CFL Current/Future Franchises

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Distill3d

Now we're talking!

Few Changes though:

Switch Rochester for Buffalo, Windsor for Detroit, and Toledo or Akron for Cleveland. It would hard to compete directly in NFL markets.

You say this, yet include the Detroit?

I guess the Lions are so bad they aren't really an NFL team anymore?

[MonctonRad]

I would want to have a stable 12-16 team exclusively Canadian CFL before venturing back into the American market again..........if ever.

I honestly think that it is very important to the identity of the CFL that it be Canadian..........can you imagine a Grey Cup game between Rochester and Salt Lake City, with Akron as the host city?

I think that would be a disaster for the game...........it would be as popular as an Oilers/Senators Stanley Cup final would be for the U.S. TV market.

Nobody north of the 49th would watch the game.

[Ayreonaut]

I don't care if the CFL ever returns to the States. If they do, I hope it's far away from an NFL city. Perhaps Spokane, Boise, or Des Moines. I would say Rochester is too close to Bills territory.

[Distill3d]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

You say this, yet include the Detroit?

I guess the Lions are so bad they aren't really an NFL team anymore?

Originally Posted by Distill3d

Few Changes though:

Switch Rochester for Buffalo, Windsor for Detroit, and Toledo or Akron for Cleveland. It would hard to compete directly in NFL markets.

I can see how that could be misinterpreted, but I was meaning that Windsor should get a team instead of Detroit.

[Distill3d]

Originally Posted by Ayreonaut

I don't care if the CFL ever returns to the States. If they do, I hope it's far away from an NFL city. Perhaps Spokane, Boise, or Des Moines. I would say Rochester is too close to Bills territory.

Its funny you mention Boise. I was talking with a friend of mine whom works with the WHL. We were both saying that Canada should adopt Boise as it seems to be forgotten by the US. First thing that they need to do is get a WHL team, and then get a CFL team.

[isaidso]

Shouldn't we strengthen the league and nurture football in every pocket of Canada before entertaining ideas about foreign expansion?

Ottawa, Quebec City, Moncton, Halifax, London, Windsor, KW, Saskatoon, Kelowna, Victoria, then the establishment of 2nd and 3rd teams in the big 3 cities. There's lots to do in Canada first. Only once the potential of the market here has been exhausted should we think about the growth of Canadian football beyond Canada.

If interest in Canadian football grows internationally, I'd be in favour of a US league of Canadian football that is run completely separately from the CFL, then a similar one set up in Europe, and one for Asia. I'm not in favour of turning the CFL into a bi-national or multi-national league.

[habfanman]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Shouldn't we strengthen the league and nurture football in every pocket of Canada before entertaining ideas about foreign expansion?

Ottawa, Quebec City, Moncton, Halifax, London, Windsor, KW, Saskatoon, Kelowna, Victoria, then the establishment of 2nd and 3rd teams in the big 3 cities. There's lots to do in Canada first. Only once the potential of the market here has been exhausted should we think about the growth of Canadian football beyond Canada.

If interest in Canadian football grows internationally, I'd be in favour of a US league of Canadian football that is run completely separately from the CFL, then a similar one set up in Europe, and one for Asia. I'm not in favour of turning the CFL into a bi-national or multi-national league.

Why the mega league? Believe me, London would be a complete flop. There is absolutely zero interest in a second team in Montréal and barely enough support for one team in Toronto. One maritime team would suffice and splitting the Saskatchewan market would be the epitome of foolishness.

10-12 teams would be ideal, forget the U.S., Europe, Asia, Antarctica, Moon, Mars etc.

[Distill3d]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Shouldn't we strengthen the league and nurture football in every pocket of Canada before entertaining ideas about foreign expansion?

Ottawa, Quebec City, Moncton, Halifax, London, Windsor, KW, Saskatoon, Kelowna, Victoria, then the establishment of 2nd and 3rd teams in the big 3 cities. There's lots to do in Canada first. Only once the potential of the market here has been exhausted should we think about the growth of Canadian football beyond Canada.

If interest in Canadian football grows internationally, I'd be in favour of a US league of Canadian football that is run completely separately from the CFL, then a similar one set up in Europe, and one for Asia. I'm not in favour of turning the CFL into a bi-national or multi-national league.

Have you missed all the discussion about the lack of interest in football in Toronto? Do you really think another team or even two is a smart idea?

Football interest in Vancouver isn't as great as places like Calgary, Edmonton, or Regina. The Lions have a strong following, but I wouldn't say it was enough to warrant a second team here either. Soccer seems to be fairly popular here, and I would put money on the Whitecaps drawing in more crowds than the Leo's after they move to the MLS. Victoria may have interest, but as its been stated Victorians either hop the ferry to come to Vancouver or Seattle for games.

Kelowna has the population and distance from Vancouver to support a franchise, but there isn't a stadium. I'm sure that Vancouver could sell them the temporary stadium they're using next year, but I have an itching feeling that they're going to be using it more often than we think.

Having a team in Calgary and a team in Edmonton is already enough, you wouldn't want to put another team in either city. Nor would you want to put a team in Saskatoon. Though I think perhaps an alternating schedule for the Riders would be an idea (4 home games in Regina, 4 in Saskatoon), it would probably end up being a season ticket nightmare.

Ottawa has proven its not football worthy, at least on the management end of things. Its already a bit of an embarrassment for Ottawa not to have a team, but c'mon when the Renegades were encouraging women to go topless in order to get more men in the crowds, you know football is on the way out in your city.

I think if London or K-W wanted a CFL team, they would have one by now.

Quebec City and Halifax are two "unserved" cities with CFL interest. Sure, lets put a couple provisional expansion franchises there. See how much interest is still around after 5 - 10 years, and go from there.

So, now what are we left with in Canada? St. John's, NFLD? Lethbridge? Moose Jaw? Portage La Prairie? It comes apparent that the CFL is going to have to look at smaller American markets not being served by the NFL.

You say if CFL football takes off internationally, then they can support a run off league in the States, or Asia, or Europe. How exactly do you propose we market the game to an international audience? Playing an exhibition game in Portland every 10 years? Maybe a game in Prague? Lets face it, no one is going to want our product if we play an exhibition game here or there to see if there is any interest, then hum and ha for a couple years before we decide that we're going to give them their own league. It would be easier and less costly just to give them a team or two in our league and see how well it goes.

There are several reasons the CFL failed in the States when it was there 15 years ago. There was no TV deal, the teams were playing in stadiums that were way to large for the CFL, the teams (save for Baltimore) were uncompetitive, and the closest team to Canada was Baltimore. So, if the CFL learns from those lessons, there's no reason it can't be a success in the States.

I say we give them a team or two in our league first. Then see how the support goes, and then if it takes off enough to warrant it, they can have a run off league.

[Dalreg]

For all of you so called experts out there, one question who died and left you in charge? Places like Saskatoon, Victoria, Moncton, Halifax, Quebec, St John's, etc. could all support teams and probably quite well at that.

Or should we just let the inmates run the mental institution, and have a handful of teams scattered across the country.

Mayb Toronto needs a second team to actually help the Argo's. A rivalry may be just what the doctor ordered.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Distill3d

Have you missed all the discussion about the lack of interest in football in Toronto? Do you really think another team or even two is a smart idea?

WHAT????????????????????????

Trust me, I've missed nothing. I live in Toronto. Football interest in Toronto barely registers. If you read all my posts, you'll notice that I call Toronto, 'football Siberia'. I wish people would read what's written.

Wanting to build football back up in Toronto to the point where it should be doesn't equate to suggesting that football interest in Toronto today is healthy, does it?

then the establishment of 2nd and 3rd teams in the big 3 cities.

Do I need to draw attention to what the word 'then' means?

Toronto should be able to support more than 1 team, and that should be the goal 20-30 years out. That's obviously nowhere close to being feasible and won't be for decades under the scenario of near flawless execution and management from CFL league office. Nowhere have I said that interest in football in Toronto is satisfactory today.



If anything I'm the one who's been saying it's atrocious.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Distill3d

So, now what are we left with in Canada? St. John's, NFLD? Lethbridge? Moose Jaw? Portage La Prairie? It comes apparent that the CFL is going to have to look at smaller American markets not being served by the NFL.

Where is it written that the CFL needs to grow beyond 12-16 teams? Expanding to the cities you're suggesting above would mean the league is already at about 20 teams.

St. John's is 20th largest CMA in Canada, Lethbridge is 36th, Moose Jaw is 80th, and Portage La Prairie isn't even in the top 100.

The CFL can easily expand to a desirable size without having to go to the small towns you're suggesting. St. John's is the only location you listed anywhere close to the smallest current CFL city, Regina.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Distill3d

You say if CFL football takes off internationally, then they can support a run off league in the States, or Asia, or Europe. How exactly do you propose we market the game to an international audience? Playing an exhibition game in Portland every 10 years? Maybe a game in Prague? Lets face it, no one is going to want our product if we play an exhibition game here or there to see if there is any interest, then hum and ha for a couple years before we decide that we're going to give them their own league. It would be easier and less costly just to give them a team or two in our league and see how well it goes.

Once again, I wish people would read what's written. That caption of mine which you quoted has the word 'if' in it. If the CFL takes off internationally it would follow that there's demand for the product. Likewise, if someone likes ice cream, it stands to reason that they will buy it if you offer it to them.

Why are we going over Grade 6 English class?

Nowhere have I said that it's probable or drawn out a 400 page 30 year plan to get the CFL there. I wish people would read. This is getting so tiring. Here, I've reproduced that line of mine. Do you see the word 'if' there or not?

If interest in Canadian football grows internationally

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by habfanman

Why the mega league? Believe me, London would be a complete flop. There is absolutely zero interest in a second team in Montréal and barely enough support for one team in Toronto. One maritime team would suffice and splitting the Saskatchewan market would be the epitome of foolishness.

10-12 teams would be ideal, forget the U.S., Europe, Asia, Antarctica, Moon, Mars etc.

In many ways, the CFL is an ideal professional sports league for smaller market cities. The operating costs are not astronomical, players salaries are not through the roof and there are only eight home games a year (not 40) so that would tend to boost per game attendance.

CFL teams in places like Moncton, Halifax, Kelowna or Victoria would not suffer from the sports saturated market of a city like Toronto. The "Moncton Express" would not get lost in the crowd like the Toronto Argonauts do. They would be the only professional team in town. There would be immense pride of ownership in such a team. The team would be one of the main focusses of the town, just like the Rough Riders are in Regina.

All that an appropriate small market city would need for success is a 25,000 seat stadium and the proper ownership model for the team. I would imagine that in most cases this would be a community ownership model like in Saskatchewan.

I still think a 16 team all-Canadian league is possible.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I still think a 16 team all-Canadian league is possible.

So do I, but Habfanman has zero appreciation for anything this country has to offer. You're wasting your breathe. He/she already got him/herself banned from skyscrapercity. You're highly unlikely to get any constructive, academic, positive, thoughtful, or pleasant posts from that one. SSC had just about had enough with his/her baseless insults and derogatory/condescending remarks, and told him/her to get lost.


Here's where I'd like to see the CFL by 2030, expansion teams in navy:

EAST: Toronto, Montréal, Hamilton,Ottawa, Quebec City, Moncton, Halifax, southern Ontario*
WEST: Winnipeg, Saskatchewan, Edmonton, Calgary, BC, Kelowna, Saskatoon, Victoria

* It's my hope that the Toronto situation will resolve quickly and within 20 years we can have another team in the GTA, maybe Mississauga.

[Distill3d]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Where is it written that the CFL needs to grow beyond 12-16 teams? Expanding to the cities you're suggesting above would mean the league is already at about 20 teams.

St. John's is 20th largest CMA in Canada, Lethbridge is 36th, Moose Jaw is 80th, and Portage La Prairie isn't even in the top 100.

The CFL can easily expand to a desirable size without having to go to the small towns you're suggesting. St. John's is the only location you listed anywhere close to the smallest current CFL city, Regina.

You say I should go back and take 6 grade English, I'll join you there. Thats about the same place we learn what Sarcasm is.

I wasn't suggesting the CFL expand in to Lethbridge or Portage la Prairie. I was simply asking what the CFL does to expand once all the top Canadian destinations are covered.

What I'm really trying to say is that we as CFL fans and the CFL as a league shouldn't automatically close the door on the CFL being in the USA because its "our game". If its done right this time, it could actually be a success rather than a failure. And I'm not talking 15 - 20 years down the road, I'm talking about in the next 5 years. Halifax will get its team once a stadium is finished, Ottawa has a conditional team awarded for 2013(??), and Quebec City could have a team at the same time. So, why not consider some small American market for 2015?

[Darkoshvilli]

Originally Posted by JayM

Population Base: ~3,000,000

You forgot about 800,000 people.

But honestly, they should have at least added 10k more seats to molson stadium. After this year, I don't think we'd have any trouble selling out.

[JayM]

Originally Posted by Distill3d

You say I should go back and take 6 grade English, I'll join you there. Thats about the same place we learn what Sarcasm is.

I wasn't suggesting the CFL expand in to Lethbridge or Portage la Prairie. I was simply asking what the CFL does to expand once all the top Canadian destinations are covered.

What I'm really trying to say is that we as CFL fans and the CFL as a league shouldn't automatically close the door on the CFL being in the USA because its "our game". If its done right this time, it could actually be a success rather than a failure. And I'm not talking 15 - 20 years down the road, I'm talking about in the next 5 years. Halifax will get its team once a stadium is finished, Ottawa has a conditional team awarded for 2013(??), and Quebec City could have a team at the same time. So, why not consider some small American market for 2015?

If anyone can remember when they introduced Americans before? I think the idea generally being that the Grey Cup is Canadian and should remain in Canada. We have our own communities here that are resourceful enough to support a team. Lets first address situations and ideas here first before even thinking about outside sources.

[Blitz]

I can't see the CFL doing well anywhere in southwestern Ontario because this is already NFL territory and nobody cares at all about the CFL. There's huge interest in football but it all revolves around the NFL, mainly the Detroit Lions (despite the fact that they're terrible).
Every Monday in the local paper and on the news, there's tons of info about the Lions' game the previous day but to find anything about the CFL you have to really search for it somewhere in the back pages.

[MonctonRad]

This is very sad........why waste your time on a foreign sports league when we have a superior domestic product here in the CFL.

Sure, the NFL players are more skilled (by and large), but the wide open nature of the Canadian game makes it much more exciting and interesting to watch.

Perhaps Canadian expansion should focus on the east and the west. If southern Ontario is nothing more than a bunch of NFL wannabes, they can just stew in their juices.

[habfanman]

Originally Posted by isaidso

So do I, but Habfanman has zero appreciation for anything this country has to offer. You're wasting your breathe. He/she already got him/herself banned from skyscrapercity. You're highly unlikely to get any constructive, academic, positive, thoughtful, or pleasant posts from that one. SSC had just about had enough with his/her baseless insults and derogatory/condescending remarks, and told him/her to get lost.


Here's where I'd like to see the CFL by 2030, expansion teams in navy:

EAST: Toronto, Montréal, Hamilton,Ottawa, Quebec City, Moncton, Halifax, southern Ontario*
WEST: Winnipeg, Saskatchewan, Edmonton, Calgary, BC, Kelowna, Saskatoon, Victoria

* It's my hope that the Toronto situation will resolve quickly and within 20 years we can have another team in the GTA, maybe Mississauga.

You seem to think that anyone who challenges your genius lacks reading comprehension skills and/or suffers from a learning disability. Typical pompous pommy pr*ck!

As for Skyscrapershitty, that thing is almost dead outside of the Toronto fanboi section. It's easy to be banned, simply disagree with anything that the old queen moderator/TO cheerleader spouts and you're done. It has become useless as a discussion forum as only Toronto-positive articles can be posted and any critical articles are suppressed or discounted as biased, unreliable, incorrect etc. The old queen moderator/TO cheerleader immediately blows a gasket when anyone so much as suggests that another city may do something better than what is done in Toronto. Makes for humourous reading!

I say that London would be a flop in the CFL because I grew up there and there has never been any interest expressed in getting a team. London supports the OHL Knights and that's about it. Even Mustang football receives limited support ouside of staff, students and alumni of UWO. As far as Saskatchewan is concerned, I'm under the impression that the Roughriders are considered Saskatchewan's and not Regina's team. I can't see lifelong Rider fans suddenly dropping the team they love for a new one simply because it's located in Saskatoon. In my opinion, it would be foolish to f*ck with the CFL's most successful franchise.

I think that the emphasis should be put on 2 new eastern franchises. Ottawa, Québec City, Moncton or Halifax are all good candidates and the first 2 to come up with a new stadium and stable ownership should get a team. The 5 east, 5 west balance would be restored and we could then tackle the big problem: where to locate a 6th western team.

When you talk about European and Asian expansion- even hypothetically- you sound like a raving lunatic as there has been absolutely zero indication that there is now or ever will be any interest in the CFL outside of North America. But then you know everything and everyone else is an idiot so..