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  #1  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 7:42 PM
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Climate Change and Canada

I think this is a good idea for a separate thread. Plenty of discussion around this subject.
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  #2  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 9:27 PM
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There used to be an environment thread I created that was a catch all for climate change, oil sands and whatever other topics. I'm not entirely sure but it may have morphed into the Stephen Harper BS thread and then into the Election thread. This might be a better catch all if it were called Climate Change Etc. or simply Environment.

In any case let's get the Migs denial fest rolling!
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  #3  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 9:36 PM
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After all the reading I have done on the subject, it seems Canada is one of the best places to be on the planet, more moisture, more warmth, longer growing season, and all that... If things go badly for the Earth, and the climate spirals out of control, we might find ourselves here in Canada under increasingly severe attempts by millions of environmental refugees from all over the world to immigrate whether we like it or not. But I'd rather things not get that bad...
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  #4  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 9:42 PM
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Originally Posted by koops65 View Post
After all the reading I have done on the subject, it seems Canada is one of the best places to be on the planet, more moisture, more warmth, longer growing season, and all that... If things go badly for the Earth, and the climate spirals out of control, we might find ourselves here in Canada under increasingly severe attempts by millions of environmental refugees from all over the world to immigrate whether we like it or not. But I'd rather things not get that bad...
I've considered this as well. Closer to home I'm pretty sure Calgary will one day see a massive influx of refugees in the event of a catastrophic earthquake and tsunami hitting Vancouver and the Pacific NW.
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Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 9:45 PM
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In preparation for the Climate Change Deniers here are some per-prepared arguments.






This one might actually be Migs.

Last edited by O-tacular; Nov 21, 2015 at 6:22 PM.
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  #6  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 10:03 PM
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I'm sorry but how is the science for anthropogenic climate change not up for debate when literally all other scientific fields are? How can anyone have a civil debate when one side automatically gets dismissed by the other and belittled simply for questioning? Think critically guys. Especially of your own beliefs. Wait don't listen to me I'm just one of those tin foil hat wearers.
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  #7  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by O-tacular View Post
I've considered this as well. Closer to home I'm pretty sure Calgary will one day see a massive influx of refugees in the event of a catastrophic earthquake and tsunami hitting Vancouver and the Pacific NW.
FYI, the (inevitable) next Cascadia Great One won't have been caused by greenhouse gases...
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  #8  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optimusREIM View Post
I'm sorry but how is the science for anthropogenic climate change not up for debate when literally all other scientific fields are? How can anyone have a civil debate when one side automatically gets dismissed by the other and belittled simply for questioning? Think critically guys. Especially of your own beliefs. Wait don't listen to me I'm just one of those tin foil hat wearers.
It's up for debate in the same sense that the law of gravity is up for debate. There's debate about the little details but not the overall theme. Anthropogenic climate change is pretty much as close to a scientific fact as you can get.

But feel free to deliver any sort of evidence showing anthropogenic climate change is not occurring, as long as that evidence hasn't been thoroughly debunked by climate scientists already. If you're going to trot out the same tired arguments, then prepare to be dismissed.
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  #9  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optimusREIM View Post
I'm sorry but how is the science for anthropogenic climate change not up for debate when literally all other scientific fields are? How can anyone have a civil debate when one side automatically gets dismissed by the other and belittled simply for questioning? Think critically guys. Especially of your own beliefs. Wait don't listen to me I'm just one of those tin foil hat wearers.
Hm, there are some things that I don't see much skepticism about (classical mechanics) because much of the caveats to it are given their own theories (general relativity, special relativity) for which they can make predictions. But gosh darn it, that there is a screw used to bolt a computer on a rocket does not mean that that rocket cannot get into space. When you can get your eyes off the non sequitur, you can start working on causal relationships. And when researchers seeking to refute are being paid to editorialise and minimise the models with meal-mouthy equivocation and obfuscation by those who are trying their hardest to protect their assets but care not a whit to anyone else's, we have to admit to ourselves that we may be looking at the wrong voices for looking towards building alternate theories.
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  #10  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 10:33 PM
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FYI, the (inevitable) next Cascadia Great One won't have been caused by greenhouse gases...
I never said it would. Simply something unrelated that I've thought about.

In the event that this happens I think there will be more refugees from all coastlines of the world flooding our borders though:

https://news.vice.com/article/if-thi...d-rise-10-feet
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  #11  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 10:39 PM
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It's up for debate in the same sense that the law of gravity is up for debate. There's debate about the little details but not the overall theme. Anthropogenic climate change is pretty much as close to a scientific fact as you can get.

But feel free to deliver any sort of evidence showing anthropogenic climate change is not occurring, as long as that evidence hasn't been thoroughly debunked by climate scientists already. If you're going to trot out the same tired arguments, then prepare to be dismissed.
Exactly! See this cartoon:

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  #12  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 10:42 PM
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I don't know how well off Calgary will be in 50 years as the glaciers that provide our drinking water are melting very quickly. Calgary (and the prairies in general) will be in pretty bad shape if our rivers start to dry up every summer.
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  #13  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Xelebes View Post
Hm, there are some things that I don't see much skepticism about (classical mechanics) because much of the caveats to it are given their own theories (general relativity, special relativity) for which they can make predictions. But gosh darn it, that there is a screw used to bolt a computer on a rocket does not mean that that rocket cannot get into space. When you can get your eyes off the non sequitur, you can start working on causal relationships. And when researchers seeking to refute are being paid to editorialise and minimise the models with meal-mouthy equivocation and obfuscation by those who are trying their hardest to protect their assets but care not a whit to anyone else's, we have to admit to ourselves that we may be looking at the wrong voices for looking towards building alternate theories.
Come on the Koch brothers are legit! What more impartial, scientifically minded individuals could you ask for? They are the voice of reason!



A good read for anyone interested in the history of their little empire:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...mpire-20140924
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  #14  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 10:47 PM
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I don't know how well off Calgary will be in 50 years as the glaciers that provide our drinking water are melting very quickly. Calgary (and the prairies in general) will be in pretty bad shape if our rivers start to dry up every summer.

Maybe they can build water pipelines?
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  #15  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 10:49 PM
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Maybe they can build water pipelines?
That's what the Americans are going to be wanting to do very soon.
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  #16  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 10:52 PM
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Climate Change skeptics:

Every time you trot out an argument questioning anthropogenic climate change I want you to imagine this man laughing.



Literally the entire 'movement' of climate change skeptics are hack scientists and shills for the Koch brothers. This phenomenon has been studied for decades and has always been considered a fact until the Koch suckers began their campaign of misinformation within the last couple decades. It's exactly the same as when tobacco companies tried refuting the fact that their products caused cancer.

Last edited by O-tacular; Nov 13, 2015 at 2:19 AM.
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  #17  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 10:53 PM
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That's what the Americans are going to be wanting to do very soon.
Well they have been saying that water will become the oil of the future for a long time now. Just look at Nestle in BC.
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  #18  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 10:54 PM
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Canada can't do anything about it.

The amount of pollution we contribute globally amounts to a rounding error.
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  #19  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 10:57 PM
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That's what the Americans are going to be wanting to do very soon.
If it's Canadian water they have in mind, let them buy it by the bottle!
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  #20  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2015, 10:59 PM
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Canada can't do anything about it.

The amount of pollution we contribute globally amounts to a rounding error.
This argument no longer holds any water. Now that China and the US are for the very first time willing to do something about Climate Change at this upcoming conference in Paris Canada can do a hell of a lot to help broker a deal. We used to be an influential country and that has been lost in recent decades. It's time we step up again and actually be constructive in International Relations.
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