How cities deal with Airbnb

[Jonesy55]

We're off to Sicily in April next year, i was looking at a few Air BnB places, something like this one seems great for a family, no way you would get anything like this in a hotel for four people at US$60 per night.

https://abnb.me/6cHdoFAhcS

[mousquet]

^ Excellent! The Italian peninsula and their islands are full of fantastic deals on Airbnb and the likes.
They are wonderful!

You should feel like you're home out there. I have faith they won't disappoint.

[Baronvonellis]

Yea, that's an amazing deal for the price, and it looks great I'm sure you'll have a great time there!

[JManc]

$400 for 7 nights?

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

I've never used Airbnb, but I wouldn't want to; the whole concept sounds dubious to me.

I'm not sure exactly how it works, but I don't like the idea of staying at someone's house, which is not regulated or licensed to be an inn or a B&B or a hotel/motel etc. It's someone's house, so that means they can show up inside the property at any time, while you're sleeping there or while you're out and about, right? And what about liabilities? I'd rather stay at a hotel.

It's kind of like Uber/Lyft to me; I'd rather use a regulated taxi that is dispatched to you/your ride is recorded by a dispatcher and whose drivers and vehicles are subject to DOT laws rather than riding in some unregulated driver's Kia Forte, and you end up paying a lot anyway depending on time of day, etc.

My family exclusively uses Airbnb and Homeaway now for our foreign trips. It's really nice to have a kitchen and washer/dryer with a family. It tends to be signficantly less expensive than hotels too.

And I have never had the problem highlighted. Never heard of anyone having that problem either.

[C.]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

To each their own, of course. I can understand wanting to rent a 3-bedroom or something if you're vacationing with a large family or group or whatever.

I guess it's just my partner and me; our idea of a vacation isn't staying somewhere and cooking for ourselves and tidying up our own rooms like we actually lived there. We like to rent hotel rooms, and the hotel is strictly just for sleeping and showering while the rest of the day, we are out and about exploring wherever it is we traveled to, and then coming back to a room where the bed is made already, and we have fresh towels and a freshly cleaned bathroom. We like to eat out when we're on vacation. On longer-term stays, we've used hotel laundry service (at some of the better hotels that provide it). And we're not too picky about accommodations, so long as it's clean, in a quiet (or at least safe) area... We're usually on a budget so we don't mind staying at cheap motels, either. Again, we just use the hotel/motel to sleep and shower at.

Even when I was a kid, and my family would sometimes rent a cabin in the mountains or something, my parents never cooked at the cabin, we would always go into town for meals. That was part of the fun; after all you're on vacation, right?

I've stayed at a Hilton Hotel 128 days so far this year (I do a lot of travel for my job). I've also stayed in an AirBnB about 10 days this year. I much prefer hotels, but just because I personally don't use AirBnB as often, it doesn't mean I don't recognize it fulfills a need for the people that do.

What I like about AirBnB over hotels, is that the space is more unique and has character. Trust me, you've been in one Hilton room, you've been to them all (with a few exceptions). The other thing I like is I can often times get a better location with AirBnB than a hotel. If I wanted to stay in a specific neighborhood or residential skyscraper - I can do that with AirBnB. There may be no hotels in a particular neighborhood that I want to be in. Or the hotels are all in touristy area that bastardize the cultural experience of an area. Also, if hotels are sold out or $500 a night, there is a good chance I can get a whole apartment on AirBnB for much less.

But I prefer hotels or AirBnB, because as you stated, I like the convenience and predictability of what to expect when I check in - when I'm on work travel anyway. I'm a little more adventurous when it's leisure. My whole point for bringing all this is that I acknowledge AirBnB serves a need. It may not be for me, but there are many others who use and appreciate it.

I think cities should tax AirBnB revenue at the same rate of a hotel to make things equitable, but to those saying that it's eating up housing the solution is simple: build more housing and hotel rooms. It's all a function of supply and demand. Traditional BnB's where never a problem. The internet just made it more readily available.

On the topic of Uber/Lift - here is an interesting article from one of the Shark Tank personalities why it's time to ditch the car. I could not agree more, especially in an urban environment. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ke...of2&yptr=yahoo

[Jonesy55]

Originally Posted by JManc

$400 for 7 nights?

Yeah, around that. Flights were only just over $300 for the four of us too so I'm hoping for a bargain trip all round! $700 all in for flights and accommodation sounds good to me!

[Baronvonellis]

^Wait how did you get $300 airfare to Italy for 4 people? Or do you live in Europe?

[JManc]

I think he's in the UK. Probably flying Ryanair or EasyJet..

[Jonesy55]

Lol yeah, that's from the UK, Liverpool to Palermo on Easyjet. I would be very impressed at that price if it was from North America!

[Baronvonellis]

OK, yea the flights within Europe are insanely cheap, your lucky there! I've taken some flights within the US that are similar distances as London to Sicily, and they cost $400-500 each on budget airlines! I've wanted to visit Montreal from Chicago for a long time, but tickets are always super expensive like $600 and it's only 850 miles. I could get a cheap flight all the way to Amsterdam 4500 miles for the same price! Air prices are so crazy.

[SIGSEGV]

Flying to Canada, for whatever reason, is very expensive. Maybe try flying to Burlington vt instead of something

[McBane]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

To each their own, of course. I can understand wanting to rent a 3-bedroom or something if you're vacationing with a large family or group or whatever.

I guess it's just my partner and me; our idea of a vacation isn't staying somewhere and cooking for ourselves and tidying up our own rooms like we actually lived there. We like to rent hotel rooms, and the hotel is strictly just for sleeping and showering while the rest of the day, we are out and about exploring wherever it is we traveled to, and then coming back to a room where the bed is made already, and we have fresh towels and a freshly cleaned bathroom. We like to eat out when we're on vacation. On longer-term stays, we've used hotel laundry service (at some of the better hotels that provide it). And we're not too picky about accommodations, so long as it's clean, in a quiet (or at least safe) area... We're usually on a budget so we don't mind staying at cheap motels, either. Again, we just use the hotel/motel to sleep and shower at.

Even when I was a kid, and my family would sometimes rent a cabin in the mountains or something, my parents never cooked at the cabin, we would always go into town for meals. That was part of the fun; after all you're on vacation, right?

But it's nice to have the option to cook, if you want; it's not as if using the kitchen costs extra. But really, the best part of AirBnB is the personal experience and interaction with the host and sometimes other guests that you just can't do in a hotel. It's fun to exchange stories, bounce ideas or get recommendations from an actual resident as opposed to a hotel concierge. The other thing is location. Every city has hip residential neighborhoods outside the core that lack hotels and AirBnB is the only way to experience these areas and really live like a local as opposed to a tourist. Finally, AirBnB is a lifeline for those wishing to visit uber-expensive cities (like London or NYC) where the only affordable hotel options are in far off areas (like near an airport or suburban area).

One other thing - you said your family rented cabins in the mountains - so many people use AirBnB or other sites (like VRBO) to offer vacation homes for rent. It's not just a spare room.

[mousquet]

These low-cost airlines are great to shake the older established ones, so everyone can fly to foreign destinations more easily.

But seriously, Ryanair has been going too far. Everyone (including their own staff, if they even have any stable) on planes labelled Ryanair may be treated like gross stinky cattle, as if you rode a random Paris subway rail car.
Frankly, I wouldn't trust them. Some Irish have gone crazy just to beat the British on their ultra liberalized market.
We speak English! they would tell us Frenchies whenever we'd criticize their ill manners. Uh yeah, so what?
Who knows whether they wouldn't end up neglecting maintenance just to always go cheaper and cheaper and optimize their profits?
That would be evil.

On the other extreme side of that spectrum, you have those nuts of Air France.
Their pilots are able to go on strike for salary increase, while most already make over $200k a year, and they are protected by the French labor regulation!
Laughable!

There's got to be something balanced in the middle.

[McBane]

Also, when we traveled to India, we stayed almost exclusively at Homestays. They're not really what you'd expect. It's more like a bed and breakfast - and only once did we actually eat meals with our host family (though I would liked to more). It's just like a more personal/intimate vacation experience rather than what you get a hotel. But I can definitely see the draw of staying in a hotel, especially for those with higher budgets.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Flying to Canada, for whatever reason, is very expensive. Maybe try flying to Burlington vt instead of something

That would probably be just as expensive. Burlington is a tiny regional airport. He may have slightly better luck flying into Albany. Much bigger and more airlines. (Southwest for example). Then you got to rent a car, pay for gas, deal with the border and then drive back...

[Jonesy55]

Originally Posted by mousquet

These low-cost airlines are great to shake the older established ones, so everyone can fly to foreign destinations more easily.

But seriously, Ryanair has been going too far. Everyone (including their own staff, if they even have any stable) on planes labelled Ryanair may be treated like gross stinky cattle, as if you rode a random Paris subway rail car.
Frankly, I wouldn't trust them. Some Irish have gone crazy just to beat the British on their ultra liberalized market.
We speak English! they would tell us Frenchies whenever we'd criticize their ill manners. Uh yeah, so what?
Who knows whether they wouldn't end up neglecting maintenance just to always go cheaper and cheaper and optimize their profits?
That would be evil.

On the other extreme side of that spectrum, you have those nuts of Air France.
Their pilots are able to go on strike for salary increase, while most already make over $200k a year, and they are protected by the French labor regulation!
Laughable!

There's got to be something balanced in the middle.

Aircraft safety is something it would be very difficult to skimp on in Europe I think, it's heavily regulated, and has Ryanair ever had a crash? They are a very big airline in terms of flight numbers and passenger numbers and they have been going for a long time so you would think any safety issues would have caused incidents by now.

They do treat their staff pretty badly I think from what i've read, Easyjet and the others don't seem quite as bad.

The service is definitely no frills on those kind of airlines, but for a short flight of no more than 3-4 hours I don't really care about that personally, i can eat before I leave and once I get to my destination and I'd rather save the money for my actual trip rather than spend it on the airfare.

If it's a 10 hour flight across to the other side of the world then extra comfort etc would be more important for me, which I guess is why these low cost, no frills airlines stick to short haul flights.

[Jonesy55]

Originally Posted by CIA

I think cities should tax AirBnB revenue at the same rate of a hotel to make things equitable, but to those saying that it's eating up housing the solution is simple: build more housing and hotel rooms. It's all a function of supply and demand. Traditional BnB's where never a problem. The internet just made it more readily available.

Of course yeah, any income generated by an AirBnB owner should be taxed like other income I think, and if there are local per night 'tourist taxes' as there are in many countries those should apply to AirBnB etc just like they do to hotels. In the UK we have some special income tax exemptions which can mean income up to around £7,500 per year from stuff like AirBnB (or renting out parking spaces etc) is potentially tax free, I'm not sure that's a great idea myself.

Another issue is when people rent out apartments in mostly residential urban buildings to guests who can cause noise and anti social behaviour problems because they are often booked by 'party groups'. I don't think I'd like that if I was living in the next apartment and I think it's fair enough to regulate that.

[C.]

Originally Posted by Jonesy55

Another issue is when people rent out apartments in mostly residential urban buildings to guests who can cause noise and anti social behaviour problems because they are often booked by 'party groups'. I don't think I'd like that if I was living in the next apartment and I think it's fair enough to regulate that.

There is already nuisance laws on the book. If a neighbor is being too loud all times of the night, call the police. Just because it's AirBnB, it doesn't mean all the guests will be causing a scene.

It's like the argument the taxi industry was presenting in the early days of ride sharing: Your uber driver could be an uninsured murder and/or rapist. Ride in a safe yellow cab instead!

I don't use AirBnB all the time, but I do believe there is a certain etiquette and house rules that are enforced or risk being banned from the system. This can include no parties, no drugs, etc... There are certainty one or two horror stories out there but AirBnB alone did over 100,000,000 nights in bookings in 2017, and it's growing exponentially.

Cities should embrace it. I posted an article awhile back about a rental apartment property that allowed their tenants to host AirBnB for up to 30 days a year through a provision in the lease. The building concierge would even handle the keys and respond to problems. The result, nearly all the 700 units in the building were leased up within three months of being on the market. Living next to an AirBnB unit is not a deal breaker for some people.

[Baronvonellis]

Originally Posted by JManc

That would probably be just as expensive. Burlington is a tiny regional airport. He may have slightly better luck flying into Albany. Much bigger and more airlines. (Southwest for example). Then you got to rent a car, pay for gas, deal with the border and then drive back...

Yea, I looked at flying to Burlington it was almost as expensive since it's a tiny airport. I wanted to visit Burlington on the trip as well, so I was planning on renting a car and crossing the border. Thanks, I didn't think of Albany, I looked at Boston but then that's pretty far to drive to Montreal and back for a short vacation.

Yea, almost every Airbnb I've stayed at has house rules about not having parties, doing drugs and smoking inside.
The whole thing about having the host enter your room, you could make the same argument about that in a hotel having them enter your room or the maid stealing your stuff. It probably happens at the same rate as staying in a hotel.