Why is Miami so underrated for its urbanity?

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by LA21st

That's what it sounded like. I don't know what else would be considered fairly urban in those links?

I'm not going to argue about what something someone else said sounded like. I don't consider that area to be particularly urban... it's mainly a mix of low-rise apartment buildings and SFHs built between the 1910s and 1950s, with newer apartment buildings added in. It's certainly not what comes to mind if I'm thinking of "urban environment"... but many of the small blocks in that area have 10-20 structures on them (often MF structures)... so there is an undeniable density component that is present. It definitely does not represent "quality urban form" overall to me, but it also cannot be completely dismissed unless one is being disingenuous.

[iheartthed]

Did Miami ever have streetcars?

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Did Miami ever have streetcars?

Yes, I know that there were lines in Coral Gables and to Miami Beach, but I don't really know the extent of what the system was. There's been talk for awhile about a new streetcar line downtown and to the beach... so I've seen news stories off and on about the trolley cars from long ago.

It seems pretty much every city of even modest size had streetcars back in the early 1900s.

[mello]

I think some of Destroy Create's excitement for Miami is the factor that he has never been to the place and its so different and maybe refreshing compared to where he lives right now. I have noticed this sometimes when I go to someplace new I'm more impressed by it simply because it is different than my normal surroundings.

Peter did you take any pics of these landscaped pedestrian areas you mentioned in your OP that you wish LA and SD had?

[jd3189]

Originally Posted by LA21st

I wouldn't say one pre war building means its urban. That's a weird take.
I'm sure Atlanta has more pre war blocks than Miami does.

Have you ever been to Miami? There's more than just one prewar apartment building in Eastern Little Havana. Being familiar with both Miami and LA now, that area of Little Havana is very similar to areas of low-rise apartment buildings in Koreatown and much of the Westside. Car centric but can still walk around to most of what you need.

[LA21st]

No, but I've seen it on Google maps .

It's more van nuys than Koreatown.

[destroycreate]

Originally Posted by LA21st

The negativity is from your negativity and misleading in your original post..
And what you said has been known. There are alot of highrides but on street level it doesn't look walkable.
I'd rather walk around Hermosa Beach than a place with boring condo blocks with no retail.

Where was my negativity in my original post? All I did was hype the place. Every other comment from you seems to be smug and defensive.

Sure I stated some hard, undisputable truths about LA. I love LA a ton, but let's be real, the filth and homelessness are out of control. I never claimed Miami was more urban or more urban than any particular city, it simply surpassed my expectations. I thought it would feel more like a sprawly resort town. By the way, I live in Ktown and have to step over piles of trash every day--I just haven't seen that in Miami.

You clearly need to visit because your assessments are inaccurate.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

Where was my negativity in my original post? All I did was hype the place. Every other comment from you seems to be smug and defensive.

And shine some light on hard, undisputable truths about LA. I love LA a ton, but let's be real, the filth and homelessness are out of control. I live in Ktown and have to step over piles of trash every day--I just haven't seen that in Miami.

Saying there's wackos everywhere is the truth and isn't negative?
Are there some? Sure. But you can be tons of Beach communities in la County or orange county and be perfectly fine.
It's real only one Beach area that has that problem.

And then you decided to downplay the Beach front pedestrian experience?
I've never seen that, or heard that from anyone. It's weird. Even with Venice issues, it's still one ot the busier pedestrian areas on the weekends in the country. And that's just the boardwalk.

What smugness? It's the truth..I don't think assessments are wrong and it seems everyone says the same thing. I have friends who visit and thry just hang around south beach and don't say much about the rest. You're the one hyping it up.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

Where was my negativity in my original post? All I did was hype the place.

I didn't feel any negativity in your post at all. Like you said, you were certainly hyping Miami, and only made comments about your impressions in comparison to LA.

If anything, I felt you were being overly generous to Miami, in terms of its urbanity. But there's nothing wrong with forming and sharing opinions based on your on-the-ground experiences. It seems that's a very big and necessary part of the City Discussions subforum.

[craigs]

South Beach is solid, and while it's still a work in progress, I liked the tree-lined part of the Brickel highrise corridor. The rest of what I saw was certainly not 'underrated' in terms of urbanity.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by craigs

South Beach is solid, and while it's still a work in progress, I liked the tree-lined part of the Brickel highrise corridor.

The rest of what I saw was certainly not 'underrated' in terms of urbanity.

Brickell is nice area... it was before all the mega construction of the past 15 years, and is nice area now -- though with much better groud-level, public amenities and overall acitivity.

This neighborhood will continue to densify and increase in its function as a true continuation of downtown as more people move in, coinciding with Miami's/South Florida's growth.

Even though I joked that the OP must be sampling Miami's finest blow to come up with such a correlation between the terms 'underrated urbanity' and 'Miami', I think he has a valid point. There is a notion that Miami is nothing but sprawlsville/highway/strip mall-forever land... and that is a valid description for a lot of Florida, in general. So, to a first-time visitor from the opposite coast, Miami might present totally unexpected urban experiences. Miami is not Florida beach town honky-tonk, it's much more tropical, international city on the ocean. And I think that sometimes still surprises people on first visit.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Brickell is nice area... it was before all the mega construction of the past 15 years, and is nice area now -- though with much better groud-level, public amenities and overall acitivity.

This neighborhood will continue to densify and increase in its function as a true continuation of downtown as more people move in, coinciding with Miami's/South Florida's growth.

Even though I joked that the OP must be sampling Miami's finest blow to come up with such a correlation between the terms 'underrated urbanity' and 'Miami', I think he has a valid point. There is a notion that Miami is nothing but sprawlsville/highway/strip mall-forever land... and that is a valid description for a lot of Florida, in general. So, to a first-time visitor from the opposite coast, Miami might present totally unexpected urban experiences. Miami is not Florida beach town honky-tonk, it's much more tropical, international city on the ocean. And I think that sometimes still surprises people on first visit.

I knew better than to expect 'honky-tonk,' but given the extensive highrise residential development I guess I expected more of a Vancouver experience out of Miami. And I was definitely disappointed with the older part of downtown Miami.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by craigs

I knew better than to expect 'honky-tonk,' but given the extensive highrise residential development I guess I expected more of a Vancouver experience out of Miami. And I was definitely disappointed with the older part of downtown Miami.

Yeah, you'd think with the insane boom of condo development, the street-level activity would reflect it... but no, it's just not there. Plenty of reasons for that, though that's another topic. Though the experiences of downtown Miami and of downtown Vancouver have much more to do with the core functions of the two cities, than they have to do with building makeup.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Yeah, you'd think with the insane boom of condo development, the street-level activity would reflect it... but no, it's just not there. Plenty of reasons for that, though that's another topic. Though the experiences of downtown Miami and of downtown Vancouver have much more to the core functions of the two cities, than they have to do with building makeup.

I'm sure the massive parking podiums play a big role. It's like parking podium after parking podium over there. In that way it's reminiscent of the developing neighborhood of South Park in DTLA. Are there parking minimums mandated in Miami? I would think that if there was less focus on accommodating cars, the pedestrian activity would be more active. But I'm also guessing that being luxury condos that's not the clientele they're going after. Perhaps the flooding risk also plays a factor as to why all the buildings there have parking podiums.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Yeah, you'd think with the insane boom of condo development, the street-level activity would reflect it... but no, it's just not there. Plenty of reasons for that, though that's another topic. Though the experiences of downtown Miami and of downtown Vancouver have much more to do with the core functions of the two cities, than they have to do with building makeup.

It's been a long time since my last visit to Miami, but I find downtown Vancouver to be sterile, which is also the level of urbanity I'd expect from Miami. (Lots of shiny new glass towers for international investors, little ground floor retail.)

[dc_denizen]

The populace of Miami doesn’t value pedestrian-friendly urbanity . That’s the difference between Vancouver and Miami . Exhibit a: miami Drivers

If they did , Miami could pretty easily be retrofitted to something more wholesomely urban . Where there is a a will there is a way , and vis-versa

[pj3000]

^ Even though that is quite a generalization for a rather large population, it is generally true. People who have lived in Miami for their entire lives know no different. In certain parts of Miami, you don't walk... you just don't. It has been built up in car culture for a long time, and never really had the extent of a pedestrian-oriented environment like most other eastern cities have historically had.

But Miami is evolving rapidly. Like you said, it is easy to retrofit because of its pancake flatness.

And I think Miami drivers are only responding to their environment. Build grade-level, 3+ lane highways throughout your city... and people will oblige you.

No matter where I go, the world's worst drivers seem to follow me

[SFBruin]

I think that the urbanity in Miami is overrated. Not to diss OP's point, but the city has a largely sterile, albeit extensive, skyline, and not much else representing urbanity.

I think that it has a lot of potential, and is a nice place, but is more Pasadena than Brooklyn.

[pj3000]

^ Absolutely more Pasadena than Brooklyn.

And I never want it to be Brooklyn.

[Segun]

If you're comparing Miami Beach to LA, I'd say its like a mash up of Westwood and Santa Monica. Santa Monica because of the beach setting and the Lincoln Ave Promenade, and Westwood with the high rises lining the road.