS Automotive.
2010 = 73.2 million
2011 = 76.7 million (4.7% increase)
2012 = 79.5 million (3.6% increase)
2013 = 82.8 million (4.1% increase)
2014 = ~86 million (3.8% increase)

Cars and trucks are still very and ever more popular every year!

At an average 4% increase every year, in less than 25 years the number of new car sales each year will double. That's the reason why "planners" wish to encourage "citizens" to use an alternate means of transportation, they don't want to build up to and maintain "twice" the amount of highway lane miles in the next 25 years. But if you look at past history, the number of motorized vehicles sales have increased around 4% per year for decades.

It's a double twister, the more highway lane miles you build, it appears that more cars and trucks there are to fill them. But the opposite is also true, more and more new cars are being sold every year, and the existing roads congestion levels are ever increasing. A moratorium on new highway construction hasn't slowed increasing new car sales. So the scenario that wider highways are encouraging more cars to fill them isn't true...it's just a coincidence....there are more cars anyways.

Last edited by electricron; Jul 14, 2015 at 7:37 AM.
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  #14  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2015, 7:40 AM
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^Quit hijacking threads, or I'll help you quit hijacking them.
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  #15  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2015, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Hatman View Post
How does the connection between the light rail and the streetcar work? From the map at the top it looks like the streetcar stops exactly between the LRT stations. Is there at least a convenient walkway between the two modes?
Good question. The streetcar stops right in front of the Charlotte Transportation Center which is the main bus terminal. That is connected to the elevated light rail station.

In this photo taken during construction, you see the streetcar stop will be in the center of the street. On the left is the transportation center, and above the street is the light rail station. You would walk to the left into the transit center and take the stairs/ramp to the light rail line (or walk to the right where there are also stairs and an elevator.



An older photo giving a view from the opposite angle:

Last edited by initiald; Jul 14, 2015 at 4:42 PM.
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Old Posted Jul 14, 2015, 2:06 PM
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Good to see Charlotte is continuing to invest in its rail system. I'm impressed.
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Old Posted Jul 14, 2015, 4:25 PM
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Oh I see. You're not interested in your original question, you're just looking for excuses to argue about how we should love cars more. Got it. Have a nice day, then.
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Old Posted Jul 14, 2015, 5:00 PM
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US Transportation Secretary and former Charlotte mayor Anthony Foxx on hand for the opening:



Grubb Properties showcasing streetcar in their development plans along Elizabeth outside the I-277 beltway:



Source


Source

Video!
Video Link
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  #19  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2015, 5:55 PM
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Cool Project, and thanks for answering my question. I misread the map - of course the light rail would stop at the 'Transportation Center'! It's nice to see these new large public transportation hubs take shape.
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  #20  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2015, 7:07 PM
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Cool Project, and thanks for answering my question. I misread the map - of course the light rail would stop at the 'Transportation Center'! It's nice to see these new large public transportation hubs take shape.
The next segment of the streetcar line, which is scheduled to open in 2019, will connect the transit center and light rail line with the location of the future high speed rail Amtrak station and Greyhound bus station (Megabus stops adjacent to the transit center). The next phase of light rail is set to open 2017 by the way.
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