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  #341  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2018, 5:26 AM
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Originally Posted by bnk View Post
Califorina was at one time from the 60's- to early 80's was probably the best place to live in the entire world. Of course when I first visited cali in the early 80's it seemed like the best place in the entire world.
I moved to SF in 1982 after visiting frairly frequently for 5 years before that. In the early 1980s, the city government was a mixture of "progressives" from the eastern side of the city and conservatives from the western and extreme northern parts. Also, at that time, all supervisors were elected city-wide so they had to be moderate enough to get votes from both extremes.

Then an initiative brought in district elections so supervisor candidates only had to win the votes of their own little part of town. Typically, that means on the Board there will be one or two "moderates" and the rest flaming liberals--no true conservatives. Interestingly, the Castro District, known world-wide as "the gay neighborhood" tends to elect someone moderately left of center but not extreme. That's because today houses in that area cost millions (mostly throughly renovated Victorian gems) and the owners are mostly middle aged or seniors, having moved to town when I did or earlier.

On the other hand, the Mayor is still elected city-wide of course and the in recent memory the most conservative candidate (but still left wing by national standards) has won. Right now the newly elected mayor is a moderate black woman, before her a moderate Chinese man.

But overall, the tone of city government is much farther left than before we got district supervisorial elections.

Quote:
Jerry Brown and the Cali state house and Senate made it easy to steal votes, or register only the votes they wanted.

That 2018 midterm election alone turned the blue small tide into a blue wave. The voter collection process needs to be looked at from the SCOTUS because all you need to do is sign your name and your person that takes your ballet to the voting booth will fill out their vote. If there are any GOP collected votes they are thrown in the circular dumpster fire.

How did California lose 10 GOP reps? Google it.
Outsiders don't understand Jerry Brown. The 80 year old Jerry Brown (yes, he is) is not the liberal "moonbeam" of the 1960s. Before he was governor for the second time, he was a "law and order" mayor in Oakland and far tougher on crime than, for example, Rahm Emanuel. As governor, he has been a fiscal hawk, swinging a state budget in deficit (due to Republican Arnold Schwarzeneggar) to a large surplus and building a $16 billion "rainy day" fund.

I'll quote you from the Wall Street Journal, no lefty media resource:

Quote:
Jerry Brown steps down next month as California’s governor, and to much of the country, he is West Coast liberalism personified, having battled the Trump administration on climate change, immigration and other hot-button issues. But in the state capital of Sacramento, the liberal lion has made his mark in a different and perhaps surprising way: balancing California’s unwieldy state budget.

Mr. Brown earned a reputation for fiscal prudence through political will and good fortune. He rejected new spending from his own Democratic Party, paid down a wall of debt, campaigned for voter-approved tax increases and passed a constitutional amendment requiring new saving during flush times. He also presided over a sustained economic boom that yielded $16 billion worth of reserves, despite ambitious spending on education and other priorities.

When Mr. Brown took over from Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger, the state had a $27 billion deficit and was considering auctioning buildings for cash. The new governor soon issued a historic veto of a budget passed by legislative Democrats that relied on borrowing and higher taxes; he called its projections unrealistic and warned that “very strong medicine must be taken.” Mr. Brown slashed social services, cut programs for the poor and scrapped redevelopment agencies. He also went all-in on a 2012 initiative that primarily raised income taxes on the state’s highest earners, convincing state voters to pass it by a margin of 55% to 45%.

As the state’s economy improved and revenue poured in, Mr. Brown increased spending on schools and health care but resisted calls to return welfare spending to its prerecession levels. He prioritized paying debts from past recessions and campaigned for another ballot measure: a “rainy day” fund to hold some of the state’s surpluses in reserve. It passed in 2014.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mix...s&page=1&pos=2

Frankly, I'm going to miss him because the next governor, former SF Mayor Newsom, is much farther left and is likely to undo much of what Brown accomplished. But for now, the CA budget is in MUCH better shape than, for example, Illinois's.

Last edited by Pedestrian; Dec 18, 2018 at 5:46 AM.
     
     
  #342  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2018, 5:35 AM
jtown,man jtown,man is offline
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Watching those videos make me really happy to live in a smaller city. The area of downtown I live in now seems to be where a lot of them sleep. My last place, also downtown, seemed to be where a lot of them panhandle, so my current area is a quieter area while only being 5 blocks away.

I've had zero issues since we moved into our new place in July. There is one guy who sleep across the street every night with so many blankets...and recently hes been getting into our lobby area and passing out some nights. All the people in all apartment resident facebook page felt bad for him, no one wanted to 'kick the scum out' or anything like that. He does need a place to go though.

Its just a hard subject to talk about. I truly believe helping some homeless only harms them. But then you have mentally ill people, who *deserve* help. And then you have this human emotion, seeing a man, a man, sleeping on a sidewalk in the cold.
     
     
  #343  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2018, 5:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post

Its just a hard subject to talk about. I truly believe helping some homeless only harms them. But then you have mentally ill people, who *deserve* help. And then you have this human emotion, seeing a man, a man, sleeping on a sidewalk in the cold.
I'd imagine one would become desensitized to seeing the homeless on the streets.

I'm not saying that to sound cold, not the intention, but day after day, month after month, year after year of seeing enough of that... MIGHT desensitize some folks.

Kinda like seeing crazy people on the train or subway. After a while, you start to ignore them, and not watch the show.

Just an observation thats all.
     
     
  #344  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2018, 6:02 AM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
I'd imagine one would become desensitized to seeing the homeless on the streets.

I'm not saying that to sound cold, not the intention, but day after day, month after month, year after year of seeing enough of that... MIGHT desensitize some folks.

Kinda like seeing crazy people on the train or subway. After a while, you start to ignore them, and not watch the show.

Just an observation thats all.
You're absolutely right and, in fact, there's good reason to ignore them since many are mentally ill.

See that guy lying there? Maybe he's sleeping. Maybe he's drunk or nodding. Maybe he's overdosed or maybe he's dead. Want to check? Maybe he'll come up swinging or clutching a knife aimed at your throat.

Personally, I wouldn't mess with them. Just walk around. Don't bother calling the cops--they won't come (at least until you get tired of waiting). Probably an ambulance wouldn't either unless you have good reason to think something's wrong with the person which requires "messing with" them which I already said I wouldn't do. Maybe if there's visible blood (never actually seen that).
     
     
  #345  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2018, 1:05 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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But according to Crawford rural people are more dangerous and violent than urbanites. That stats proved him wrong. He does not like data.
This is obviously fabricated nonsense. First, I never claimed "rural people are more dangerous", second no one has posted any stats for metropolitan re. non-metropolitan crime index.
     
     
  #346  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2018, 1:35 PM
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Really need to bring back involuntary institutionalism.


Would cut down on homeless, gun violence, and people who think trump is competent.
     
     
  #347  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2018, 4:55 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Rural areas have higher crime rates than the national average. They have lower crime rates than cities, but higher than the rest of the nation. This is not difficult.
     
     
  #348  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2018, 5:33 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
I'd imagine one would become desensitized to seeing the homeless on the streets.

I'm not saying that to sound cold, not the intention, but day after day, month after month, year after year of seeing enough of that... MIGHT desensitize some folks.

Kinda like seeing crazy people on the train or subway. After a while, you start to ignore them, and not watch the show.

Just an observation thats all.
That's absolutely true. I couldn't care less about the people sleeping in the streets because I've actually interacted with a lot of them and they are either crack heads or crazy. It wears on you, watching them trash the place, shit everywhere, do what they want with no repercussions.. I just don't have compassion anymore
     
     
  #349  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2018, 2:06 AM
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Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan View Post
That's absolutely true. I couldn't care less about the people sleeping in the streets because I've actually interacted with a lot of them and they are either crack heads or crazy. It wears on you, watching them trash the place, shit everywhere, do what they want with no repercussions.. I just don't have compassion anymore
Agreed. And it can be such a hazard when driving. Some will just walk out in the middle of the street at random or lay down in the intersection and jump right back up. Mental health aide in this country is in dire needs right now. It's getting ridiculous out there. The entrance into Downtown LA from the west (along the 110) are blocks of tents. It's like a preview to Skid Row further down.
     
     
  #350  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2018, 2:47 AM
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Agreed. And it can be such a hazard when driving. Some will just walk out in the middle of the street at random or lay down in the intersection and jump right back up. Mental health aide in this country is in dire needs right now. It's getting ridiculous out there. The entrance into Downtown LA from the west (along the 110) are blocks of tents. It's like a preview to Skid Row further down.
Yeah, about 20% of the homeless population suffers from mental illness and really needs to be institutionalized.

Those with drug addiction should be able to have use of some specific homeless shelters as I would rather have them in a shelter than on the streets. My understanding is if you're using drugs you cannot stay in a shelter.

For those who are on the streets or in their cars with a job there should be enough low income housing to house them. I am not sure why affordable housing cannot exist in the 21st Century.

Also, this is a Federal issue! States like CA shouldn't carry most all the burden. A large part of the homeless people in LA, San Diego and San Francisco came here from other States.
     
     
  #351  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2018, 3:04 AM
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My understanding is if you're using drugs you cannot stay in a shelter.

For those who are on the streets or in their cars with a job there should be enough low income housing to house them.
Quote:
SF tests new approach to homeless addicts
Kevin Fagan Nov. 16, 2018

. . . two dozen other street specialists from a cluster of city agencies . . . fanned out around the Tenderloin and South of Market neighborhoods (this week). They were on the latest test run of a new program called Healthy Streets Intervention, designed to try to clear public spaces of addicts who openly inject or smoke illegal drugs.

So far they’ve gotten 109 addicts off the streets and into homeless shelters, drug rehabilitation centers, sobering respite beds, hospitals and a range of other places where people ensnared by heroin or other hard drugs can fight for a second chance at life. The team is drawn from the city’s police, health, paramedic, homeless counseling, public works and probation departments. The idea is not to arrest people, but to route them toward a service that can offer them more help than a few nights behind bars can . . . .

The intervention technique got its first test run Oct. 17, and 26 people were taken to shelters or other services. The second run came on Oct. 30, and 53 got help. The third run happened Wednesday — it went from morning to night, like the others, and 30 people were connected to services . . . .

There’s no official count of street addicts, but 41 percent of the 7,499 homeless people counted in the city’s last one-night survey, taken in 2017, admitted to drug or alcohol abuse. Street counselors assume the actual number is higher, especially among longtime hard-core homeless people.

And those estimates don’t include the addicts who have places to live but often shoot up outside. Health officials estimate there are 22,500 injection drug users in the city.

Mayor London Breed, who often tags along with police or counseling teams as they make their rounds, logged a couple of hours with the crews Wednesday and said she has high hopes for the program. She sees it as a welcome extension of the outreach work already being done.

“This is important, because what’s going on here is not something young people (or anyone) should have to see in the streets — urinating, defecating, using drugs in the open,” Breed said, striding up Seventh Street toward Market Street, stopping every block or so to chat up street people as they connected with counselors. “What people have to understand is that it’s not going to be tolerated.

“But I want them also to know that treatment on demand is available,” she said . . . .

More than half of the people approached by the walking team Wednesday either skittered away before they arrived or refused help . . . . “Sometimes it takes two or three times in rehab before it works, and sometimes it takes months or years of talking to people before they even take that chance . . . .
https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...s-13400234.php

I believe right now you cannot actually use drugs inside the shelter but you can stay in one even if addicted. Of course, San Francisco would like to open "safe injection sites" if allowed by the state and feds and there's no reason shelters could not have one of those as part of what they offer. Since the drug of choice for some homeless is alcohol, I believe San Francisco does run some housing where sobriety is not necessary (and, since alcohol is legal, you can dring inside). I know they've talked about it.
     
     
  #352  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2018, 3:47 PM
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Ironically you would probably get fired for saying something like this in San Francisco.
no kiddin..........................my favorite city has become a dump. So sad. Can't tell you how many times i had to skip over feces and toilet paper with feces on it on a recent trip . Embarcadero is beautiful so i spend most of my time there when i visit
     
     
  #353  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2018, 4:03 PM
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no kiddin..........................my favorite city has become a dump. So sad. Can't tell you how many times i had to skip over feces and toilet paper with feces on it on a recent trip .
I'm guessing never?

The "you have to dodge poop everywhere if you walk in SF" line is the 2018 version of "there are mole people in the NY subway tunnels". Almost everyone agrees it's true even though it's obviously nonsense.

SF has a bum problem in a few geographies, which are easily avoided. Except for that Tenderloin area (which is mostly a dump with little of tourist interest) there's no reason to be pole-vaulting over mounds of poop. I don't ever recall having a "poop" issue in SF and I've stayed around Union Square (which is very close to Tenderloin's nasty blocks).
     
     
  #354  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2018, 4:31 PM
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my favorite "visiting san francisco" anecdote.

it was 2004, i was visiting san francisco for the first time in my life to attend a college friend's wedding.

he got hitched at the veteran's building in back of city hall so he reserved a block of rooms at the phoenix hotel in the heart of the tenderloin.

i took BART into the city from SFO and got off at the civic center stop. immediately upon reaching the top of the stairs out of the subway station, and looking around to get my bearings, a bum a few feet away from me doubled over and started violently (but casually) vomiting all over the sidewalk, some of the backsplash falling upon my shoes.

it was literally my very. first. moment. ever. being on the streets of san franciso; that was one hell of a welcome!
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  #355  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2018, 4:47 PM
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I'm guessing never?

The "you have to dodge poop everywhere if you walk in SF" line is the 2018 version of "there are mole people in the NY subway tunnels". Almost everyone agrees it's true even though it's obviously nonsense.

SF has a bum problem in a few geographies, which are easily avoided. Except for that Tenderloin area (which is mostly a dump with little of tourist interest) there's no reason to be pole-vaulting over mounds of poop. I don't ever recall having a "poop" issue in SF and I've stayed around Union Square (which is very close to Tenderloin's nasty blocks).
Oh come on, I spend quite a bit of time in SF, and see the Human Poop stories quite a bit....Up and Down Market, every morning, the city is out there power washing it away.

I'm up early there, and go on runs every morning, I've seen it all there from the hours of 4a-7a...SF is really a shit show.

The general rule of thumb is the crazies don't make it to the top of the hills (for obvious reasons) so that is where you are less likely to interact with the worst of society.
     
     
  #356  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2018, 5:04 PM
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Oh come on, I spend quite a bit of time in SF, and see the Human Poop stories quite a bit....Up and Down Market, every morning, the city is out there power washing it away.
But Mid-Market is basically the Tenderloin. That area has been horrible since forever. I remember visiting that area as a little kid in the late 80's, and it was much scuzzier than today.

My hypothesis- most people who go on about SF bums and poop are trying to make a point about the "dangers of liberalism" or are jealous that SF is so desirable. Not saying it isn't an issue, but it's massively exaggerated and not really that different from the other West Coast cities.

Also, this kind of stuff is present in more "stagnant" or "conservative" metros too, but tourists aren't walking through the badlands of Detroit or Cleveland on the hunt for bum poop like in SF.
     
     
  #357  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2018, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
But Mid-Market is basically the Tenderloin. That area has been horrible since forever. I remember visiting that area as a little kid in the late 80's, and it was much scuzzier than today.

My hypothesis- most people who go on about SF bums and poop are trying to make a point about the "dangers of liberalism" or are jealous that SF is so desirable. Not saying it isn't an issue, but it's massively exaggerated and not really that different from the other West Coast cities.

Also, this kind of stuff is present in more "stagnant" or "conservative" metros too, but tourists aren't walking through the badlands of Detroit or Cleveland on the hunt for bum poop like in SF.
There are far more in San Francisco, that's just plain fact. Not sure why you are being an apologist for bum poo. It happens, the city has a huge homeless problem and a drug epidemic in part because the city puts up with it to a degree.
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  #358  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2018, 5:22 PM
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There are far more in San Francisco, that's just plain fact.
How would you know? Have you done a comprehension survey of Rust Belt street detritus? Has anyone done this?

I'm probably one of the few folks on SSP who has extensively walked Detroit, and you will come across everything, including human waste. Also tons of dog waste from the packs of stray dogs. No one cares because no one from outside Detroit is walking Six Mile Rd.

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Originally Posted by SLO View Post
Not sure why you are being an apologist for bum poo.
I'm an apologist for reality. Bum poop isn't unique to SF, and is not a critical issue. It's basically an agenda-driven issue, like murders in Chicago.
     
     
  #359  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2018, 5:23 PM
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This is obviously fabricated nonsense. First, I never claimed "rural people are more dangerous", second no one has posted any stats for metropolitan re. non-metropolitan crime index.
Here are 2014 stats re: urban/suburban/rural and Metropolitan/non-metropolitan crime victimization.

https://ovc.ncjrs.gov/ncvrw2016/cont...nRural-508.pdf

It's sort of a mixed bag depending on the type of crime, with urban crime generally (but not always) being slightly higher.
     
     
  #360  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2018, 5:42 PM
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Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan View Post
That's absolutely true. I couldn't care less about the people sleeping in the streets because I've actually interacted with a lot of them and they are either crack heads or crazy. It wears on you, watching them trash the place, shit everywhere, do what they want with no repercussions.. I just don't have compassion anymore
Sadly, this is true. I've seen them throw/dump trash on the streets and it pisses me off. Being poor or homeless is not a excuse to just start trashing the city . You're just being a asshole. It's my least favorite thing in California by a long shot. It was bad in Chicago sometimes too, but because of the weather, you just more of it.

How they block sidewalks with their tents/trash is insane to me.
     
     
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