HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #61  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 2:59 PM
flipv's Avatar
flipv flipv is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
While I can understand the frustration to some degree, I'd venture a guess that most Canadians living in the "little cities" as you call them, especially on SSP, have more experience with Toronto (and its nightlife, culture, etc.) than vice-versa.

So...
Sigh.. I thought you calmed yourself from these passive-aggressive comments, but you were probably on a short vacation.

Let me help your reasoning. When I go to Montreal (at least once or twice a year) I barely leave the old town/downtown area. Am I going to judge Montreal's nightlife based on my experience? No, because I'm going to laugh and say this is the shittiest nightlife in the country.

Similarly, Canadians visiting Toronto rarely venture out of the inner downtown core. There is barely anything to do there and I'll readily admit that. Toronto's nightlife is west of downtown these days. Queen West, Parkdale, Liberty Village (oddly enough) Ossington.. Though Chinatown has really cool Chinese-nightlife (all those restaurants seem to have clubs in their basement). Tourists wouldn't know that. It's the same when I go anywhere... Paris seemed quiet to me (I know this isn't true), and when I lived in Madrid, well the touristy areas were quiet, but the nightlife was the most intense I ever experienced and that is because I actually lived there.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #62  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 3:05 PM
Stryker Stryker is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipv View Post
The cost of living is significantly higher - it's not all about housing. Food, alcohol, transit, cabs, etc - it's all higher.
Bringing this back to topic.

Sorta sorta not.

Food is cheaper, housing is directly comparable. Yes transit is more expensive however it is also far more effective.

I'd far rather live on minimum wage in Toronto than in st john's.

that being said you get far less freedoms being middle income.

You can create a business etc with greater ease in the mid sized cities in canada.

In toronto a average person lives like a poor person.

In st john's a middle class person lives like a rich person in toronto.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #63  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 3:06 PM
Stryker Stryker is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by niwell View Post
On average sure, but when a sample size is large enough averages don't matter quite as much.
One of us has more knowledge on statistics than the other. In this case I'm not sure which in this case.

the Average means less in a smaller sample because the odds are greater that it is a fluke.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #64  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 3:06 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 67,773
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipv View Post
Sigh.. I thought you calmed yourself from these passive-aggressive comments, but you were probably on a short vacation.

Let me help your reasoning. When I go to Montreal (at least once or twice a year) I barely leave the old town/downtown area. Am I going to judge Montreal's nightlife based on my experience? No, because I'm going to laugh and say this is the shittiest nightlife in the country.

Similarly, Canadians visiting Toronto rarely venture out of the inner downtown core. There is barely anything to do there and I'll readily admit that. Toronto's nightlife is west of downtown these days. Queen West, Parkdale, Liberty Village (oddly enough) Ossington.. Though Chinatown has really cool Chinese-nightlife (all those restaurants seem to have clubs in their basement). Tourists wouldn't know that. It's the same when I go anywhere... Paris seemed quiet to me (I know this isn't true), and when I lived in Madrid, well the touristy areas were quiet, but the nightlife was the most intense I ever experienced and that is because I actually lived there.
You make some good points but making it personal about me detracts from them as usual.

I agree with much of what you said but on the other hand it's still true that people from Halifax, Winnipeg, Sudbury, etc. will know Toronto better than most Torontonians will know those cities better in return.
__________________
Amber alerts welcome at any time
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #65  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 3:07 PM
Gerrard Gerrard is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,102
Um, being 24 hours isn't all about when you can score a beer (even though that's possible). It's about transit, getting a meal, shopping even people working. It's conveniences at all times of the day and night.

Stryker is obviously generalizing. He can't help it. But generally even the most recent residents of Toronto know where to go if they want this or that at any time. So not sure why he's being obtuse unless he never left his apartment.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #66  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 3:10 PM
Stryker Stryker is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipv View Post

Similarly, Canadians visiting Toronto rarely venture out of the inner downtown core. There is barely anything to do there and I'll readily admit that. Toronto's nightlife is west of downtown these days. Queen West, Parkdale, Liberty Village (oddly enough) Ossington.. Though Chinatown has really cool Chinese-nightlife (all those restaurants seem to have clubs in their basement). Tourists wouldn't know that.
Again this is a torontonians viewpoint, that we "visit" toronto and base our assumptions on that.

The reality is our short term experiences were something like this while living there full time.


**** me: hey cousin take me everywhere you know *****

**** me: hey co worker where can we go ********

***** me: Wait your honestly suggesting we go into a jack astors/Bier market *****
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #67  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 3:11 PM
niwell's Avatar
niwell niwell is offline
sick transit, gloria
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Roncesvalles, Toronto
Posts: 11,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stryker View Post
One of us has more knowledge on statistics than the other. In this case I'm not sure which in this case.

the Average means less in a smaller sample because the odds are greater that it is a fluke.
Depends on how you think about it, and of course the distribution. I probably phrased it wrong.

When a sample size is larger (i.e. Toronto) you can still have significant populations that do not represent the average.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #68  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 3:12 PM
flipv's Avatar
flipv flipv is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
You make some good points but making it personal about me detracts from them as usual.

I agree with much of what you said but on the other hand it's still true that people from Halifax, Winnipeg, Sudbury, etc. will know Toronto better than most Torontonians will know those cities better in return.
When you speak like an authority on all things Ontario/Toronto then yes we make it personal.

I could make all kinds of passive-aggressive comments about Quebec and Montreal, but I'd rather not.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #69  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 3:13 PM
Stryker Stryker is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerrard View Post
Stryker is obviously generalizing. He can't help it. But generally even the most recent residents of Toronto know where to go if they want this or that at any time. So not sure why he's being obtuse unless he never left his apartment.
Of course it's a generalization it's the whole dam point, I have little interest in the personal lives of the people in the thread, the thread is about the lifestyles people expect when living in a specific city.

I stated long ago that St john's does chronologically stay up late and that was far from the point of the thread. Toronto obviously offers more potential options, and by going to a second city/18 city/ another provincial capital people are being more realistic in their choices.

Again when you say people in toronto happen to know, it's not the same as when people actually do.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #70  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 3:13 PM
flipv's Avatar
flipv flipv is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stryker View Post
Again this is a torontonians viewpoint, that we "visit" toronto and base our assumptions on that.

The reality is our short term experiences were something like this/


**** me: hey cousin take me everywhere you know *****

**** me: hey co worker where can we go ********

***** me: Wait your honestly suggesting we go into a jack astors/Bier market *****
You just need new friends/relatives! I'm sure I can find homebodies in St. John's as well - doesn't mean the whole city is like that!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #71  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 3:17 PM
Gerrard Gerrard is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
You make some good points but making it personal about me detracts from them as usual.

I agree with much of what you said but on the other hand it's still true that people from Halifax, Winnipeg, Sudbury, etc. will know Toronto better than most Torontonians will know those cities better in return.

it's still true that people from Halifax, Winnipeg, Sudbury, etc. will THINK THEY know Toronto better than most Torontonians will know those cities better in return.

I fixed that for you.

Here's the deal, Toronto is the big cheese. People pay attention to it, it doesn't mean they know it. They just know more about it. It certainly doesn't mean they have more experience of it than Torontonians do of other places. Torontonians pay attention to their city more because well maybe it's a character defect or maybe they just have better things than trying to figure out the zeitgeist of [insert Canadian city name here].

I mean honestly do you think people from those places (or any other place) know Quebec more than Quebec knows about them or do you think maybe they think they know more based on whatever media outlet they pay attention to?

I think if all some Canadians do is automatically think TORONTO grrrr TORONTO grrrr TORONTO as a few posters on this forum do, it says more about them (and their need for a nice calming anti-axiety drug) than it does about Toronto. Torontonians don't obsess about their city nearly as much as other Canadians (at least here) do.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #72  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 3:19 PM
Stryker Stryker is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
You make some good points but making it personal about me detracts from them as usual.

I agree with much of what you said but on the other hand it's still true that people from Halifax, Winnipeg, Sudbury, etc. will know Toronto better than most Torontonians will know those cities better in return.
X2


I pretty sure Im a person that reflexively tell you when your being snobbish or elitist and this is far from it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #73  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 3:20 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is online now
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 67,773
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipv View Post
When you speak like an authority on all things Ontario/Toronto then yes we make it personal..
Hmm, I've lived more years of my life in Ontario than in any other province. I basically grew up there and did most of my schooling there, including close enough to Toronto in order to be in its economic, media, cultural and psyschological orbit. I also have been there scores of times and go regularly on business and to visit friends and family. I have approximately three times more family members in Ontario than I have in Quebec and all of my immediate family members and my wife's live in Ontario and all of our siblings are married to anglo or non-francophone Ontarians. If you wanna make things personal, it helps to know stuff about the person!

Quote:
Originally Posted by flipv View Post
I could make all kinds of passive-aggressive comments about Quebec and Montreal, but I'd rather not.
Go right ahead. This is an open discussion forum after all.
__________________
Amber alerts welcome at any time
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #74  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 3:24 PM
Gerrard Gerrard is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,102
I should add though, I don't think Toronto is a party town. And that's fine. There's always that option but no one really says: let's go to Toronto and rock out. I don't even think Torontonians say that. But despite its reputation I don't find Montreal nightlife that fun either, just less self conscious. And really unless you know people in New York you'll line up at the same douchey places you can find in any alpha city with the same boring people on their phones all night, instagramming how much fun they're supposed to be having.

New Orleans is probably the only place I really have fun. It's not self conscious, everyone is drunk and smoking, the bars are dives and no one is on their phone -they are talking to strangers. It's like the 80s all over again.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #75  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 3:25 PM
Stryker Stryker is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipv View Post
You just need new friends/relatives! I'm sure I can find homebodies in St. John's as well - doesn't mean the whole city is like that!
Lol you have to appreciate I'm the kind of guy that is more likely to party with homeless hobo's than I am with folks having a house party.

Just because I'm autistic doesn't mean I can't pretend to be kinda normal when I have to be. I typically choose to be myself but I don't always have to.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #76  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 3:26 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 23,490
Quote:
Originally Posted by north 42 View Post
I think that too many people who are not from Toronto seem to think they know everything about the city, and try to claim how their little cities is just so much better in so many ways. Sorry, but I don't think anybody's buying this, lol.
Obviously Toronto has nothing going for it. Except for the fact that more people want to live, work and recreate there than any other city in Canada.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #77  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 3:28 PM
Stryker Stryker is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerrard View Post
it's still true that people from Halifax, Winnipeg, Sudbury, etc. will THINK THEY know Toronto better than most Torontonians will know those cities better in return.

I fixed that for you.

Here's the deal, Toronto is the big cheese. People pay attention to it, it doesn't mean they know it. They just know more about it. It certainly doesn't mean they have more experience of it than Torontonians do of other places. Torontonians pay attention to their city more because well maybe it's a character defect or maybe they just have better things than trying to figure out the zeitgeist of [insert Canadian city name here].

I mean honestly do you think people from those places (or any other place) know Quebec more than Quebec knows about them or do you think maybe they think they know more based on whatever media outlet they pay attention to?

I think if all some Canadians do is automatically think TORONTO grrrr TORONTO grrrr TORONTO as a few posters on this forum do, it says more about them (and their need for a nice calming anti-axiety drug) than it does about Toronto. Torontonians don't obsess about their city nearly as much as other Canadians (at least here) do.
grr toronto yeah right, lol all I do is obsess about going back to toronto lol.

I'm literally that guy, that inserts toronto into every other random conversation in real life, just as I insert newfoundland here on ssp.

The idea that people from toronto get it more than someone who has spent siginicant time is the place is a total farce.

No one can know the city in entirety yet I'd argue someone who spent there twenties city hoping is likely to have a far better frame for comparison.

Last edited by Stryker; Nov 19, 2015 at 4:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #78  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 3:37 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,115
These are obviously sort of simplistic categories, but it's fun to think about, so:

Toronto: Any Friday or Saturday evening, pretty much all of Queen West, from University to Parkdale, is lively. The Annex is jumping. Anything on College Street between Spadina and about Ossington will be happening. The Entertainment District, obviously, will be a massive shit show.

In some neighbourhoods, at some times, Toronto feels very 24 hours. That energy isn't spread uniformly across the city (a la Manhattan) but it's definitely present in some areas.

Calgary: 12-hour city when I was growing up there in the 90s, but it's changed a lot. I'd put it in the 18-hour category for sure, but again, only if you're in the right areas. (Beltline/Sunnyside/Stephen Avenue sometimes).

Halifax: Unequivocally 18-hours. There are days and nights in the summer when things come together just right and you can get a sense of what it would be like as a 24-hour city, (i.e., people are out and about until late, not just in one concentrated bar district, but in a variety of neighbourhoods). Right now that's a rare and fleeting thing, but the city's core neighbourhoods are undergoing significant densification and revitalization, so I think it will grow in coming years. (Still isn't likely to become a true 24-hour city to any significant degree, however--at least not in the foreseeable future.)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #79  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 3:37 PM
khabibulin khabibulin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,111
[QUOTE=Taeolas;7241148]I was in Ottawa on a Friday night a couple of weeks ago and I can confirm this. Around 7-8PM on a Friday night, Byward/Rideau Centre were still hopping, but cross the canal into the CBD and you'd wonder if you were in a ghost town.

That's probably because there isn't much residential in the CBD; it's all government and offices, so once 5PM hits, it empties out and there's no reason to stick around. The residential parts around the edges of it have some life at least.(QUOTE]

Elgin Street is pretty busy into the wee hours of the morning. Maybe that's what you mean by the residential parts around the edges.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #80  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2015, 3:46 PM
Taeolas Taeolas is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Fredericton
Posts: 3,963
Las Vegas is the only 24 hour Party city I know personally. Any time of the day or night, the Strip will still be active. (It's dead time in my experience tends to be from 4AM to Noon as people recover from the night before).

For Canada, Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa are all definitely 24 hour cities. 24 hour party cities? No where close. But any hour of the day or night, you can feel the city is still doing SOMETHING. The highways are still busy, people are going, the 24 hour shops will have folk in them, etc...

Going to the opposite end, using Fredericton, as I said earlier, that city is barely 9-5. During its live periods it tends to be busy (for its size), but as soon as 6PM rolls around, those busy streets are empty. At night you can run across streets (or even the highways) with ease, whereas during the day you'd have to wait for signaled crosswalks. Even Freddy's 24H stores are noticeably empty after 9PM or so; there might be 1 or 2 customers at any time in them, along with the overnight workers. Basically, you can feel for certain that the city is asleep/not doing much in the night period.

Moncton, the only other city I have a slight feel for its late night life, is a 12-hour city growing towards 18-hour status. It's Evening life is still there, and it has numerous 24-hour options that do feel somewhat busy. But I've done an all nighter on the weekend at the Casino down there, and after 2-3AM or so, it was very dead. Other times I've been in the city in the early hours (3-5AM), it's obvious the city is asleep or just waking up. The highways have traffic, but not much at all.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:27 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.