Canadian Global Cities

[lio45]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Canada's big trump card from an international tourism pov will always be our wilderness, but it won't be our only one 20-30 years from now. People are increasingly coming here to see our urban offerings. One only need live in one of our big cities to realize that it's starting to happen.

I've yet to meet a tourist in Toronto who came looking for mountains or beavers. They came here for Toronto and more seem to come every passing year. I suspect the same thing is happening in Ottawa, Montreal, Calgary, Vancouver, etc. as the word gets out.

Really?

Where would they be from, to come to Canada as tourists mostly for the "urban offerings" experience?

[Ramako]

Originally Posted by lio45

Really?

Where would they be from, to come to Canada as tourists mostly for the "urban offerings" experience?

I don't mean to speak for him, but I'd guess other large cities. I don't think he meant "urban offerings" as meaning the generic big-city experience, which isn't altogether rare, but the particular urban offerings of Toronto. I find that big city dwellers often enjoy visiting and exploring other big cities.

[eemy]

It's depressing how many of the items on the list are related to Disney in some form.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Ramako

I don't mean to speak for him, but I'd guess other large cities. I don't think he meant "urban offerings" as meaning the generic big-city experience, which isn't altogether rare, but the particular urban offerings of Toronto. I find that big city dwellers often enjoy visiting and exploring other big cities.

I think you're right. No one who wants to see one really big city and has a choice would pick a Canadian city over those of other countries.

But many people do like cities in general and visit many of them all over the world, simply to see what they are like.

[Ramako]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think you're right. No one who wants to see one really big city and has a choice would pick a Canadian city over those of other countries.

But many people do like cities in general and visit many of them all over the world, simply to see what they are like.

Indeed. I find that what urbanites, world over, love about visiting new cities is exploring the landscape and discovering the vibe of the city. Big name tourist traps are fine and all, but save for a small handful of cities like London, Paris or New York, you can get the touristy stuff out of the way in a weekend and they don't really provide a sense of what the city is all about anyway. The real fun is just walking the streets and getting lost.

I think that Toronto's growing reputation as a cosmopolitan global centre should generate some tourist interest in those who are coming here anyway for Niagara Falls. Perhaps instead of flying in then almost immediately driving to the Falls, people will begin to plan to spend a few days in the city to enjoy the urban experience in its own right. Toronto has the potential to generate a very large tourist industry by doing a better job of sponging off the draw of the Falls.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Ramako

I don't mean to speak for him, but I'd guess other large cities. I don't think he meant "urban offerings" as meaning the generic big-city experience, which isn't altogether rare, but the particular urban offerings of Toronto. I find that big city dwellers often enjoy visiting and exploring other big cities.

This!

I know tons of Americans from big centers that visit Toronto simply because they want to experience yet another big city that they haven't yet explored. I enjoyed exploring Chicago's neighbourhoods, though many aren't visually that different from Toronto, but have never been to any of their art galleries or museums, not my cup of tea.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by lio45

Really?

Where would they be from, to come to Canada as tourists mostly for the "urban offerings" experience?

I can only speak for Toronto so will just respond based on what this city is experiencing. Visitors are coming mostly from the UK, US, and China, but Toronto tourism data is showing significant bumps from all over the world. The type of tourist Toronto is getting is changing as well. Historically most have been visitors from western NY, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, and Michigan who came for a few days and didn't spend too much. The rest were either business travelers or people coming from the UK and elsewhere visiting family.

Things started to change around 2005. Visitors are coming from further, spending more, staying longer, and often have no family or business here at all. They're coming to see Toronto. We're only about 9 years in, but these trends are becoming undeniable. Toronto will still get lots of business travelers, day trippers, and people visiting family, but the city is also turning into an international city destination.

I've been here since 2001 and seen a big difference in the type and number of tourists coming here. They're coming for TIFF, shopping, the performing arts, museums, galleries, festivals, parades, food, and just to see a new city. Globe trotters get tired of going to Paris and Hong Kong every year.

The accumulation of urban offerings isn't happening over night. It's a gradual build out with new baubles added to the list each year. The aquarium and Aga Khan cultural centre are both examples of the city adding to its appeal as an attractive urban get away. The rumoured Bloomingdales and Saks Fifth Avenue will do the same.

As was mentioned in a foreign rag a few days ago: 'Toronto will be spectacular when they finish building it!' That said, I think many of our cities are on that same path. Some are just further along than others.

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I can only speak for Toronto so will just respond based on what this city is experiencing. Visitors are coming mostly from the UK, US, and China, but Toronto tourism data is showing significant bumps from all over the world. The data suggests that the type of tourist Toronto is getting is changing as well. Historically most have been visitors from western NY, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, and Michigan who come for a few days and didn't spend too much. The rest were either business travelers or people coming from the UK and elsewhere visiting family.

Things started to change around 2005. Visitors are coming from further, spending more, staying longer, and often have no family or business here at all. They're coming to see Toronto. We're only about 9 years in, but these trends are becoming undeniable. Toronto will still get lots of business travelers, day trippers, and people visiting family, but the city is also turning into an international city destination.

I've been here since 2001 and seen a big difference in the type and number of tourists coming here. They're coming for TIFF, shopping, the performing arts, museums, galleries, festivals, parades, food, and just to see a new city. Globe trotters get tired of going to Paris and Hong Kong every year.

The accumulation of urban offerings isn't happening over night. It's a gradual build out with new baubles added to the list each year. The Aquarium and Aga Khan cultural centre are both examples of the city adding to its appeal as an attractive urban get away. The rumoured Bloomingdales and Saks Fifth Avenue will do the same.

As was mentioned in a foreign rag a few days ago: 'Toronto will be spectacular when they finish building it!'

Couldn't have said it any better. I'll also add that for someone with family and friends pretty much all over the world, an underlying common theme that I'm hearing now is that relatives of mine who rarely would have considered visiting in the past are now wanting to come visit purely to see what Toronto is all about. In theory, I should take that personally since I was never reason enough for them to visit in the past, but it definitely speaks to the growing positive reputation that the city is experiencing in other parts of the world.

[isaidso]

I hear the same things myself. My Australian relatives came to visit Toronto, not me. I went to meet them when they found out that I lived here. Toronto is the new kid on the block, but stacks up very well next to the competition. The word is spreading and we're staking out a growing piece of the pie.

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

As for tourist numbers, it depends on the source. Those numbers may be just tourist or they may be locals as well.

Yes, international PAX should only be used as a gauge and used in conjunction with other data to form conclusions or generalizations. That said, a great deal of international traffic does flow through Pearson.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by ACT7

....an underlying common theme that I'm hearing now is that relatives of mine who rarely would have considered visiting in the past are now wanting to come visit purely to see what Toronto is all about.

This is interesting. I may appear to be a big Toronto booster on this board, but I've always considered myself to be realistic about the city's appeal, and have never really gotten the impression that very many people were visiting the city for the city itself. Aside from Americans in the nearby midwestern states and New York/Pennsylvania, I mean.

My very strong impression from people I've met outside of Canada is that the Rockies trump everything else as a drawing card. That's the number one attraction I've heard mentioned, though the more adventurous travellers want to go somewhere farther north to see polar bears. An academic French couple I know, for example, said that they were drawn to Canada by a desire to be in or nearby to the arctic wilderness. They now live in Winnipeg, so close enough!

Generally, though, people going to "America" for a couple weeks want to go to New York, Florida, the Grand Canyon, Las Vegas or California, don't they? I'd have a hard time imagining a family of four in France or Germany considering a trip to Toronto in addition to or instead of Disneyland or Las Vegas.

Though perhaps there is a growing "urbanist" class of people in their twenties and thirties extending beyond the boundaries of this web forum? Maybe we're not so niche anymore?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by rousseau

An academic French couple I know, for example, said that they were drawn to Canada by a desire to be in or nearby to the arctic wilderness. They now live in Winnipeg, so close enough!

Are they aware that they'd be nearer the arctic if they lived in northern France than they are in Winnipeg?

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Though perhaps there is a growing "urbanist" class of people in their twenties and thirties extending beyond the boundaries of this web forum? Maybe we're not so niche anymore?

Definitely. It's not even really underground anymore. Publications like the Wallpaper city guides (which cover Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver) and New York Times' 36 hours series appeal to well-heeled twenty and thirty-somethings who are willing to fly across the pond, in either direction, just to visit a single city.

Toronto's appeal is growing as this kind of tourism becomes more prevalent. I'm not a marketer, but I think that Toronto excels at the kinds of things that these tourists seek: off-the-beaten path urban vibrancy, casual modern dining, and a unabashedly anorak-like interest in quirky, local curios. Luckily, Toronto's traditional weaknesses, like large museums, familiar landmarks, an architecturally significant tourist core, and serving as the backdrop to grand historical events, are things that these tourists tend to ignore.

[softee]

Originally Posted by rousseau

This is interesting. I may appear to be a big Toronto booster on this board, but I've always considered myself to be realistic about the city's appeal, and have never really gotten the impression that very many people were visiting the city for the city itself. Aside from Americans in the nearby midwestern states and New York/Pennsylvania, I mean.

My very strong impression from people I've met outside of Canada is that the Rockies trump everything else as a drawing card. That's the number one attraction I've heard mentioned, though the more adventurous travellers want to go somewhere farther north to see polar bears. An academic French couple I know, for example, said that they were drawn to Canada by a desire to be in or nearby to the arctic wilderness. They now live in Winnipeg, so close enough!

Generally, though, people going to "America" for a couple weeks want to go to New York, Florida, the Grand Canyon, Las Vegas or California, don't they? I'd have a hard time imagining a family of four in France or Germany considering a trip to Toronto in addition to or instead of Disneyland or Las Vegas.

Though perhaps there is a growing "urbanist" class of people in their twenties and thirties extending beyond the boundaries of this web forum? Maybe we're not so niche anymore?

Sure, but lots of international tourists have already been to those places on previous visits, and on subsequent trips to "America", many of them may give Toronto a go.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by lio45

Are they aware that they'd be nearer the arctic if they lived in northern France than they are in Winnipeg?

Leur façon de le dire est naïve, mais tu sais bien ce qu'ils ont voulu faire entendre. Winnipeg peut bien être très très légèrement plus au sud sur une carte du monde (et encore, j'ai dû vérifier à cause de toi), c'est carrément la Sibérie comparé à Lille. C'est l'évidence. Climat continental vs "océanique" comme on dit ici. Ce climat particulier qui caractérise l'Europe de l'ouest et donc la France en premier lieu, dû aux courants qui traversent l'Atlantique depuis le Golf du Mexique. Le Gulf Stream, comme ils disent. Ça a dû être découvert par des Anglos. La Scandinavie aussi est bizarrement plus chaude que le Canada sous les mêmes latitudes. Bizarrerie des courants marins et des masses d'air associées, si je me souviens bien. Quoique je sois bien faible en climatologie moi-même et que je ne t'apprenne probablement rien ici, mais ça fera du français à traduire pour les curieux.

Bordeaux est plus au nord que New York, mais en hiver on jurerait que c'est 2000km plus au sud.

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Leur façon de le dire est naïve, mais tu sais bien ce qu'ils ont voulu faire entendre. Winnipeg peut bien être très très légèrement plus au sud sur une carte du monde (et encore, j'ai dû vérifier à cause de toi), c'est carrément la Sibérie comparé à Lille. C'est l'évidence. Climat continental vs "océanique" comme on dit ici. Ce climat particulier qui caractérise l'Europe de l'ouest et donc la France en premier lieu, dû aux courants qui traversent l'Atlantique depuis le Golf du Mexique. Le Gulf Stream, comme ils disent. Ça a dû être découvert par des Anglos. La Scandinavie aussi est bizarrement plus chaude que le Canada sous les mêmes latitudes. Bizarrerie des courants marins et des masses d'air associées, si je me souviens bien. Quoique je sois bien faible en climatologie moi-même et que je ne t'apprenne probablement rien ici, mais ça fera du français à traduire pour les curieux.

Bordeaux est plus au nord que New York, mais en hiver on jurerait que c'est 2000km plus au sud.

En réalité, si on regarde bien, le côté Ouest des continents est toujours plus doux. À cause de la rotation de la terre, les courants chauds se déplacent généralement vers le Nord-est.

Tokyo, à +/- la même latitude que Washington a le même climat. De même que Hokkaido juste au nord ressemble davantage au Québec pour le froid qu'il y fait en hiver ainsi que la végétation, à peu de choses près que le climat est davantage influencé par l'océan étant une île.

[Acajack]

Et Winnipeg a "l'avantage'' (si on veut) d'être à 1000 km des ours polaires de Churchill sur la baie d'Hudson!

[FrAnKs]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Et Winnipeg a "l'avantage'' (si on veut) d'être à 1000 km des ours polaires de Churchill sur la baie d'Hudson!

C'est ''L'avantage'' du climat continental !

Moscou, ne bénéficie même pas de la douceur de l'océan et
L'allemagne est déjà plus froide que la France.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Et Winnipeg a "l'avantage'' (si on veut) d'être à 1000 km des ours polaires de Churchill sur la baie d'Hudson!

Tout cela est fort possible et même surement agréable... De toute façon, je l'ai déjà dit une fois sur ce forum. Cette obsession des Canadiens sur le climat est fatigante comme un signe de frustration. C'est assez. D'ailleurs il est tard ici et j'ai une insomnie et ça me fatigue. Je le déclare ici, la rudeur de votre hiver vous poussera à être astucieux et inventifs. Je la considère comme une chance dans votre souffrance en hiver. C'est vrai que le froid fait très mal. Je le sais moi-même. Ça fait un mal de chien dans sa chaire comme des coups de couteau. Mais quand on souffre, on réfléchit d'autant plus. C'est cela que j'attends des Canadiens. Qu'ils montrent comment vivre confortablement dans les froids les plus rageurs. Et vous n'avez pas le droit de vous plaindre, hein. Assez des gens qui se plaignent.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Tout cela est fort possible et même surement agréable... De toute façon, je l'ai déjà dit une fois sur ce forum. Cette obsession des Canadiens sur le climat est fatigante comme un signe de frustration. C'est assez. .

Ce n'est pas faux que certains Canadiens sont obsdédés par leur climat et l'hiver, par contre le cas qui nous concerne est apparemment celui de deux Français qui étaient tellement passionnés par l'hiver qu'ils sont allés vivre à Winnipeg.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Definitely. It's not even really underground anymore. Publications like the Wallpaper city guides (which cover Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver) and New York Times' 36 hours series appeal to well-heeled twenty and thirty-somethings who are willing to fly across the pond, in either direction, just to visit a single city.

Toronto's appeal is growing as this kind of tourism becomes more prevalent. I'm not a marketer, but I think that Toronto excels at the kinds of things that these tourists seek: off-the-beaten path urban vibrancy, casual modern dining, and a unabashedly anorak-like interest in quirky, local curios. Luckily, Toronto's traditional weaknesses, like large museums, familiar landmarks, an architecturally significant tourist core, and serving as the backdrop to grand historical events, are things that these tourists tend to ignore.

That still doesn't mean that I'd travel to a place like Sydney, just to visit Sydney. The list of cities that I would plan a fairly long trip just to visit the city itself is relatively short.