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Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 5:48 AM
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Stingray2004 Stingray2004 is offline
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BC Political Discussion - BC Election 2017 May 9th

Have noticed several threads derailed with BC politics. So why not post it all here?! Have been thinking about opening up a BC poli thread lately in any event.

To preface, I have been a poli junkie (some may say nerd ) since Grade 7. Have followed every provincial election (across Canada), CA fed election - even German (federal as well as state), UK, etc. elections. Am addicted to this stuff.

Individual ridings and their demographics as well as historical voting trends thereto, polling (different methodologies) ... you name it.

In that vein, ~10 days prior to the 2013 BC election, I confidently called same (if not here... elsewhere) based upon some high-quality info in the public domain - which was not reported in the MSM. If anyone wants to call me out on same - would gladly provide that info time-line.

Now looking forward to the next election...

Firstly, for a period of 20+ years, very expensive/accurate CATI pollster Mustel provided "free" quarterly polling info. Mustel's accuracy is akin to the federal CATI firm Nanos. And Nanos has always been "bang-on" with their results. Again in the 2015 fed general. Unfortunately, Mustel has not been in the BC field since prior to the BC 2013 BC general - obviously due to the expense. One reason most were "fooled" by the cheap opt-in online panel polls during the 2013 BC general.

Mustel not only provided the horserace numbers but also "Top of the Mind" issues (all unprompted). And those "Top of Mind" issues have always been... the economy, jobs, taxation, fiscal management... then followed by health care, etc.

So let's look at the incumbent BC gov't on that score:

1. 4 years of balanced budgets (actually surpluses) - only one in CA and all other provinces are struggling in that regard;

2. Only province in Canada with a triple-A credit rating (Moodys, S & P, Fitch, and DBRS);

3. Forecast to have the highest growth rate in CA over the next few years (only province with a growth rate in excess of 3%);

4. Highest employment growth rate in CA over past 12 months;

5. Outta 5 different demographic segments, BC has either the 2nd or 3rd lowest overall taxation level provincially in CA (and yes that includes MSP premiums, etc.); As well as lowest corporate tax rate;

The foregoing is definitely a tough nut to crack for any opposition political party seeking to form gov't. Seriously.

Now to political safe seats... have been doing this analysis for a couple of decades - demographics, population growth, historical voting trends, etc. In that vein, the BC Boundaries Commission has completed another redistribution of seats... and the transposed results from 2013 don't change any outcomes thereto.

But the BCBC has added another 2 seats for the next election - one in Richmond and one in southern Surrey (basically my neck of the woods) due to population growth - both can be considered "safe" BC Liberal seats heading into 2017.

Now looking at "safe" seats heading into 2017 and having reviewed all (with transposed results) I confidently come to this conclusion:

1. BC Liberal - 42;
2. BC NDP - 20; (basically the West Kootenay, northern Surrey, New Westminster, southern Burnaby (Edmonds), East Van (and West End), as well as a chunk of Van Isle ridings)
3. BC Green - 1;
4. Ind. - 1;

And when I infer "safe" seats - I mean those with considerable winning margins in 2013 and historically prior as well as demographics. The rest of the 23 remaining ridings are either "leaning" or "swing".

With 87 seats in the new 2017 legislature, the BC Libs seem to have the more "efficient" vote and are basically on the cusp of a majority from the starting gate.

Now let's look at the BC NDP - their leader, an old fella, John Horgan has had numerous "bozo eruptions" as reported by various MSM over the past. Ya know the type, under pressure... says outrageous things... face goes beet red... and then later apologizes for same. If that happens during the 2017 leadership debate... then the guy is done like dinner.

And BC NDP finances are in a shambles... late last year the BC NDP had to sell their decades long HQ on Kingsway in Burnaby in order to help pay-off their 2013 campaign debt. And apparently they still are in debt.

In fact, several private sector BC Building Trades unions have refused to donate to the BC NDP as a result of 3 BC NDP MLAs recently signing onto the "Lelu Declaration". Frankly, I have no idea how the BC NDP will be able to raise $10 million or so within the next 12+ months to mount a credible campaign in 2017.

And then the BC NDP has internal divisions that are politically unfathomable ... hard-core enviros v. resource development types (metallurgical coal mining, base metal mining, BC Hydro's Site C dam, LNG, natural gas fracking, etc. etc.). Both within the party as well as the BC NDP caucus. Frankly, the BC NDP does not know what it stands for any more.

Now let's turn to the BC Greens... received 8% popular vote share in 2013 with the invisible and lacklustre Jane Sterk. Under Andrew Weaver's leadership, they receive considerable MSM coverage - esp. on VI. Weaver is actually quite likable, affable, folksy, and intelligent. I personally like the guy and would have voted for him in his Oak Bay-Gordon Head riding in 2013. Not for the Green Party per se... but for Andrew Weaver himself.

Suspect that Weaver will make a major break-through during the 2017 leadership debate. As a matter of fact, the BC NDP leader has already publicly stated that the BC Greens will "mow their lawn" in 2017. IOW, take popular vote share from the BC NDP.

Bottom line? I will confidently climb out on a limb right now and predict that the BC NDP will have its lowest popular vote share since 1969 (aside from the 2001 debacle). And in terms of seats in 2017... give or take a few:

BC Libs - 60;
BC NDP - 20;
BC Greens - 6;
Ind. - 1;

I suspect that this is gonna be a fun thread... so let 'er rip.

Last edited by Stingray2004; Mar 3, 2016 at 2:05 PM.
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  #2  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 6:48 AM
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can I get a GO CHRISTY GO!!

I like your projections ... good work!
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  #3  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 8:20 AM
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Thanks for starting this thread Stingray. The Canada section has become less about urban issues and skyscraper oggling, and more about politics and competition between different cities, provinces, and regions. My hope is that we can prevent that from spreading here by keeping the bickering to this thread.

Before the discussion I'll add that calling the Premier "Chrusty" or other disrespectful names does nothing to help your cause. Same thing goes for calling everyone who votes for the NDP "loony-lefties". I know plenty of well-educated people who generally agree with their policies, or at least moreso than the current ruling government.

For me personally, I've voted for the BC Liberals in each election since I turned 18. I haven't had reason to do otherwise. I actually tend to be fairly centrist or centre-left, depending on the context, but I'm certainly not beholden to any particular party.

I would say, however, that in BC's context I would align myself much closer to Gordon Campbell than to Christy Clark. I feel that after the relative debacle that was the 90's, he did a good job of demonstrating to the world that our economy was one worth investing in. At the same time, he respected our local values in issues such as the environment, where BC led the world in many regards.

On the other hand, I feel that Christy Clark has moved the party (and the province) firmly to the right, far moreso than I am comfortable with. BC's environmental stewardship has taken a backseat and the province's poor continue to struggle as we are faced with rising inequality. Had I known what I do today, I don't know who I would have chosen at the ballot box.

--------------------------------------------------

And that is what is so frustrating with our politics today. On one hand, we have a ruling party with an increasingly deplorable track record on health, education, and a number of other issues - and on the other, we have an opposition that refuses to budge on any of their policies at a time when the populace is begging for a party to swoop in and take the political centre. I'm not even going to get into their ineptitude at campaigning. Seriously, they make Jeb Bush look like Obama 2008.

Anyways, I'm not going to give my position on specific issues because it's too easy for an online political discussion to devolve because one side misunderstands the other. Maybe closer to the election...
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Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 10:19 AM
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Could be worse - we could be Republicans trying to pick between Trump and Cruz...
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  #5  
Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 4:48 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is online now
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Once again I think this will be the NDP's election to lose. It looks like the BC Conservatives are once again a non-factor, so we are in a typical 2-horse race. Any rise of the Conservatives, Social Credit, or any right wing party means a vote split and the NDP are almost guaranteed victory.

There is over a year to the next election, and that's more than enough time. Christy has shown herself to be a great campaigner, but I feel like they are suffering death from 1000 cuts during their term.

Yes, the economy is doing well. But things like a $14M savings on disabled bus passes are causing them far too much grief. This is far less than 1% of their surplus for 2016-17. Why on earth would they do such a boneheaded thing?
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Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 4:52 PM
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Could be worse - we could be Republicans trying to pick between Trump and Cruz...
I'd still take either one of those over narcissistic pathological liar Hillary Clinton.
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Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 5:30 PM
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But things like a $14M savings on disabled bus passes are causing them far too much grief. This is far less than 1% of their surplus for 2016-17. Why on earth would they do such a boneheaded thing?
I agree that the bus pass thing is boneheaded (and mean) but I don't think the bulk of the electorate cares about this issue (or even paying attention).

I agree with Stingray. Libs are going to win.
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Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 5:33 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is online now
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I agree that the bus pass thing is boneheaded (and mean) but I don't think the bulk of the electorate cares about this issue (or even paying attention).

I agree with Stingray. Libs are going to win.
Elections are won and lost at the margin. How many people does this bus pass thing represent? 20-30,000 maybe? That's a lot of votes.
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Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 5:48 PM
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Elections are won and lost at the margin. How many people does this bus pass thing represent? 20-30,000 maybe? That's a lot of votes.
Not really. They're likely concentrated in certain urban constituencies that will probably go NDP anyway.
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Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 6:01 PM
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Not really. They're likely concentrated in certain urban constituencies that will probably go NDP anyway.
Exactly, and many of those who are cognitively impaired or suffering from mental illnesses do not vote unless they are coerced.

Liberals will win in an overwhelming majority again, much to my dismay....I wish we had a third party.
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Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 6:17 PM
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I watch the news every single night and can't recall the last time I saw or heard from John Horgan.

If he's trying to get any media attention to let people know he's the new face of the BC NDP he's doing a horrible job so far.
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Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 7:17 PM
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I expect that the NDP will keep John Horgan out of the spotlight, save him from too many potential screw ups. Clark's approval ratings are bottom of the barrel and anger is mounting over housing, something that people think the government is purposefully not addressing. It will be a vote against someone (the Liberals) and not for someone (the NDP).
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Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 7:22 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is online now
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I expect that the NDP will keep John Horgan out of the spotlight, save him from too many potential screw ups. Clark's approval ratings are bottom of the barrel and anger is mounting over housing, something that people think the government is purposefully not addressing. It will be a vote against someone (the Liberals) and not for someone (the NDP).
The Liberals have the advantage of being able to tailor one last budget to the key election issues that will be in the media this time in 2017. And if the economy follows the forecast, they'll have money to buy votes.
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Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 7:40 PM
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Elections are won and lost at the margin. How many people does this bus pass thing represent? 20-30,000 maybe? That's a lot of votes.
There are that many people on disability payments that take the bus? I was thinking maybe 2000? And I wonder how many of them vote...

Maybe if you included their extended families
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Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 7:50 PM
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There are that many people on disability payments that take the bus? I was thinking maybe 2000? And I wonder how many of them vote...

Maybe if you included their extended families
I was taking a wild guess based on the cost of the program. I've read anywhere from $14 to $25M. That pays for a lot of passes.
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Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 9:39 PM
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I was taking a wild guess based on the cost of the program. I've read anywhere from $14 to $25M. That pays for a lot of passes.
The government likely pays Translink more than the face value of the bus pass, since the face value itself is already a huge subsidy compared with the actual cost of service.
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Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 9:40 PM
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I'll definitely be voting for the BC Liberals this election. We have the strongest economic outlook, consistently balanced budgets, and the 3rd lowest deficit per capita out of all the provinces. However, I would like to see Clark focus more on transit and infrastructure improvements, but for me I don't think voting NDP is worth the gamble when I'm mostly satisfied with our government.

In terms of housing prices in Vancouver, I'm not going to place the blame on the provincial government. I've always been on the fence about this issue, but I'm under the impression that it's more of a supply-demand problem.
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Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 9:49 PM
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However, I would like to see Clark focus more on transit and infrastructure improvements
Except that ever since we voted her out of her own riding, she's been nothing but spiteful towards Vancouver.
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Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 9:52 PM
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I wish BC had a Liberal party and not whatever you call this provincial party.

I call them LINOs or "Liberal in name only".

I don't like the NDP, they would be a disaster for BC, in fact they have already proven to be so (remember the 90s).

But I equally despise the BC LINOs. All I want is a centrist option but in this banana republic of a province, centrism isn't offered to me.
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Old Posted Mar 3, 2016, 9:53 PM
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I expect that the NDP will keep John Horgan out of the spotlight, save him from too many potential screw ups. Clark's approval ratings are bottom of the barrel and anger is mounting over housing, something that people think the government is purposefully not addressing. It will be a vote against someone (the Liberals) and not for someone (the NDP).
Yeah, I think stingray and others underestimate how much anger will be directed at the Christy and the BC "Liberals" over the housing issue. They had a chance to show leadership on the issue with the recent budget and blew it. They chose to keep reeling in the PPT revenue and not help ordinary British Columbians. Christy Clarke strikes me as a deeply shallow person, does anyone really know what she believes in, other than getting re-elected?

The only saving grace they might have is that John Horgan is no Justin Trudeau. Unless he runs a flawless campaign it will be an uphill battle. As to the Greens, the BC Libs love to talk them up, hoping it weakens the NDP but they forget that if the Greens gather steam they could just as easily steal soft BC Lib support, those who dislike Clark.
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