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  #2841  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 3:22 AM
kaneui kaneui is offline
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(duplicate post)

Last edited by kaneui; Mar 21, 2012 at 5:01 AM.
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  #2842  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 4:03 AM
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Makes sense, well now that that corner is getting a lot of redevelopment from the Warehouses that Peach owns, to the new Court Complex, I'd think something would be happening soon with that property.
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  #2843  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 5:35 AM
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Originally Posted by combusean View Post
Are we looking at the same images? The TCC doesn't sit on what was hundreds of homes, it sits on what was block after block of one- to two-story vintage urban buildings. The street scene in Tucson would be many times larger than it is today if that area were still there.

The sheer magnitude of the neighborhood's loss is incalculable.

The photos may be a bit deceiving, as many of the 269 structures destroyed on the 80 acres within "El Barrio Libre" were adobe Sonoran row houses, built between 1860 - 1890 (with small front yards that mostly disappeared when the city put in sidewalks in the 1930s - 40s).

Those 29 city blocks were home to somewhere between 735 to 1,170 residents (depending on whose numbers you believe).



(photo: Jim Burroway)
Barrio Historico, Tucson
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  #2844  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 2:49 PM
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I agree with everyone that the destruction of El Barrio Libre was a travesty of immense proportions. Tragic. I read the area was also the most densely populated in Arizona. Makes me wonder why they have to pick that spot to build the Tucson Community Center (I could be wrong but I read/heard the TCC started as a community center and later graduated to a 'convention center'). I've also read that way back in that age people are craving for 'modern architecture' ... sick of the 'old'. Ahh yes, if only Frank Lloyd Wright designed the TCC. If a new TCC would be built, I hope it gets filled with sculptures and paintings something like the Palace of Versailles or Vatican with southwestern influence with it's own Roman 'Spanish Steps'

Looks like the city is considering creating a Central Business District . I heard it's not a question if it will be approve but to what extent (Oracle Rd. is one being considered for inclusion in the CBD). In fact, the council wants the CBD extended to their own district. I see this as another opportunity for more mid/high rise construction beyond downtown in the coming years. This forum will be extremely busy in the coming years.

btw, those student housing are going to be built otherwise that light rail would have been a failure. When there's light rail, there's high rises.
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  #2845  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 7:31 PM
kaneui kaneui is offline
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Originally Posted by acatalanb View Post

btw, those student housing are going to be built otherwise that light rail would have been a failure. When there's light rail, there's high rises.

It's been interesting to see how, once the streetcar was sufficiently funded, some large, national student housing developers with deep pockets have come in and gotten their projects approved and out of the ground first--Residential Housing Development (The District on 5th), Landmark Properties (The Retreat at Tucson), Campus Acquisitions (1020 Tyndall)--while the smaller, local developers--Oasis Tucson (Plaza Centro), Peach Properties (The Armory), Mike Noonan (Memorial Complex), and Schenitzer/Viner (First St. Apts.)--are probably struggling to line up the necessary financing.
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  #2846  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 10:12 PM
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was doing some exploring of some documents on the cities website. found some things i thought were cool/interesting.

First is the plan for Plaza Centro East/West which are now using the names "Plaza Centro Railyard" and "Plaza Centro Greyhound" Looks like it is only going to be 6 floors, with 1 floor along Congress. looks nice though, theres a pool!



Then i found the zoning rules for the Main Gate District. Looks like they plan to get a lot of new development in there.


i also got a link to the company that is in charge of the Main Gate District Planning. Nothing I've found on their website yet, but i assume they will update soon. http://www.shepleybulfinch.com/ and here is the document http://www.tucsonaz.gov/SIREPub/cach...2025327648.pdf


with this map we now know where all these new developments will be. The Campus Acq. will be on the 14/13 zoned areas on Park/Tyndall.

And Steve Shenitzer and Bill Viner's 14-story student apartment building along First Street, stepping down to 12 stories and six-stories on Speedway.

Mike Noonan's student apartment complex at 714 N. Euclid Avenue will be a four- and six-story complex.

So i wonder what the other properties have planned? Looks like the developers see a lot of potential as they are all building as tall as they are allowed.

Last edited by Anqrew; Mar 21, 2012 at 10:29 PM.
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  #2847  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2012, 11:17 PM
kaneui kaneui is offline
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Originally Posted by Anqrew View Post

So i wonder what the other properties have planned? Looks like the developers see a lot of potential as they are all building as tall as they are allowed.
Looks like the Main Gate Square Hotel project (SEC of Tyndall and Second St.) will also be allowed 14 stories as planned.

Nice to see progress on Plaza Centro, and now that Jim Campbell (Oasis Tucson) has joined up with Capstone Development (large developer), that project should be moving forward soon. (And from the latest maps, it looks like they've added another streetcar stop in front of Plaza Centro "Railyard.")

Once the two parts of Plaza Centro, The Armory, and the third building at Depot Plaza are finished, there will be some serious density on the east end of downtown, achieving that critical mass for a more urban vibe.
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  #2848  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2012, 4:17 AM
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As a timely adjunct to our discussion of Tucson's "urban renewal" efforts of the 1960s, the city's recent proposal for a new Central Business District has Councilman Kozachik livid after discovering it would reinstate the city's power of eminent domain, effectively reopening the wounds inflicted on downtown nearly 50 years ago:


Building Rancor
Plans for downtown redevelopment summon the ghosts of urban renewal

by Tim Vanderpool
Tucson Weekly
March 22, 2012

Old ghosts were recently summoned downtown, as the Tucson City Council pondered a new economic cure with timeless, bitter roots. The ghosts were named "Condemnation" and "Demolition." And in an old town with a long memory, they still haunt with ease. They certainly grabbed headlines 50 years ago, under the gleaming banner of "urban renewal." That's when the city cannibalized its soul by condemning and demolishing our wizened barrios, stretching for block after downtown block—and occupied mostly by brown people.

In their place, we now have that monument to progress called the Tucson Convention Center. So it's hardly surprising that a ruckus arose over similar semantics popping up in a latter-day scheme to boost downtown development. It was in January when the council began chewing over a possible "central business district," in which business owners willing to sell their property to the city and then lease it back could be eligible for nearly a decade's worth of property-tax abatements. In return, they'd be required to improve the property's value by 100 percent. But under state law, any such district must lie within a formally designated "redevelopment area," created to address slums and blighted zones. And amid the fine print of that redevelopment statute resides the authority for cities to claim eminent domain over included properties, and have them demolished.

Knowledge of this little nugget grew out of a Feb. 28 council meeting, when one local citizen asked how the proposed district might screw with historic neighborhoods encircling downtown. This left Ward 6 City Councilman Steve Kozachik wondering the same thing. Of course, he was in a position to get answers. So after chatting with the chap who actually authored Arizona's redevelopment law, Kozachik arrived at a disturbing conclusion: After several months of discussion, city attorneys had never mentioned its sweeping powers of condemnation. The councilman was not pleased. He followed with a scorching assessment in his March 7 ward newsletter, noting that a healthy chunk of downtown residents "are still reeling from a similar process by which historic barrios were leveled to make way for the TCC." Until the condemnation language is neutered, Kozachik wrote, he would yank all neighborhoods in his ward out of the proposed redevelopment area.

Which brings us to City Attorney Mike Rankin, who'd already been roughed up during a February study session. That's when council members Karin Uhlich and Regina Romero berated his initial central business district map as too tightly focused on downtown's core, while ignoring other struggling business corridors. And now Rankin was getting swatted by Kozachik. So why had he failed to tip off the council about creepy condemnation language in a measure it was getting ready to approve? Contacted by phone, Rankin is circumspect. "We knew about it," he says. "I think I talked at least briefly in the study sessions about redevelopment areas, and one of the things you have to be sensitive to is the fact that redevelopment areas do have this eminent-domain feature to them. But it's entirely possible that I didn't. It is true that one of the things that come along with the designation of a redevelopment area—sometimes called slum and blight area—is specific authority for eminent domain or condemnation, to acquire properties for redevelopment. That is not the purpose behind this particular direction and action of the council."

Rankin adds that the use of eminent domain is already a long shot in light of Proposition 207, a ballot measure passed in 2006 that requires government to compensate owners when its actions reduce property values. The measure was passed with financial support from developers, and from an Illinois-based property-rights outfit. Regardless, he says his folks are crafting a way out of this legal corner, with plans to nullify any condemnation language in the final ordinance. "Councilman Kozachik is right to point it out," Rankin says, "and I've got some work to do to get the information in front of the mayor and council."

Yup. "If I'm city staff," Kozachik says, "the first thing that's going to come out of my mouth (about redevelopment districts) is, 'You can do that, but understand that it gives us the right to initiate condemnation proceedings. And there might be some collateral damage you may want to consider.' ... For me to have to go dig that out really pissed me off." Kozachik calls condemnation "very much an open wound" in parts of his ward. As for how the city attorney plans to address this, "they have not gotten back to me," he says.

Or to John Burr. He's president of the Armory Park Neighborhood Association, and the fellow who sparked this fracas during the February council meeting. Burr worries about the council's rush to create a slew of zoning changes and business-incentive areas, many of them nipping on the fringes of downtown's historic neighborhoods. The central business district is just the latest. While Burr says he's glad the condemnation specter has received an airing, "it doesn't ease my fears entirely." According to Burr, Proposition 207 makes the use of eminent domain more dicey, but hardly impossible. The city attorney "forgot to realize the larger ramifications," he says. "They are in effect opening themselves up for another round of urban renewal. Which is exactly what was intended by the corporations that sponsored Prop 207 and its 10 or 12 stepchildren all over the country."

Others suggest that the moment is nigh for downtown's rebirth—and that the council has tight reins on any risks to the neighborhoods. Among them is Michael Keith, who heads the Downtown Tucson Partnership. As Rankin was getting lambasted during that February study session, Keith stepped outside of the council chambers to discuss downtown development. He glanced around drowsy El Presidio Park, as sunlight crested over a forest of government towers. Fear should not be allowed to stall progress, Keith argued. "This is the city's moment to step up and define itself. And in all the years that I've been going to council meetings, I've never seen a council that's more focused on the people who live in their districts."

Nor are they likely to forsake Tucson's historic core, he said. "That's what is going to make this a one-of a-kind district that nobody else in the country has. Because the historic neighborhoods are there, that's what makes it special." Not everyone, however, puts so much faith in the promise of good intentions. Such as all those ghosts lingering in the shadows of the TCC.


http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/b...nt?oid=3264805
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  #2849  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2012, 5:01 AM
Ted Lyons Ted Lyons is offline
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Good info in re Plaza Centro. I forget where, but I recently saw the proposed height listed at six floors and was surprise as I thought it was initially meant to be higher. Regardless, it looks like a good project.
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  #2850  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2012, 5:17 AM
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for anyone that wants to look around at the city documents i found, go to this map: http://maps.tucsonaz.gov/tdot/

zoom in on downtown until it shows you property lines.
when you click on a property it takes you to a new page with documents about plans for that property (if they exist).
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  #2851  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2012, 6:06 PM
Ted Lyons Ted Lyons is offline
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Some random notes:

Construction has begun on the Walmart at The Bridges. From afar, it looks like the foundation's been laid and wall construction is about a quarter finished.

The UA's Tree Ring Building is also well underway. I drive by on 6th every day but just recently noticed it.

http://www.pdc.arizona.edu/webcam/TreeRing.aspx



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  #2852  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2012, 6:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Lyons View Post
Some random notes:

Construction has begun on the Walmart at The Bridges. From afar, it looks like the foundation's been laid and wall construction is about a quarter finished.

The UA's Tree Ring Building is also well underway. I drive by on 6th every day but just recently noticed it.

http://www.pdc.arizona.edu/webcam/TreeRing.aspx



I like the design of the tree ring building, looks like a piece of art.
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  #2853  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2012, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Anqrew View Post
was doing some exploring of some documents on the cities website. found some things i thought were cool/interesting.

First is the plan for Plaza Centro East/West which are now using the names "Plaza Centro Railyard" and "Plaza Centro Greyhound" Looks like it is only going to be 6 floors, with 1 floor along Congress. looks nice though, theres a pool!



Then i found the zoning rules for the Main Gate District. Looks like they plan to get a lot of new development in there.


i also got a link to the company that is in charge of the Main Gate District Planning. Nothing I've found on their website yet, but i assume they will update soon. http://www.shepleybulfinch.com/ and here is the document http://www.tucsonaz.gov/SIREPub/cach...2025327648.pdf


with this map we now know where all these new developments will be. The Campus Acq. will be on the 14/13 zoned areas on Park/Tyndall.

And Steve Shenitzer and Bill Viner's 14-story student apartment building along First Street, stepping down to 12 stories and six-stories on Speedway.

Mike Noonan's student apartment complex at 714 N. Euclid Avenue will be a four- and six-story complex.

So i wonder what the other properties have planned? Looks like the developers see a lot of potential as they are all building as tall as they are allowed.
Seems like if the U of A gets anymore highrises their skyline will look better than in downtown . But good for us with all the jobs were going to get to build the towers. I hope that more buildings will be built in between downtown and the U of A so we can have a nice skyline, still nothing is really that tall, Not even 1 south church which is a whole 310 feet above the ground! We need to fill our all ready existing towers but how?

On the plaza centro i thought that the buildings would be as tall as the new tep. I also thought they would be 9 stories. I guess I was wrong, lets hope that the students that will move in will support the local downtown businesses. I think they will. Im glad that the new plaza centro is participating in rain water harvesting. Not because of the lack of rain water in Tucson but because paving the desert makes more run off which can flash flood in urban areas like they did last July at southside. Run off can also speed up the flow in the santa cruz and faster erode the banks and that can cause bridges,paths and structures to fall in. The santa cruz can also flood the town of Maricopa Az where they kinda killed (ended) the river (Wash) in the past few years while the town was built.
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  #2854  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2012, 1:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Ted Lyons View Post
Good info in re Plaza Centro. I forget where, but I recently saw the proposed height listed at six floors and was surprise as I thought it was initially meant to be higher. Regardless, it looks like a good project.
Yea I also thought that the buildings would be taller like the new TEP building
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  #2855  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2012, 1:25 AM
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yeah not sure why plaza centro was changed from 11 to 6 floors, i was really hoping to see 11 floors!
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  #2856  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2012, 5:48 AM
Patrick S Patrick S is offline
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Originally Posted by Anqrew View Post
was doing some exploring of some documents on the cities website. found some things i thought were cool/interesting.

First is the plan for Plaza Centro East/West which are now using the names "Plaza Centro Railyard" and "Plaza Centro Greyhound" Looks like it is only going to be 6 floors, with 1 floor along Congress. looks nice though, theres a pool!



Then i found the zoning rules for the Main Gate District. Looks like they plan to get a lot of new development in there.


i also got a link to the company that is in charge of the Main Gate District Planning. Nothing I've found on their website yet, but i assume they will update soon. http://www.shepleybulfinch.com/ and here is the document http://www.tucsonaz.gov/SIREPub/cach...2025327648.pdf


with this map we now know where all these new developments will be. The Campus Acq. will be on the 14/13 zoned areas on Park/Tyndall.

And Steve Shenitzer and Bill Viner's 14-story student apartment building along First Street, stepping down to 12 stories and six-stories on Speedway.

Mike Noonan's student apartment complex at 714 N. Euclid Avenue will be a four- and six-story complex.

So i wonder what the other properties have planned? Looks like the developers see a lot of potential as they are all building as tall as they are allowed.
Did anyone go to the 4th Ave. Street Fair? I went with my daughter for about an hour and saw about a dozen people with signs opposing the overlay zone, or trying to get people to sign their petitions against the overlay zones. I can understand their frustrations, I guess, but at the same time, they live right in the center of a major city, between downtown and a huge (and still growing) major university. It's not like they live in Vail, or the middle of the desert.

I grew up in southern Illinois, in a town of about 25,000 people (which was the biggest town for about 100 miles). They built a (at the time) big Super WalMart in the town. The town about 8 miles to the west/north-west had an older WalMart on the north side of their town. Some 10-15 years later they decided to build a Super WalMart for that town, but instead of building it in that town, they built it right-off the four-lane highway connecting these two towns, closer to my town than the other town. There were stretches of businesses on this road, but they decided to build it right in the middle of a residential area, literally right in people's backyards. The crossroad (that intersected the main, four-lane road) was a crappy black-top road without even painted lines on it. This was now the road used to turn into the WalMart, but customers and Semi-trucks alike.

The point I'm making here is that it's one thing to complain when you live outside a city or town and they plop something in your lap - that I understand (I was against the WalMart, I had a friend who lived about a half-mile down the black-top crossroad - I just didn't understand why they would build it where they did, and not in the town the WalMart was supposed to be for). I don't understand when you live in a city and you get mad at progress. I understand it may be frustrating, but if you don't want the progress then don't live in the center of a city, right next to a huge university.
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  #2857  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2012, 3:28 AM
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yeah not sure why plaza centro was changed from 11 to 6 floors, i was really hoping to see 11 floors!
Im hoping that the 6 stories is an old plan and has been changed to 11 stories, that would be perfect!
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  #2858  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2012, 8:43 AM
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Whos seen this? its great!

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  #2859  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2012, 2:55 AM
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1020 Tyndall

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  #2860  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2012, 5:31 AM
kaneui kaneui is offline
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^If this gets built, it could be the city's tallest residential tower since the 17-story Tucson House was completed in 1963. But don't hold your breath--it looks like the neighborhood NIMBYs have collected enough signatures to put the newly-approved Main Gate UOD on the ballot in November (unless the council chooses to amend its decision):

http://azstarnet.com/article_e4efe03...1ad46cc75.html

Last edited by kaneui; Apr 7, 2012 at 7:24 AM.
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