Is Atlanta the most important city in the South?

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Tuckerman

I have little doubt that Georgia is now a purple if not blue state.

purple state? definitely.

blue state? not yet.

GA is now in that small and special group of states known as "the swing states" that actually determine the outcome of US presidential elections. the other 40 some odd states were all forgone conclusions before the campaigns even started and they ultimately didn't make any difference in the outcome.

these are the only 8 states where the biden/trump margin was within 5 points +/-:

Fla.
N.C.
Ga.
Ariz.
Wis.
Pa.
Nev.
Mich.

[(four 0 four)]

Originally Posted by Tuckerman

I have little doubt that Georgia is now a purple if not blue state.

The state-level power is still very much R's and watch as they do their absolute best this legislative session to change voting laws and regulation to assure that a blue win doesn't happen again.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

Atlanta is important but more important than DFW? I don't see that, even with ATL's oversized socio-cultural impact and being the state capital.

No, I didn’t say that. Throughout this thread, we’ve noted that Dallas and Houston are likely “more important” based on size and GDPs.

I’m just noting that regardless of major measure, Atlanta is a very important US city and depending on the boundaries, the most important city of the South.

[Tuckerman]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

purple state? definitely.

blue state? not yet.

GA is now in that small and special group of states known as "the swing states" that actually determine the outcome of US presidential elections. the other 40 some odd states were all forgone conclusions before the campaigns even started and they ultimately didn't make any difference in the outcome.

these are the only 8 states where the biden/trump margin was within 5 points +/-:

Fla.
N.C.
Ga.
Ariz.
Wis.
Pa.
Nev.
Mich.

It is truly absurd that our strange electoral college system now means that these few states can determine the Presidential outcome. The amount of money poured into GA for the Senate seats was extraordinary and at the same time pathetic. As for the Presidential votes we should go to a national vote and eliminate the absurdity of the electoral college. You wonder why Democrats even bother to vote for President in California. We do need constitutional reform.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by pj3000

No, I didn’t say that. Throughout this thread, we’ve noted that Dallas and Houston are likely “more important” based on size and GDPs.

I’m just noting that regardless of major measure, Atlanta is a very important US city and depending on the boundaries, the most important city of the South.

In the U.S. Census region known as the South, there are five very big metro areas that are in the same tier: Washington DC, Atlanta, Miami, Houston, Dallas.

Of the five, Atlanta is the only one that's unarguably culturally Southern.

It's also in the heart of the region, while all the other four are completely ex-centric.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

most people wouldn't. it's yet another example of just how far "the south" stretches from east to west.

here's another fun one: NYC and chicago are closer to each other than atlanta and dallas are.

Something surprising to most I would guess is how quickly one can drive from "deep south" Alabama, into Clearly-Northern-State Illinois.

Driving regularly (pre-Covid) from the Canadian border of Vermont, to Florida, I am used to the idea that the South is pretty damn far from the North.

[TheShekelcounter]

if Atlanta is important, that's fine and great, who really cares? people in Miami or Houston don't care one bit lol....people living now in Nashville think the city is "important", so do people that live even in Huntsville

[JManc]

Originally Posted by TheShekelcounter

if Atlanta is important, that's fine and great, who really cares? people in Miami or Houston don't care one bit lol....people living now in Nashville think the city is "important", so do people that live even in Huntsville

People in Houston, Dallas and Miami 'care' and see Atlanta as important. So do those from New York, the Bay Area, LA and Chicago.

[skapunkskatedude]

I may be bias in that i live in Atlanta, but i'm not American (British), and from my own perspective, i have always considered Atlanta to be far more influential than any other southern city (Atlanta was a place i was somewhat familiar with before i moved here, i don't think i could have said that for Dallas). The Olympics probably help that, but it's a hard place to ignore when things like CNN are being broadcast out of it, or when the CDC is the centre of attention (Covid or not), or from the sheer amount of television and film that's coming out of it (I went back to England a few years ago, and sure enough i see all of this Walking Dead merchandise with the Atlanta skyline all over it), or just from the fact that almost everyone flying through the US will have stopped in Atlanta, no matter where their destination is.

I'm not sure that ranking cities on "importance" is possible, especially without defining what criteria is used. That's why i used influential, as i think the influence of a city is what defines it more than anything else (after all, Washington D.C. isn't a huge city in itself, but its influence makes it one of the most well known cities in the world). And with these past elections having gone the way they did, Atlanta's influence will only continue to grow.

With regards to regions, basically half the country is considered the South, i'm not sure that we could even consider it to be just one region because of that. I consider Texas and Florida to be their own regions, with their own distinct cultures, and then consider everything else to be the Southeast. I just think people tend to think of South and Southeast as being synonymous with one-another.

[Serenade]

Atlanta, Dallas and Houston are pretty much the same city anyways.

[cabasse]

^that gets a big lol from me for dumbest comment in the thread yet. i've lived in two of the three, and i wouldn't even say houston and dallas are the same city, even though the two are more similar than atlanta compared to either. and that's not a slight to any of them, they are just superficially and culturally more different than similar.

[Quixote]

Atlanta:

—Capital of arguably the most quintessentially “Southern” state (the other would be Alabama, part of which is counted in Atlanta CSA), and really the crossroads of the vast region known as “the South” from Virginia to eastern Texas — where the Atlantic, Gulf Coast, and Florida converge
—World’s busiest airport, hub of one of the three legacy carriers (Delta)
—CNN, CDC, Coca-Cola, UPS
—Civil Rights Movement (MLK’s hometown, John Lewis, SCLC headquarters)
—Jimmy Carter
—1996 Olympics
—College football (a very Southern cultural attribute) hotbed
—Emory and Georgia Tech

Case closed. I don’t think Atlanta being the hegemon of the Southeast gives it extra importance beyond perceived value.

[craigs]

*Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston are not "the same" and anybody who has been to all three knows that. Sure, suburbia is suburbia, but each of these cities stands out among the top 50 for particular reasons.

*It's not "case closed," but above and beyond population counts and GDP, where Dallas and Houston rank higher, Atlanta has a cluster of attributes that distinguish it from Dallas and Houston as noted above.

*Atlanta's metro is unique in the South in that the sum total of the rest of the state can vote one way, and metro Atlanta can successfully tilt the state another way. That is power that Dallas, Houston, and Miami don't currently possess.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by craigs

*It's not "case closed," but above and beyond population counts and GDP, where Dallas and Houston rank higher, Atlanta has a cluster of attributes that distinguish it from Dallas and Houston as noted above.

It's case closed because as others have noted, Texas and Florida are their own distinct entities. DC might be more NoVA-oriented, but Baltimore being in its CSA provides the northerly directional tilt that makes it wholly Mid-Atlantic. South Florida might as well be Caribbean (it's as close to Havana as it is Orlando). All four are located at the most extreme peripheries of the broadest geographic definition of "The South."

"The South" is more of a connotative than denotative identifier (much like how "East Coast" generally refers to the Northeastern US). Atlanta embodying the most quintessential Southern attributes and being situated at the geographic crossroads of the entire "South" region as defined by the Census Bureau in conjunction with the aforementioned factors that give it economic, cultural, and political currency make it an open-and-shut case for me.

[Quixote]

I would say Dallas and Houston are Southern beyond just the geographical sense, but not "The South" if that makes any sense. The best analogy I can give is DC... Northeastern and part of the Bos-Wash corridor, but not "The Northeast."

[JManc]

I don't see DC as northeastern. It's quasi-southern that gradually became part of the Mid Atlantic by osmosis but not what I would traditionally call northern. There's a lot of twangy accents and it feels very southern in August. Being the seat of the federal government brings in a lot of outsiders to mix up the vibe.

[NYbyWAYofGA]

Originally Posted by JManc

I don't see DC as northeastern. It's quasi-southern that gradually became part of the Mid Atlantic by osmosis but not what I would traditionally call northern. There's a lot of twangy accents and it feels very southern in August. Being the seat of the federal government brings in a lot of outsiders to mix up the vibe.

I would say that DC is more quasi-Northern than quasi-Southern, in large part due to it being connected via the Bos-Wash transit corridor.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Atlanta embodying the most quintessential Southern attributes and being situated at the geographic crossroads of the entire "South" region as defined by the Census Bureau in conjunction with the aforementioned factors that give it economic, cultural, and political currency make it an open-and-shut case for me.

Yeah, a bunch of us were using that method earlier ("weighted Southernity") and out of the five main cities in the "South", Atlanta is by far the most important when adjusted for levels of cultural Southern-ness.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by NYbyWAYofGA

I would say that DC is more quasi-Northern than quasi-Southern, in large part due to it being connected via the Bos-Wash transit corridor.

Connected due to being seat of the government sure and relative proximity to other large coastal cities like New York and Philly but culturally, it's closer to its southern neighbors. If Richmond or Charlotte were just a bit closer and coastal, they too would be connected. DC is an enigma because it's a magnet for people from everywhere because of the federal government but I would say it's southern vibe still seeps through.

[Quixote]

DC metro isn’t the “Northeast proper” culturally, but definitely Northeastern because of the gravitational pull of Baltimore. The DC MSA is home to about 500K more Virginians than Marylanders, but that discrepancy is thanks to several exurban counties. Conversely, you have places like Howard and Anne Arundel Counties (Maryland) which technically belong to the Baltimore MSA, but are also more within DC’s orbit than the aforementioned exurban VA. So the DC CSA clearly has more of a northern tilt, despite much of the engine being concentrated in NoVA. But Fairfax County has more in common with Montgomery County, MD than it does, say, Fredericksburg, let alone Richmond.

I see the DC area as its own little Mid-Atlantic region distinct from Greater NYC and the Delaware Valley (New Netherland)—which are officially defined as “Mid-Atlantic” to distinguish from New England. The connection with not just Baltimore, but also points farther north along with the sizable Jewish population, make it skew Northeastern, although not of the traditional brand with the legacy Italian and Irish communities.