Canadian Foreign Policy & Affairs II

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You're normally smarter than this (descending into race-baiting).

More rationally, I suppose Canadians living in the US are a bit different as they are living in the belly of the nation's historico-cultural existential threat. Saying you're Canadian in the middle of the mass of Americans with whom you otherwise perfectly blend in with is kind of like dyeing your hair purple in high school.

Fadi in Beirut, Wei in Hong Kong or even Werner in Stuttgart or Didier in Toulouse will probably feel less of an urge to do that.

Regarding financial contributions to the Canadian economy, the average Canadian household pays about $40,000 a year in taxes of all kinds. Those Canadians of convenience who come and visit us in the summer are sure having lavish vacations back home if they're topping that amount in a few weeks.

Note that I am still not opposed to the government bringing Canadian citizens resident abroad back home if they're in trouble.

Yeah it was too inflammatory but I do think it's true Lebanese or Chinese dual citizens are not considered as Canadian as white Canadians who are the same. Now some of this is true. Many moved here as adults stayed 5 years and moved back but not always and that is my point I guess. We can't separate them so we have to treat them all equally. French kid 15 generations in Canada to moved to Lebanon for a girl and 1980s wealthy immigrant who renews their passport only in case of trouble and looks down on Canada as a cold and cultureless.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yeah it was too inflammatory but I do think it's true Lebanese or Chinese dual citizens are not considered as Canadian as white Canadians who are the same. Now some of this is true. Many moved here as adults stayed 5 years and moved back but not always and that is my point I guess. We can't separate them so we have to treat them all equally. French kid 15 generations in Canada to moved to Lebanon for a girl and 1980s wealthy immigrant who renews their passport only in case of trouble and looks down on Canada as a cold and cultureless.

Given the information I have at the moment, I can continue to support the Canadian practice of bringing our citizens home from global trouble spots.

This is consistent with my view that you don't cancel what are fundamentally good policies simply because some people out there are cheats, frauds and yes, parasites.

[savevp]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yeah it was too inflammatory but I do think it's true Lebanese or Chinese dual citizens are not considered as Canadian as white Canadians who are the same. Now some of this is true.

In my experience, there is more resentment toward Canadians who jump ship to the US than those Canadians of convenience in farther flung lands that we never see. It feels like a betrayal or selling-out.

Though this resentment probably doesn't apply much to Canadian citizens living in countries we have cultural affinity toward like Australia, NZ, or the UK. Or perhaps France.

It's worth noting that most of the Western world applies citizenship by blood rather than land of birth. It seems to be a practice largely confined to the Americas. So if Rafik from Beirut spent a year in Melbourne and had a kid before flying home, Australia isn't evacuating that kid.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by savevp

In my experience, there is more resentment toward Canadians who jump ship to the US than those Canadians of convenience in farther flung lands that we never see. It feels like a betrayal or selling-out.

Though this resentment probably doesn't apply much to Canadian citizens living in countries we have cultural affinity toward like Australia, NZ, or the UK. Or perhaps France.

It's worth noting that most of the Western world applies citizenship by blood rather than land of birth. It seems to be a practice largely confined to the Americas. So if Rafik from Beirut spent a year in Melbourne and had a kid before flying home, Australia isn't evacuating that kid.

Most major western countries don't really apply jus sanguinis though, but use a modified approach to jus soli that simply isn't as automatic as what Canada and the US do.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Wigs

If you call controlling everything that goes into and out of a cage, including humans fairly generous. Gazans have been cut off from the rest of Palestinians for 17 years, not to mention the rest of the world!

Israel cut off water and electricity to Gaza with the flip of a switch.

Don't act like Gaza had autonomy. Autonomy within a cage is not the same thing. Israel denies Palestinians of basic human rights and controls near every aspect of daily life, even from "outside the walls" that failed miserably and gave Israelis a false sense of security.

Many Gaza residents cannot even get travel permits to visit friends and family in the West Bank, let alone leave 140 sq miles.

Many Gaza residents are refused Israeli work permits even though they have skills that Israel needs and can make a lot more money outside the walls of Gaza

They have no airport (blown up by Israel in 2001), no seaport. Israel dictates how far they can fish or use their boat in the Mediterranean.

All Palestinians, if they get travel permits/visas have to go all the way to Jordan just to fly.

Was it foolish to elect Hamas, indeed. They were listed as "Change and Reform" party on the ballot and not Hamas or terrorist organization. Once Hamas got control they strong armed Fatah/Palestinian Authority out of Gaza entirely.

By all accounts that was not the outcome the Israelis were looking for. They withdrew the troops and settlements, left the infrastructure, didn’t interfere with the border crossing with Egypt. Gaza was given the opportunity to be a non-violent neighbor of Israel. Instead they elected Hamas, which has spent 20 years building tunnels, bombs, rockets, and plotting the murder of innocent civilians.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I'll be blunter. Most Canadians living in Canada are degenerates who contribute nothing positive to the country so I have no problem spending a few $million to evacuate anyone with a Canadian passport. Many who are brand ambassadors abroad for Canada. A Canadian is a Canadian.

You’re not being blunter, you’re being stupider.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by savevp

In my experience, there is more resentment toward Canadians who jump ship to the US than those Canadians of convenience in farther flung lands that we never see. It feels like a betrayal or selling-out.

Though this resentment probably doesn't apply much to Canadian citizens living in countries we have cultural affinity toward like Australia, NZ, or the UK. Or perhaps France.

It's worth noting that most of the Western world applies citizenship by blood rather than land of birth. It seems to be a practice largely confined to the Americas. So if Rafik from Beirut spent a year in Melbourne and had a kid before flying home, Australia isn't evacuating that kid.

You’re talking two different things.

Very few Americans or Australians “immigrate” to Canada and obtain citizenship only to return to their original country. It’s the ones who live in unstable countries who do that, only to return home when the situation seems more stable. And of course they expect Canada to bail them out years after they’ve left our shores.

[WarrenC12]

India: Murders Canadian citizen on Canadian soil

PP: It's Trudeau's fault that India-Canada relations have soured

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/poil...voys-1.6613206

Is there anything he won't blame Trudeau for?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Is there anything he won't blame Trudeau for?

No.

And it's working for him isn't it.

JT is a lightning rod. JT naturally is a polarizer of peoples opinions. JT makes the perfect scapegoat.

People are tired of JT and his antics. People want change. It makes sense to throw everything at JT, including the kitchen sink to see what sticks.

If the Liberal Party wants to avoid the upcoming train wreck, they need to replace JT. Now............

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

No.

And it's working for him isn't it.

JT is a lightning rod. JT naturally is a polarizer of peoples opinions. JT makes the perfect scapegoat.

So it's ok as long as it works? I thought you were a little less cynical.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

India: Murders Canadian citizen on Canadian soil

PP: It's Trudeau's fault that India-Canada relations have soured

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/poil...voys-1.6613206

Is there anything he won't blame Trudeau for?

Has he blamed his eyesight on Trudeau yet?

JT is a polarizer of people's opinions? Sure.

Certainly, PPP is a polarizer of people's opinions.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

So it's ok as long as it works? I thought you were a little less cynical.

The older I get, the more cynical I become.

Do I think it's right to blame everything on JT? No, but there is enough that you can blame him about without resorting to hyperbole.

Regardless, it is a political strategy that is paying off in spades. It's only working well because the public has tired of JT and his governing style. He is cloying, pandering, pious and sanctimonious. People want a change.

JT has to go.

[casper]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

India: Murders Canadian citizen on Canadian soil

PP: It's Trudeau's fault that India-Canada relations have soured

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/poil...voys-1.6613206

Is there anything he won't blame Trudeau for?

Exactly how does he expect Canada to have a professional productive relationship with a country that sends assassins to our soil to kill Canadian citizens.

PP simply shows poor judgment.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Given the information I have at the moment, I can continue to support the Canadian practice of bringing our citizens home from global trouble spots.

This is consistent with my view that you don't cancel what are fundamentally good policies simply because some people out there are cheats, frauds and yes, parasites.

I would agree with that.

I think the principle should be if travel can be arranged using commercial means there is little value for Canada to bring in its own resources. When that is not the case then we do.

The last time there an evacuation of Canadians out of Lebanon the conservatives were in power and chose not to charge anyone. Honestly I am ok with that as well.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

White House spokeswoman Karine Jean-Pierre is asked a clear question about anti-semitism, and answers by going on about islamophobia and Arab-Americans, then remembers what the question was about and slips "and Jews" into there.

I don't know what is going on in her mind but the politics around Islam in the US are complicated. It is not just about Muslim immigrants. A portion of West African slaves were Muslim and there are ties going far back between black political movements and Islam which seems to survive to this day with BLM. I would guess that a lot of black Americans today identify with Islam to some degree or are Muslim even if they didn't just inherit the religion in a straightforward way.

Then on top of that you've got the George W. Bush era excesses which tended to push progressives to be not just anti-war but also pro-Muslim. There's an idea generally that Muslims are a victim group. I am not sure this applies to the Saudis or Supreme Leader of Iran.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by whatnext

You’re talking two different things.

Very few Americans or Australians “immigrate” to Canada and obtain citizenship only to return to their original country. It’s the ones who live in unstable countries who do that, only to return home when the situation seems more stable. And of course they expect Canada to bail them out years after they’ve left our shores.

I mean yes but only because those countries are more stable so I'm not sure the point. It doesn't make those better or worse people. And I stand by the claim that might sound stupid to you that living in Canada doesn't make you automatically not a citizen of convenience.

[someone123]

I think Canada should be liberal about giving out temporary residency and open or closed work permits when it makes sense but more conservative about giving out PR or citizenship. And there's nothing wrong with assigning different rights to the different classes.

As far as the evacuation issue goes the rule could be that you have to register ahead of time and if you're not a resident of Canada you have to pay a fee; it would be like an opt-in insurance program. The fee would be much smaller than the support costs as the vast majority of Canadians never need those services. Overall I think it is a somewhat overblown issue, though it could become a bigger issue if there are more major world events and wars.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think Canada should be liberal about giving out temporary residency and open or closed work permits when it makes sense but more conservative about giving out PR or citizenship. And there's nothing wrong with assigning different rights to the different classes.

As far as the evacuation issue goes the rule could be that you have to register ahead of time and if you're not a resident of Canada you have to pay a fee; it would be like an opt-in insurance program. The fee would be much smaller than the support costs as the vast majority of Canadians never need those services. Overall I think it is a somewhat overblown issue, though it could become a bigger issue if there are more major world events and wars.

For sure agree with this but once we give out the passport we need to stand by them. There are many who would love to come here temporarily with less "rights" and would fulfill our need for labour better than fake students. Nothing against these fake students they are following the rules we set out.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think Canada should be liberal about giving out temporary residency and open or closed work permits when it makes sense but more conservative about giving out PR or citizenship. And there's nothing wrong with assigning different rights to the different classes.

As far as the evacuation issue goes the rule could be that you have to register ahead of time and if you're not a resident of Canada you have to pay a fee; it would be like an opt-in insurance program. The fee would be much smaller than the support costs as the vast majority of Canadians never need those services. Overall I think it is a somewhat overblown issue, though it could become a bigger issue if there are more major world events and wars.

Yours are very sensible suggestions.

Comments from our former ambassador to Lebanon:

...Louis de Lorimier, Canada's ambassador to Lebanon during the 2006 evacuation, said the former Conservative government decided to wave all of the costs associated with the rescue.

The government might want to rethink paying for these emergency departures, given Canadians in Lebanon have been told for days that it's time to leave, he said.

"The question is, should Canada foot the bill for that completely as it did before?" de Lorimier told CBC News.

"In 2006, there was no advance notice of anything. But now the Beirut airport is open. There are flights to European capitals. The situation is different this time around."

In that 2006 conflict, Israel bombed the Beirut airport the day after a Hezbollah raid and declared its northern neighbour's airspace closed.

That forced the Canadian government to get people out on boats because the airport was largely inoperable and land routes were considered too dangerous, de Lorimier said.

Today, however, multiple routes operated by Royal Jordanian Airlines, Middle East Airlines and Turkish Airlines are still connecting Beirut to global hubs like Instabul, Paris and Frankfurt...(bold mine)

[thurmas]

Tom Emmer just withdrew from having his name put forward for a vote to be speaker of the house just hours after getting the most votes to be gop nominee. Apparently over 24 maga Republicans refuse to support him. With the gop mess their congress is true bannana republic clown show with another government shutdown just a few weeks away. I don't think anyone can win over the entire gop caucus they likely should just split already.