Calgary International Airport III - Page 3

ace.yyc · #41 Posted **Nov 16, 2023, 4:06 AM**

This is not how they actually rotate but just play along. 7 planes total.

One each for three of the dailies: CDG, FCO, NRT
Two for EDI/BCN/DUB because on any given day, only 2 of the 3 are operating.

That leaves 2 frames that do the following rotation:

Day 1: YYC 656 YYZ 669 YYC 18 LHR
Day 2: LHR 19 YYC

hollywoodcory · #42 Posted **Nov 16, 2023, 5:38 PM**

With the latest WS updates, here is a snapshot of S24 intercontinental for YYC:

LHR - 14x weekly (7x AC / 7x WS)
FRA - 14x weekly (12x 4Y / 2x DE)
CDG - 7x weekly (WS)
AMS - 7x weekly (KL)
NRT - 7x weekly (WS)
FCO - 6x weekly (WS)
DUB - 5x weekly (WS)
BCN - 4x weekly (WS)
EDI - 4x weekly (WS)
KEF - 4x weekly (WS)
ZRH - 3x weekly (WK)

Total: 75 weekly (B = new / I = increased)

With the WS gains in NRT, if my math is correct YYC will also surpass S19 total weekly seat capacity to Asia as well (2,143 in 2019 compared to 2,240 in 2024.) It's still down in terms off number of weekly flights though (10 in 2019 to 7 in 2024.)

With WS leaving LGW, be interesting to see if maybe we could see BA return?

KLM also has added capacity increasing to a daily 772 instead of 772/789 mix.

People_talking · #43 Posted **Nov 16, 2023, 11:03 PM**

A BA return would be amazing

hehehe · #44 Posted **Nov 16, 2023, 11:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory

With the latest WS updates, here is a snapshot of S24 intercontinental for YYC:

LHR - 14x weekly (7x AC / 7x WS)
FRA - 14x weekly (12x 4Y / 2x DE)
CDG - 7x weekly (WS)
AMS - 7x weekly (KL)
NRT - 7x weekly (WS)
FCO - 6x weekly (WS)
DUB - 5x weekly (WS)
BCN - 4x weekly (WS)
EDI - 4x weekly (WS)
KEF - 4x weekly (WS)
ZRH - 3x weekly (WK)

Total: 75 weekly (B = new / I = increased)

With the WS gains in NRT, if my math is correct YYC will also surpass S19 total weekly seat capacity to Asia as well (2,143 in 2019 compared to 2,240 in 2024.) It's still down in terms off number of weekly flights though (10 in 2019 to 7 in 2024.)

With WS leaving LGW, be interesting to see if maybe we could see BA return?

KLM also has added capacity increasing to a daily 772 instead of 772/789 mix.

YYC has usually always had more than 2x daily LON so I think it's quite likely BA does some sort of 3-5x weekly LGW flight eventually.

msmariner · #45 Posted **Nov 17, 2023, 12:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe

YYC has usually always had more than 2x daily LON so I think it's quite likely BA does some sort of 3-5x weekly LGW flight eventually.

BA usually does daily flights on routes doesn’t It? I would think they would go to LHR to

ace.yyc · #46 Posted **Nov 17, 2023, 1:34 PM**

Original BA launch for us was 5x weekly LHR on the 772 in 2006.

thenoflyzone · #47 Posted **Nov 17, 2023, 10:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe

YYC has usually always had more than 2x daily LON so I think it's quite likely BA does some sort of 3-5x weekly LGW flight eventually.

Several flaws with that logic.

#1. Another Canadian airport (YOW) has usually always had 1 daily to London as well. They don't anymore. I don't see BA trying to enter that market anytime soon. YEG and YWG have historically had flights to London as well. Same situation.

#2 When YYC did have more than 2 daily to London, they didn't have FCO, BCN, DUB, EDI, KEF, etc. This aspect is important. YYC now has a ton of seats to Europe in summer. That fact is not lost on BA, and negatively affects the chances of a European carrier entering YYC.

So even if we forget the fact that they'd be the third carrier on YYC-London, all of these new WS TATL flights make the likelihood of BA considering starting YYC very unlikely.

BA is clearly interested in launching secondary US destinations with no direct service to London. The yield on those routes will clearly be higher than being the third carrier to YYC, in a market that has a lot of seats to Europe already.

ace.yyc · #48 Posted **Nov 18, 2023, 12:53 AM**

All good points. It's not only just the WS seats to Europe that are ramping up in S24, but there's another 3 weekly widebodies worth with new 2x Condor service and an additional Edelweiss frequency.

While a BA return is very very unlikely, it's certainly interesting to consider the ramifications of WS cutting 320 daily seats to London, a flight that had very high LF. The obvious and primary beneficiary is AC850, but how many might fly YYC-CDG-LHR with the AF codeshare, or through AMS on KL? Gonna be fascinating to see how S24 plays out.

rdaner · #49 Posted **Nov 20, 2023, 3:32 AM**

Hi: I hope that this is the right thread. If Calgary gets a rail link to the airport to downtown, where would the downtown station be? Does Calgary have a Via station? Also if commuter rail is introduced, would it converge on the same central station? Thanks!

Tobuz · #50 Posted **Nov 20, 2023, 5:04 PM**

Slim pickings for YYC-KEF

Interestingly ... for the service offered on board these new flights ... WestJet does not treat these flights as Europe/TATL. They get a N/America level of service -- significantly less than what's offered on TATL flights. (Apparently that final little stretch from Iceland to the U.K. makes all the difference in making it count as "TATL"??)

To compare:

737 flights from YHZ/YYT to London:
Economy gets a "complimentary light meal", Premium gets "a Canadian inspired hot meal and a light snack"

737 flights from YYC to KEF:
In Economy, a "complimentary snack and non-alcoholic beverage will be provided" (aka a cookie or a tiny bag of pretzels), Premium gets a "light meal or light snack service".

WestJet shows flight time from YYT-LGW is 5 h 15 min. They show YYC-KEF to be 6 h 30 min.

So why does this new long haul flight from Calgary get shortchanged in both cabins?

Source: https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/flight-guide

Zmonkey · #51 Posted **Nov 20, 2023, 6:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobuz

Slim pickings for YYC-KEF

Interestingly ... for the service offered on board these new flights ... WestJet does not treat these flights as Europe/TATL. They get a N/America level of service -- significantly less than what's offered on TATL flights. (Apparently that final little stretch from Iceland to the U.K. makes all the difference in making it count as "TATL"??)

To compare:

737 flights from YHZ/YYT to London:
Economy gets a "complimentary light meal", Premium gets "a Canadian inspired hot meal and a light snack"

737 flights from YYC to KEF:
In Economy, a "complimentary snack and non-alcoholic beverage will be provided" (aka a cookie or a tiny bag of pretzels), Premium gets a "light meal or light snack service".

WestJet shows flight time from YYT-LGW is 5 h 15 min. They show YYC-KEF to be 6 h 30 min.

So why does this new long haul flight from Calgary get shortchanged in both cabins?

Source: https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/flight-guide

Because they know Iceland will be holiday travelers and price will be more important than service. london will always be compared to more premium competion and a chance to go after some business travelers.

This is no different from Calgary - Hawaii which is similar flight time.

Tobuz · #52 Posted **Nov 20, 2023, 10:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

Because they know Iceland will be holiday travelers and price will be more important than service. london will always be compared to more premium competion and a chance to go after some business travelers.

This is no different from Calgary - Hawaii which is similar flight time.

So you’re saying that St John’s NF - Gatwick is a premium, more business-focused route that warrants a significantly higher level of in-flight service … on a shorter flight?

And that they’re cheaping out on the YYC-KEF route simply because they can get away with it (but presumably they can’t get away with it on LGW routes from the Maritimea?)

It seems very odd that some 737 TATL flights get full service while others don’t. Big discrepancy. I would have thought that showing some consistency in service offering on similar routes would have factored in to how WS determines in-flight service.

People_talking · #53 Posted **Nov 20, 2023, 10:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdaner

Hi: I hope that this is the right thread. If Calgary gets a rail link to the airport to downtown, where would the downtown station be? Does Calgary have a Via station? Also if commuter rail is introduced, would it converge on the same central station? Thanks!

The current proposed rail link has the LRT spurring from the future Green Line and the Blue line to meet at the airport terminal, so as it is there isn't a downtown station since both LRT line will run through the core.

Calgary doesn't have a VIA Rail station, there used to be a station Downtown where the Calgary Tower/ Palliser Parkade now is, you can still see the loading platforms on Google Earth there.

There isn't a plan for commuter rail at the moment, but if there is a central downtown station would likely be built to serve the commuter rail, future Banff Rail connection, and the Calgary-Edmonton rail line. this would be somewhere around the Calgary Tower, either under the parkade or somewhere along the unused lots next to the train tracks downtown.

rdaner · #54 Posted **Nov 21, 2023, 12:34 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by People_talking

The current proposed rail link has the LRT spurring from the future Green Line and the Blue line to meet at the airport terminal, so as it is there isn't a downtown station since both LRT line will run through the core.

Calgary doesn't have a VIA Rail station, there used to be a station Downtown where the Calgary Tower/ Palliser Parkade now is, you can still see the loading platforms on Google Earth there.

There isn't a plan for commuter rail at the moment, but if there is a central downtown station would likely be built to serve the commuter rail, future Banff Rail connection, and the Calgary-Edmonton rail line. this would be somewhere around the Calgary Tower, either under the parkade or somewhere along the unused lots next to the train tracks downtown.

Thanks for the great response. Although i did read very recently that a commuter service was being looked at for Calgary out to Airdrie.

yyc_engineer · #55 Posted **Nov 21, 2023, 1:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobuz

WestJet shows flight time from YYT-LGW is 5 h 15 min. They show YYC-KEF to be 6 h 30 min.

So why does this new long haul flight from Calgary get shortchanged in both cabins?

Honestly at this point I would support legislation that any flight over a certain duration must provide a basic complimentary light meal. Doesn't have to be fancy with a bunch of courses, but not feeding people on these 6-7 hour flights to Iceland, Costa Rica, Jamaica etc. seems almost criminal.

MBJ-YEG is 7hrs 12min block time FFS

Tobuz · #56 Posted **Nov 21, 2023, 3:59 PM**

Given all of the cutbacks to their on board product, inconsistencies in service offering, and things like no food on KEF flights ... it seems that WestJet has left out the "premium" part of their new strategy to transform into a "premium leisure" carrier.

YYCguys · #57 Posted **Nov 21, 2023, 6:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

Honestly at this point I would support legislation that any flight over a certain duration must provide a basic complimentary light meal. Doesn't have to be fancy with a bunch of courses, but not feeding people on these 6-7 hour flights to Iceland, Costa Rica, Jamaica etc. seems almost criminal.

MBJ-YEG is 7hrs 12min block time FFS

Well to be fair, there are hot and cold food items to purchase so for anyone to say “there is no food” on these flights is a stretch. But what dollar amount would be considered acceptable to be added to the ticket price to have a complimentary meal served on flights of the length you mention above?

msmariner · #58 Posted **Nov 21, 2023, 6:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobuz

Given all of the cutbacks to their on board product, inconsistencies in service offering, and things like no food on KEF flights ... it seems that WestJet has left out the "premium" part of their new strategy to transform into a "premium leisure" carrier.

What does the competition offer on similar flights? Does IcelandAir offer hot food on its flights to YVR or SEA? Does AirCanada offer food on 6-7 hour MAX flights? I would say food for purchase would be common

hollywoodcory · #59 Posted **Nov 21, 2023, 8:45 PM**

October stats are in. Looks like YYC is on track to surpass its 2019 levels

Domestic: 1,142,144 +9.7% [2019 = 1,046,834]
Transborder: 342,218 +33.3% [2019 = 289,301]
International: 167,773 +39.9% [2019 = 117,017]

October Total: 1,634,135 +16.4% [2019 total = 1,453,152]

2023 YTD: 15,737,861 +31.23%

US/International continue to see the largest increases compared to 2019.

Zmonkey · #60 Posted **Nov 21, 2023, 9:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by msmariner

What does the competition offer on similar flights? Does IcelandAir offer hot food on its flights to YVR or SEA? Does AirCanada offer food on 6-7 hour MAX flights? I would say food for purchase would be common

IcelandAir does not offer food as part of the price, snacks and meals are to be purchased. Coffee/Water/Soft drinks are included.