July 1, 2020 Population Estimates - United States of America

[Crawford]

That's a big part of it, yeah. There are investment banks and law firms that hire from like five schools. Harvard alums who played squash will get preferential treatment.

But this is a tiny proportion of white collar jobs. Your typical college grad isn't itching to work at Lazard or Cravath. The kind of people that know/care about these things, outside of a few elitist enclaves, is near-zero.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Right, but they're state universities. Michigan's reasonable rates are for Michigan taxpayers. All the major states have elite or elite-leaning state universities, with reasonable rates, and even the smaller states have good state universities.

And relatively few people pay listed private school tuition prices. Most don't pay anywhere close. Yeah, if you're a household of doctors, you're gonna pay full freight, but they can afford it.

And if a non-wealthy household really doesn't want to pay for higher education, then move to a state that provides free or near-free tuition. NY State has free tuition for most applicants. Mass has something like this. CA is doing the same with the Cal State system. You know, the states that everyone complains has too high taxes, and which supposedly don't get them more services in return.

Since when does NYS have free tuition? That's the reason why I wound up in Texas because I would pay more at SUNY as a NY resident than a Texas school as a non resident. Last I knew, NY residents still had to pay tuition.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by JManc

Since when does NYS have free tuition? That's the reason why I wound up in Texas because I would pay more at SUNY as a NY resident than a Texas school as a non resident. Last I knew, NY residents still had to pay tuition.

NY State now has the Excelsior program, which provides free tuition to most fulltime in-state residents at all CUNY and SUNY schools.

https://www.ny.gov/programs/tuition-...or-scholarship

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

The elitism is on the other side of it too. A lot of large employers use schools as a filter for entry level programs. An applicant to an entry level role at Google or Facebook who graduated from City College in New York, or Wayne State in Detroit, won't be treated the same as one that graduated from the University of Michigan or Cornell.

True, but like I said, that's a tiny percentage of grads.

Originally Posted by Crawford

That's a big part of it, yeah. There are investment banks and law firms that hire from like five schools.

But this is a tiny proportion of white collar jobs. Your typical college grad isn't itching to work at Lazard or Cravath. The kind of people that know/care about these things is near-zero.

Right, it's a tiny percentage of people, even a very small portion of a graduating class from elite schools. Like playing professional sports, it's not even in the realm of possibility most grads.

[craigs]

Obviously parents want to get their kids into the best schools possible, but a student who is motivated to study hard and take advantage of the talent and resources available can earn an excellent education at just about any university.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Right, few states have a public university equal/better than U-M, but really all the bigger states have quality universities.

Universities like Florida, Alabama, Arizona, Penn State, Washington, Illinois, Wisconsin, Georgia, etc. are all high quality, selective institutions with big endowments and strong research capabilities. Not quite Michigan-level rankings but very good. You don't have to be wealthy or geographically fortunate to access a quality local public university.

Yeah, residents of at least California, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Texas, Virginia, Colorado, Pennsyvlania, Ohio, Florida, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Georgia and North Carolina have nothing to complain about here since all those states have very good public schools better than most private schools.

Some states are not as lucky and have severe brain drain problems where all the smart kids leave the state for college.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Yeah, residents of at least California, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Texas, Virginia, Colorado, Pennsyvlania, Ohio, Florida, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Georgia and North Carolina have nothing to complain about here since all those states have very good public schools better than most private schools.

Some states are not as lucky and have severe brain drain problems where all the smart kids leave the state for college.

I would take Pennsylvania off that list. Penn State and Pitt are not public schools like the others are. They are, in effect, private entities.

[Crawford]

And there are a lot of non-elite, not super selective, but high quality state institutions. Places like Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue and the like. They have some world-class programs, though they may not be quite as well rounded as a UC Berkeley, where quality is universal.

The larger point is that most people in most states aren't starved for quality public options.

[pj3000]

Yeah, just because some state universities aren’t widely viewed as elite, nor are highly selective in granting admission, does not mean that they aren’t high-quality institutions of teaching and research, many offering “world-class” programs. West Virginia immediately comes to mind. So does Texas A&M, Buffalo, LSU, Florida State, Indiana, Arizona State, etc etc etc

[Crawford]

Right. WV is a small, poor, poorly educated state, so it makes sense that its flagship institution isn't super selective, as its high schools aren't producing tons of upwardly mobile students, and it isn't an out-of-state draw. That doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't have world class programs (though honestly I don't know).

Then you have a state like CA, where even the newer universities are really good. UCSD and UCI are really young institutions, but have great reputations.

[Obadno]

Modern Academia outside of STEM is a joke.

Unless you studied quantum physics at MIT I am not impressed.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Modern Academia outside of STEM is a joke.

Unless you studied quantum physics at MIT I am not impressed.

as someone with a PhD in particle physics from MIT, I'm not sure what you mean.

[chris08876]

Too much emphasis on the name of the school. Yeah it might help to get the name to the top of the stack mostly entry level and maybe for some more elite/snobbish places, and it looks good on paper, but its not even anywhere near important in the long run FOR MOST FOLKS. Job performance and experience > name brand school.

I'd argue networking is better than the school you went too. Networking is underrated but powerful. Even networking with the right recruiter... it can be the difference between average career and super career.

Shit... there are some folks that go to trade school that are better off than some bloke going to Michigan State.

Folks thinking school name will make them good business people or good scientists. Eh... such is not the case. Hard work, and also genetics (helps) and luck. They all play a role.

[chris08876]

What really happens is that folks fall for the marketing, the advertisement of the school, and so they are willing to go broke when other schools can offer a solid education. And if one is going to these super pricy schools for a lackluster major, they are getting played.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

as someone with a PhD in particle physics from MIT, I'm not sure what you mean.

I dont know if you are joking but my comment is pretty clear.

Modern academia is a joke. Unless you have an advanced degree in a STEM field I dont find you or your school impressive.

Actually the only college kids I have ever met that I found legitimately impressive and stand out compared to their peers came from Notre Dame.

Students and adults I have met from other "elite" schools have never managed to standout in my experience, they seemed no smarter nor more capable than a regular kid from a state school (or none at all)

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I dont know if you are joking but my comment is pretty clear.

Modern academia is a joke. Unless you have an advanced degree in a STEM field I dont find you or your school impressive.

It does not sound to me that you're talking about academia at all, but the "quality" of enrolled undergrads? There are of course really smart people at every school and not everyone at elite schools is very smart (some are legacies and athletes ).

Actually the only college kids I have ever met that I found legitimately impressive and stand out compared to their peers came from Notre Dame.

Students and adults I have met from other "elite" schools have never managed to standout in my experience, they seemed no smarter nor more capable than a regular kid from a state school (or none at all)

Well, anecdotes are anecdotes, but I can tell you that when took mutivariate calculus / diff eq / linear algebra in high school at my local (flagship but lackluster) state university I found them incredibly easy and was by far the best student but when I had to take the same classes at Stanford because they wouldn't accept the credits I learned that I was not good at math and it was not for me .

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

It does not sound to me that you're talking about academia at all, but the "quality" of enrolled undergrads? There are of course really smart people at every school and not everyone at elite schools is very smart (some are legacies and athletes ).



Well, anecdotes are anecdotes, but I can tell you that when took mutivariate calculus / diff eq / linear algebra in high school at my local (flagship but lackluster) state university I found them incredibly easy and was by far the best student but when I had to take the same classes at Stanford because they wouldn't accept the credits I learned that I was not good at math and it was not for me .

Thank you for being exactly what I am talking about. I hope your farts smell good lmao

[Crawford]

Notre Dame, best known for their Covid-superspreading Prez, reactionary architecture department and underachieving FB team.

[badrunner]

It may not impress Obadno but we need non-STEM graduates too. I mean, who else is gonna work the counter at Starbucks and drive all those Ubers?

[IluvATX]

Someone who got their PhD at MIT should be doing something better than trolling SSP.
I know I would.