Rapid Transit

[MalcolmTucker]

Any thoughts on the location of the Maintenance and Storage Facility? Is this why a spur to the Go Station might be extra useful, to access a maintenance facility?

Also, this may be why the budget grew, if the B-Line budget didn't include a maintenance facility, sort of like the Transit City snafu where they forgot to include the cost of the trains and the maintenance facilities.

[oldcoote]

Originally Posted by HillStreetBlues

What a can of worms; I’m not looking forward to the conversation about James. The distance between King and James and the West Harbour Station is 1100 meters. That’s not much too far to walk to commuter rail, and it’s not long enough to justify maybe more than one station between the two (even then, stop spacing will be too tight). The suggestion in that article is that we should have a streetcar like some of those in Toronto serving James. What does that mean? Three or four stops, a mere 250 meters apart. That doesn’t sound like rapid transit to me; that’s more like a tourist trolley car.

I’m not necessarily opposed to LRT running in mixed traffic where it’s necessary. I bet it’s politically impossible to get King closed to automobile traffic through International Village, which is what it would take. But having a streetcar line running in mixed traffic with frequent stops one kilometre up James seems senseless to me.

Yes, this will be interesting.

It certainly won't be rapid on James N, so unless it's the start of an A-line, whats the point of installing rail?

Conversely, what if they ran a loop northbound on Bay to Strachan and return southbound on James? Would also serve as an access to Bayfront Park.

[Jon Dalton]

It sounds like the city has made up its mind about using James Street but I think alternatives are worth considering. Hughson is just a stones throw away and contains basically nothing but residential. It could stay one way with room for both LRT tracks. It could also use MacNab to access the GO station but would still have to get around Jackson Square.

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Any thoughts on the location of the Maintenance and Storage Facility? Is this why a spur to the Go Station might be extra useful, to access a maintenance facility?

Also, this may be why the budget grew, if the B-Line budget didn't include a maintenance facility, sort of like the Transit City snafu where they forgot to include the cost of the trains and the maintenance facilities.

The $811 million B-line budget was indeed all inclusive. Councillors basically started making stuff up about extra costs that weren't budgeted. The increase is due to inflation.

I'm disappointed there isn't much talk about finding cost savings somewhere in the proposal. There must be ways to get costs down especially since the province is doing several LRT projects at the same time.

[drpgq]

Personally I would rather the city own and run everything, if only because the jobs then stay in Hamilton. The province is biased enough as it is towards putting jobs in Toronto, why have a couple of extra jobs based in Toronto for looking after Hamilton's LRT.

[MalcolmTucker]

One of the conditions for Metrolinx projects is the province books them. That way the debt and asset balance out on the province's books at the start, and the yearly availability fee is the cost of project delivery. In theorey when the province takes over from Infrastructure Ontario/ a P3 partner in 30 years, the province can then re capitalize the asset so the province never really has to pay for it in the traditional way of buying and owning the asset.

While it might sound less transparent it is actually more transparent as to the actual cost of having the transit line available to the people of Ontario.

(please excuse me if I used any professional accounting terms to mean the wrong thing)

[Dr Awesomesauce]

A really uplifting article on CBC Hamilton about how the benefits of LRT, in terms of development, might have to be adjusted to account for an already-hot Hamilton market.

Here's what Chad Collins had to say about that notion:

Not everyone agrees with the projected benefits. Coun. Chad Collins of Ward 5 says there will be uplift, but it won't be as extreme as what people predict.

Much of the developable land identified in the Canadian Urban Institute report isn't feasible, he said. The report identifies city parks, for example, and plots too tiny to even hold buildings. Eliminate those, he said, and the numbers fall.

Thanks for bringing us back down to Earth, Chad.

The wunderkind has forced himself into a hole out of which he cannot get - don't bury yourself too deep, Chad old boy.

[the905sDW]

Hey everyone, so once again, I couldn't help but share my thoughts on the state of transit in Hamilton.

I've mocked up my vision of how LRT could be implemented into the city to coexist with transit hubs already established. (Also had fun mocking up a symbol for LRT in Hamilton)

This is my first version of the map. I'll keep following the news in regards to how the city envisions the LRT route to be, as well as look at everyone here on SSP is saying or how they envision the system might look like. I'll keep updating it as more info or ideas come to mind.

I like to see visuals of concepts as it really allows you to see the true scope of this project.

Comments, suggestions always welcome!

Map Source, Me: © Dustin Labs.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Well done, Dustin.

It's interesting that you've created a mini-A-line rather than a spur per se. My understanding of a spur is that it's integrated directly into a main line but I could very well be wrong. Perhaps a 'spur' can be whatever you want it to be - just short.

Anyway, your route appears to follow King-John-Hunter GO-James-King-Bay-Stuart-Harbour West GO, does it not? Cool stuff.

I believe it still remains to be seen what form this spur will take. Will every train follow the spur or every other one? Will they construct a mini-A-line as you've done? I'm not sure it would have the ridership to warrant but, regardless, it'll be fun to see how LRT plans materialise.

[Beedok]

Looks very professional.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

I believe it still remains to be seen what form this spur will take. Will every train follow the spur or every other one? Will they construct a mini-A-line as you've done? I'm not sure it would have the ridership to warrant but, regardless, it'll be fun to see how LRT plans materialise.

I'm curious about this too. It will come down to what makes sense from a travel demand perspective - the east-west travel during the peak periods may be dominant so it may make sense to keep those LRVs on the main track in rush hours, and run north-south service separately along James... or maybe they will just run 1/x trains up James. That can evolve depending on future passenger flows too.

Until West Harbour gets all-day GO service, the need for the LRT connection isn't as large. But that's the likely future and by the time this is built perhaps we'll see that. The waterfront development may mean there's a need to look at extending the James/A-Line stub farther north, but incremental expansions may make a lot of sense once the core corridor is built.

The pedestrian link along Hughson to the downtown GO station interests me, and I think there should be other walk/cycle connectors considered by the city in its local planning (e.g., to McMaster Innovation Park).

Overall this is fantastic and it's great to finally move ahead with certainty.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

^Yeah, a pedestrian/ cycling route along Hughson, perhaps with a covered portion, would be nice. Hey, we could also have cycle rickshaws connecting all the various stations.

Like you said, we'll see what passenger numbers are before anything else.

[the905sDW]

Thanks Dr Awesomesauce, Beedok and ScreamingViking.

About my idea on the A-Line or Spur line - I think it would only make sense to build the starts of the future growth of the LRT system during the build of the first line.

Although ridership might be lower until more frequent GO service comes to these stations, the need for this line is still there. Those will be 2 busy hubs with lots of people coming and going from them, so to get those people on a faster, higher-capacity mode of transportation in the local system is the better way.

LRT might service the lower city, but the sprawling hoods of the Mountain will need to be serviced in the future as well. Think of all those people commuting, a faster way downtown would be great for them too. With that A-Line already built, the line would just need to go up from there.

As for the route of the A-Line I have on my map, I've avoided James North - I just feel an LRT vehicle route would break up the street too much - plus it's a busy street. I've chosen to place it nearby the action on James, just a bit away from it. It does loop around the block in front of the Hunter Street GO station - a stop would be in front of it, but could easily go in thwe the current HSR bus platforms are now.

One thing I didn't mention, was that blue line on my map. I envision a dedicated bus line with select stops from the Queenston traffic circle (LRT Station) to Eastgate Square, then to Centennial GO. It would help bridge the gap of no LRT on that stretch of Queenston.

[thistleclub]

I expect that while hub synergies are incorporated, the system will be calibrated to respond to passenger demand. The 10 Express currently interlines with the 55/58 routes because of demand in Stoney Creek (eg. 24,000 people live in the census tracts directly adjoining Queenston between Lake Ave and Fruitland Rd). If Confederation GO Station shows signs of competitive HSR-inclined boarding volumes (“kiss-and-ride” rather than “park-and-ride”) it might warrant the new buses and new hires on the 55 and 58 routes that would be required to enable extension of the 10 Express 1.6km north.

Alternately, the HSR might extend the 44 Rymal to the Confederation GO via the Eastgate terminal, just as they had proposed running the 20 Express to the waterfront via James North/West Harbour GO.

Rapid Ready’s Building A Rapid-Ready Transit Network notes:

In preparation, the objective will be to increase bus service levels in the A-Line and B-Line corridors to emulate rapid transit. Examples of possible service improvements are:

King-Main-Queenston Corridor
1. High frequency service on B-Line corridor routes:
ROUTE 1 KING/ROUTE 10 B-LINE : 5 minutes
ROUTE 5 DELAWARE/ROUTE 51 UNIVERSITY: 7.5 minutes
Result will be a combined headway of 3 minutes or better in the entire B-Line corridor

2. Additional service to/from Dundas. This change will provide a reasonable level of service to the King Street and the Governors Road areas during all time periods and will help to avoid crush loads between Dundas, McMaster and Downtown Hamilton

3. Service Enhancement to the future Centennial GO Station, subject to the development of a park and ride and transit terminal facility at this location.

...

James-Upper James Corridor
5. Service span and service level improvements to ROUTE 20 A-LINE along with restructuring to provide a high level of service in the James/Upper James corridor from the airport to the waterfront. Headways will be improved to 10 minutes.
6. Extension of year-round ROUTE 20 A-LINE service to Hamilton's waterfront (Pier 8) via Guise Street, also improving service to the future site of James North GO Station

[mattgrande]

I thought I had posted this here, but I didn't see it...

I think it'd be nice if the spur went up James and back down Bay, with a stop at Copps... Good for anyone coming in from out of town for events. Get off the GO at West Harbour, step on the LRT, and you're at the stadium in minutes.

[Bubba9000]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

I'm curious about this too. It will come down to what makes sense from a travel demand perspective - the east-west travel during the peak periods may be dominant so it may make sense to keep those LRVs on the main track in rush hours, and run north-south service separately along James... or maybe they will just run 1/x trains up James. That can evolve depending on future passenger flows too.

Let's not hope for a 'split' route. Trains that short turn or divert actually cut service in half usually. Though it sounds inconvenient, a transfer from one line to the other is best.

[flar]

Originally Posted by mattgrande

I thought I had posted this here, but I didn't see it...

I think it'd be nice if the spur went up James and back down Bay, with a stop at Copps... Good for anyone coming in from out of town for events. Get off the GO at West Harbour, step on the LRT, and you're at the stadium in minutes.

Good idea

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by mattgrande

I thought I had posted this here, but I didn't see it...

I think it'd be nice if the spur went up James and back down Bay, with a stop at Copps... Good for anyone coming in from out of town for events. Get off the GO at West Harbour, step on the LRT, and you're at the stadium in minutes.

So would every train make that trip then or just one per hour or would it be a separate line or...?

They'll figure this out, of course, but anything that delays those East-West trips is going to negatively impact the efficiency of this future line.

[thistleclub]

City begins lining up LRT ducks
(Hamilton Spectator, Andrew Dreschel, June 8 2015)

Now that the $1 billion LRT bombshell has landed, what happens next on the road to the start of construction in 2019?

City staff is busy arranging meetings to start fleshing that out with Metrolinx, the provincial transit agency that's going to design, own and, likely, operate the system.

According to city spokesperson Mike Kirkopoulos, staff will then present a high-level report on next steps to councillors at the Aug. 10 meeting of the general issues committee.

The document, he says, will address a myriad of issues and questions connected with building the 11 kilometre route from McMaster to the Queenston traffic circle, and the spur line to the James Street North GO station.

"The report will probably lay out the work that we need to do, some of the things that are outstanding from a financing perspective; what are some of the principles we're looking at regarding the master agreement (with Metrolinx), and what we need to start doing now versus starting months from now."

Meanwhile, the city has already submitted to Metrolinx an early concept drawing of a pedestrian walkway from the LRT line on King to the Hunter GO station three blocks south.

Running along MacNab Street, the corridor's proposed features include a covered sidewalk, urban braille, planter walls, bike lanes and a food truck alley.

The walkway is intended to let pedestrians move quickly and comfortably between the Hunter GO station and the LRT line.

Though the ultimate cost is unknown, as a substitute for a second spur rail line, it saves Metrolinx something like $85 million.

Kirkopoulos says public works staff also is already looking at capital projects over the next 10 years to determine what work needs to be done along the routes and how it should be staged so they're only tearing up the roads once.

Although Metrolinx will pay for moving hard services such as water lines, the city will have to cover the costs if it wants to take the opportunity to upgrade or enlarge them.


Read it in full here.

[mattgrande]

MacNab? Why MacNab? Why not Hunter? How will they connect MacNab to the station? So many questions...