Is Hamilton actually Canada's Brooklyn?

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Spring2008

Haven't checked out the city, but Hamilton looks like a nightmare from the QEW highway with heavy industrial lining the entire skyline.

Too many people flying in to Toronto and renting a car to go to Niagara Falls see that on the Skyway Bridge and feel no compulsion to visit. It's understandable.

For those with an interest, though, the Burlington Street exit from the QEW takes you on a 10 km ride on an elevated expressway right through the middle of what was once the heavy industrial heart of Canada, and it's pretty impressive.

If you're into that kind of thing. Most people aren't.

[matthew6]

Originally Posted by rousseau

If you're into that kind of thing. Most people aren't.

I am

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

Hey, World! Stop saying Canadians are like Americans and that our culture is simply American culture wrapped in a maple leaf! Jerks.

...

It's not the world and it's not Americans that asked the question here...

[urbandreamer]

I love stopping at the Hamilton farmer's market on an early Saturday morning. Then go to Detour Coffee in Dundas on the way to K-W.

[SteelTown]

This article I do agree with, don't lose our grittiness.

"Be gritty, be cool:" Is Hamilton really the new Brooklyn?

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/61...new-brooklyn-/

Don't lose your grittiness in the fight for all that gleams, Hamilton.

Those were just a few of the words of advice from Brooklyn Chamber of Commerce president and CEO Carlo Scissura at the Lincoln Alexander Centre Monday evening, where he explored whether Hamilton really is the Brooklyn of Canada.

"Be who you are," he told the crowd at the third annual Ambitious City event. "Be gritty, be cool."

"I haven't spent much time here in Hamilton," Scissura said.

But, "I think you definitely have a lot of Brooklyn in you."

Scissura had never heard of Hamilton until contacted by Hamilton Chamber of Commerce CEO Keanin Loomis. But after spending some time here, he says the city's strong points include its arts scene and its diversity.

The key is to leverage its gems into money being spent here — by residents and tourists alike.

Scissura says the story of Brooklyn's epic growth boils down to three "game changers."

The first is having a downtown that's transit-rich and bustling with private-sector investment. Scissura pointed to the MetroTech Center, a 15-building development with office spaces, a hotel, restaurants and a university.

Second, he pointed to the construction of the Barclays Center, which held its first event in 2012. The arena's arrival meant there was a big place to host events and concerts. This has pumped money into the economy and created jobs. It has also brought entertainment to town, including the Brooklyn Nets NBA team.

Continuing to invest in arts and culture, creating world-class attractions and promoting tourism are among the ways Hamilton can continue to move forward, he said.

For property owners, Scissura advised giving artists cheaper rent for a few years to allow them to get established. To bankers, he suggested lending artists money so they can buy buildings to improve and resell them.

"Get your Toronto neighbours to figure out why Hamilton is so cool," he added.

.....

[esquire]

I love Hamilton, I really do. I'd live there myself in a heartbeat. But that article is nauseating. Please don't utter Hamilton and Brooklyn in the same breath again, though. Learn from Winnipeg's mistake... a hundred odd years ago, some real estate speculator/huckster/booster once described Winnipeg as the "Chicago of the North", and the city has been trying to live it down ever since. A hundred years of failing to live up to expectations. Don't let this happen to you.

[SkydivePilot]

Please don't compare Hamilton to Buffalo, NY tough.

Buffalo =

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Habanero

I guess Kensington is Calgary's Brooklyn

That's a really bizarre reference. What on earth does Calgary have to do with Kensington? Kensington Market is the anti-Calgary in just about every way. Or do people in Calgary really like it, or something?

Remove "Calgary," though, and your sentence might make sense. More sense than Hamilton, anyway. Anthony Bourdain actually did say that Kensington felt like Brooklyn in one of those travelling shows he did. That would maybe be just in terms of vibe, though, as the neighbourhood itself doesn't look like Brooklyn's built landscape.

Though I can't actually think of another neighbourhood in North America quite like Kensington Market. It's closest analogue is Camden Market in London, though obviously it doesn't hold a candle to that amazing district, and would only be a much smaller brother to it.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Spectator

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/61...new-brooklyn-/

Don't lose your grittiness in the fight for all that gleams, Hamilton.

Those were just a few of the words of advice from Brooklyn Chamber of Commerce president and CEO Carlo Scissura at the Lincoln Alexander Centre Monday evening, where he explored whether Hamilton really is the Brooklyn of Canada.

"Be who you are," he told the crowd at the third annual Ambitious City event. "Be gritty, be cool."

"I haven't spent much time here in Hamilton," Scissura said.

But, "I think you definitely have a lot of Brooklyn in you."

Scissura had never heard of Hamilton until contacted by Hamilton Chamber of Commerce CEO Keanin Loomis. But after spending some time here, he says the city's strong points include its arts scene and its diversity.

The key is to leverage its gems into money being spent here — by residents and tourists alike.

Scissura says the story of Brooklyn's epic growth boils down to three "game changers."

The first is having a downtown that's transit-rich and bustling with private-sector investment. Scissura pointed to the MetroTech Center, a 15-building development with office spaces, a hotel, restaurants and a university.

Second, he pointed to the construction of the Barclays Center, which held its first event in 2012. The arena's arrival meant there was a big place to host events and concerts. This has pumped money into the economy and created jobs. It has also brought entertainment to town, including the Brooklyn Nets NBA team.

Continuing to invest in arts and culture, creating world-class attractions and promoting tourism are among the ways Hamilton can continue to move forward, he said.

For property owners, Scissura advised giving artists cheaper rent for a few years to allow them to get established. To bankers, he suggested lending artists money so they can buy buildings to improve and resell them.

"Get your Toronto neighbours to figure out why Hamilton is so cool," he added.

.....

The first bolded part is what he really meant, the second is a half-embarrassed concession to the idea being discussed here.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by esquire

I love Hamilton, I really do. I'd live there myself in a heartbeat. But that article is nauseating. Please don't utter Hamilton and Brooklyn in the same breath again, though. Learn from Winnipeg's mistake... a hundred odd years ago, some real estate speculator/huckster/booster once described Winnipeg as the "Chicago of the North", and the city has been trying to live it down ever since. A hundred years of failing to live up to expectations. Don't let this happen to you.

Yeah, so true.

And these ones:
Toronto is New York run by the Swiss.
Montreal is the Paris of North America.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by rousseau

That's a really bizarre reference. What on earth does Calgary have to do with Kensington?

Kensington is a neighbourhood in Calgary, across the river from DT. It's an older area that has gone through massize gentrification the past 20 years.

Remember, outside of Southern Ontario, the world does not revolve around Toronto ...


Avenue Magazine

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Yeah, so true.

And these ones:
Toronto is New York run by the Swiss.
Montreal is the Paris of North America.

What is the who's what. No, that what is truly who's what. But that what does not replace who's what with what and what could never replace the who's what. But for this moment, assume that if you dropped the what from who and put in the what for who's what, you'd get a fair what of what as the new who's what. Who's what is what and what is what the who's what would be the what's what.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by shreddog

Kensington is a neighbourhood in Calgary, across the river from DT. It's an older area that has gone through massize gentrification the past 20 years.

Remember, outside of Southern Ontario, the world does not revolve around Toronto ...


Avenue Magazine

Ah, I see. Never heard of it. But the context was a (ridiculous) story about Hamilton's similarity to Brooklyn, and Kensington Market in Toronto is pretty famous among urban aficionados in Canada, hence the confusion.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by esquire

I love Hamilton, I really do. I'd live there myself in a heartbeat.

Interesting. May I ask what appeals to you about Hamilton?

I'm a Hamilton native, and I used to live in Winnipeg. Actually, I'm quite certain I blathered at length on this forum before to a Winnipegger musing about what it might be like to live in Hamilton. I think the key difference is that Winnipeg is a much larger and very self-contained city compared to Hamilton, which certainly has its own identity but still feels much smaller than Winnipeg and very peripheral to the burning sun that is the GTA.

Just curious.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Interesting. May I ask what appeals to you about Hamilton?

I'm a Hamilton native, and I used to live in Winnipeg. Actually, I'm quite certain I blathered at length on this forum before to a Winnipegger musing about what it might be like to live in Hamilton. I think the key difference is that Winnipeg is a much larger and very self-contained city compared to Hamilton, which certainly has its own identity but still feels much smaller than Winnipeg and very peripheral to the burning sun that is the GTA.

Just curious.

I'll preface this by saying that my experience with Hamilton is quite limited in that I've gone there on a couple of day trips and passed through a few times en route to St. Catharines/Niagara. But I was impressed with what I saw. It reminds me a lot of Winnipeg in terms of overall scale, and it's great that it maintains its clear identity in spite of being so close to the GTA. Being from Winnipeg, I felt very much at home there.

To me, the biggest factor in terms of Hamilton's appeal is its connectedness and proximity to other centres. As much as I love Winnipeg, the isolation relative to other centres is a bit much... it feels a bit like living on a remote island at times. The nearest major centre is Minneapolis, and that's a 7 hour drive away. Even flights out of Winnipeg are long and expensive... there are no $99 one way Porter specials to major cities. It's hard not to envy Hamilton for being under an hour away from so many things (Toronto, Buffalo, Niagara Falls, KWC, Pearson Airport). Hamilton on its own is great, but there is so much nearby... I'd love to have that kind of access to other places.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'll preface this by saying that my experience with Hamilton is quite limited in that I've gone there on a couple of day trips and passed through a few times en route to St. Catharines/Niagara. But I was impressed with what I saw. It reminds me a lot of Winnipeg in terms of overall scale, and it's great that it maintains its clear identity in spite of being so close to the GTA. Being from Winnipeg, I felt very much at home there.

To me, the biggest factor in terms of Hamilton's appeal is its connectedness and proximity to other centres. As much as I love Winnipeg, the isolation relative to other centres is a bit much... it feels a bit like living on a remote island at times. The nearest major centre is Minneapolis, and that's a 7 hour drive away. Even flights out of Winnipeg are long and expensive... there are no $99 one way Porter specials to major cities. It's hard not to envy Hamilton for being under an hour away from so many things (Toronto, Buffalo, Niagara Falls, KWC, Pearson Airport). Hamilton on its own is great, but there is so much nearby... I'd love to have that kind of access to other places.

That echoes my own preferences as well, even if I don't live in Hamilton anymore (still on the periphery of the GTA, though). I really appreciated my six-year stint in Winnipeg and have fond memories of it, but there's something to be said for being part of what is effectively the fourth largest urban conglomeration in North America (not including Mexico).

Thing is, though, I'd quibble with your take on the similarity in scales. To me, Winnipeg feels like a 730,000-strong CMA with its epicentre at Portage and Main, but Hamilton doesn't feel at all like a centralized CMA of 721,000. Instead, Hamilton is more multi-nodal, and the downtown itself doesn't really feel like the centre of the orbit. Indeed, Burlington may be included in Hamilton's CMA, but you'd get be greeted with everything from quizzical looks to outright denial if you ever suggested to people there that they "live in Hamilton."

The multi-nodal aspect is interesting in itself, though, as it does really contrast with the more monolithic sense you get in Winnipeg as a whole.

[esquire]

^ Yes, I agree in that respect. Portage and Main is really the centre of the entire Winnipeg region's orbit. While it's possible to live here without setting foot in downtown Winnipeg, you'd have to make a conscious choice to do that while I get the impression that in the Burlington or Stoney Creek type areas surrounding Hamilton, they are essentially self-contained areas.

But that said, downtown Hamilton has more or less all of the kinds of things that downtown Winnipeg has. Perhaps a bit less just given that it's more spread out through the entire Hamilton region, but by and large they feel quite similar to me.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by esquire

But that said, downtown Hamilton has more or less all of the kinds of things that downtown Winnipeg has. Perhaps a bit less just given that it's more spread out through the entire Hamilton region, but by and large they feel quite similar to me.

Not being argumentative here, just pointing out some differences for interest's sake and because I know both cities.

Hamilton has very few hotel rooms for a CMA its size, so there is never much foreign influx or circulation downtown save for specific events like the art crawl. Winnipeg is a destination for all of Manitoba, but Hamilton is not a destination for anyone.

Winnipeg downtown also has lots of draws like the Museum for Human Rights, other major museums, the Forks, Jets games, U of Winnipeg, the legislature, the Royal Winnipeg Ballet, the Winnipeg Art Gallery, the baseball stadium, and a fairly thriving theatre and music scene, etc. Winnipeg's cultural and sporting offerings are vast by comparison with what little there is to be had in downtown Hamilton (though this is made up for by the spectacular cornucopia just down the road in Toronto).

Winnipeg's downtown, if you arbitrarily define it as more or less bounded by the Red River, the Assiniboine, Memorial Blvd, Hargrave/Princess and Logan/Disraeli Freeway is a lot bigger than Hamilton's downtown, which is essentially an area centred around King and Main between Bay and Wellington, and James Street from St. Joseph's Hospital in the south to Barton Street in the North.

I'd say that Winnipeg has big ticket items befitting its role as a regional capital, while Hamilton is better characterized as a much smaller-feeling city that specializes in funky little nooks and crannies in and around downtown.

That's my spiel on the subject, anyway.

[esquire]

I don't disagree that downtown Winnipeg is bigger and offers more things... no doubt there. The CMHR obviously has no Hamilton parallel and downtown Winnipeg is physically bigger.

I do agree that downtown Winnipeg is set up as a regional capital, and of course there are many things that exist here out of sheer necessity. The arts scene reflects the fact that there is no bigger, glitzier alternative for arts and culture an hour up the road. But by and large they feel quite similar to me, it's not like going to Chicago or Montreal where it feels like there is more to the downtown area than in Winnipeg by orders of magnitude.

[hipster duck]

Rousseau,

In your opinion, what role does Hamilton play in the GTA apart from being just another undifferentiated node? I have quite a bit of experience with Hamilton, and it feels like a larger version of Oshawa - or just a bigger version of a post-industrial Ontario manufacturing town with some added services and amenities to cater to a larger population. For a city of 700k, whose peer cities population-wise include Winnipeg and Quebec City, that is not a very flattering description.

I actually think one of the biggest drawbacks of the GTA is that there are very few interesting places outside of the City of Toronto. The GTA is multi-nodal, to be sure, but few of those nodes hold any appeal to me. This is not necessarily the case for all major cities. For example, the Bay Area is dominated by San Francisco, but Berkeley and Oakland* have very distinct urban identities and add to the flavour of the region as a whole.

*Ironic, because Gertrude Stein famously said that Oakland has no "there there", but that was an Oakland before black people.