Zibi (Domtar Lands Redevelopment) | U/C

[agl]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I did go through the document, which is why I made the comment regarding the absence of the DOTT on their diagram. I could even forgive them if they had shown the O'Brien diagonal tunnel, but the fact that they've used ancient TMP data is a bit puzzling.

A plan of this scale needs to be tightly integrated with a mass rapid transit plan, a shuttle system isn't enough. In order for the commercial and public activities aspect to be successful, it needs to draw way beyond the immediate area. If transit is inadequate and parking is scarce, businesses and attractions will have a hard time. Also, that's a lot of residential units they are proposing and public transit will have to be superior in order to convince residents not to have a car.

The planning for LeBreton Flats suffered from the lack of a concrete transit plan at the time. The slow progress has been a blessing, and now that the LRT plan is in place, the NCC is considering increasing the density of the future phases. I hope this convinces Gatineau, Ottawa and the NCC to get their act together and get the inter-provincial public transit strategy going before it's too late. It will be easier and cheaper to work with this project at this planning stage rather than working around if it's already built.

This is my biggest concern with this project. As the land will be undergoing a complete conversion, this is the one and only real opportunity to implement true rapid transit through downtown Hull and add links to Ottawa. A simple shuttle between Hull and Ottawa linking the two cities' rapid transit lines just does not cut it for regular commuters due to the number of transfers required; it would only be useful for tourists, the island residents, and mid-day riders. Taking advantage of the existing rail right of way south of Laurier from the CivilHistory museum stretching west beyond UQO is an opportunity that should not be missed. If it utilizes the Prince of Wales Bridge rather than Chaudière to cross over to Ottawa that`s fine. But once the buildings go up south of Laurier, affordable segregated East-West rapid transit options through Hull are gone.
Overall, I am very excited for this project and the developer doing the work, but we can't miss this opportunity for transit. Whatever happened to Action Gatineau's enthusiasm for LRT/tramway linking Aylmer to Hull and Ottawa? All transit focus continues to be on east Gatineau.

[Boxster]

I agree with you.

But you seem to have forgotten to mention Gatineau which will have the larger portion of the development.

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Wow.
I mean WOW.

WOW.

WWOOWW.


This is THE project, people. This happens in Stockholm, Freiburg and Malmö. But here? Never in a thousand years would I have even dared to dream that Ottawa would see anything like this. Never.

I mean, everything from the design of the streets to the orientation of the buildings is as damn close to flawless as you can get in the real world. Reading the document, I was quite literally almost brought to tears because I just couldn't believe it. God, this is just... wow.

Wow.

[J.OT13]

Rapid transit between Ottawa and Gatineau is about as likely as the Bank-Rideau-Montreal subway line; ain't gonna happen. The best we can hope for is a surface lrt loop through downtown, and even the chances of that happening are slim to none.

Of course, a lot of people want that loop; Sparks Street BIA, Windmill and to a point the Mayor of Gatineau (though he has a minority government against a bunch of "Gatineau is independent of Ottawa so screw collaboration").

Anyway, wait and see.

[bikegypsy]

This is an awesome project and I'm totally confident it will happen... What ever the usual wet noodles say

[Boxster]

Maxime is a separatist which is too bad for the people of Gatineau. At least he is in a minority government.

His attitude is that no one is going to tell him what to do....eventhough someone else is footing the bill. Typical PQ behavior.

I was so happy when they fell flat on their face during the last election.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Rapid transit between Ottawa and Gatineau is about as likely as the Bank-Rideau-Montreal subway line; ain't gonna happen. The best we can hope for is a surface lrt loop through downtown, and even the chances of that happening are slim to none.

Of course, a lot of people want that loop; Sparks Street BIA, Windmill and to a point the Mayor of Gatineau (though he has a minority government against a bunch of "Gatineau is independent of Ottawa so screw collaboration").

Anyway, wait and see.

[lrt's friend]

To make this a success as a people place, it is critical that the location be easily accessible and that means good quality transit. This is also an opportunity to connect the urban fabric of Ottawa and Gatineau but to be fully successful, Lebreton Flats cannot remain underdeveloped. Likewise, we need to extend the connectivity into the western part of downtown, which I presently consider a rather dead area compared to other parts of downtown. In other words, we need to make choices that are going to encourage more people to venture to the west of Bank Street and towards the Windmill project and on into Gatineau. This will be a major undertaking but there is a lot opportunity at the present time to build that connectivity and make the area more attractive to pedestrians.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by agl

Overall, I am very excited for this project and the developer doing the work, but we can't miss this opportunity for transit. Whatever happened to Action Gatineau's enthusiasm for LRT/tramway linking Aylmer to Hull and Ottawa? All transit focus continues to be on east Gatineau.

That's actually my fault. I was supposed to keep the fire going with that project, but it fell victim to my tougher-than-anticipated semester. The mayor agreed to meet with me ages ago and I just never got round to setting a date. However, I just finished my last test and I'm very unemployed so beginning now, I'm gonna be all over this.

If anyone has any time/expertise/contacts to contribute, Team Aylmer LRT is looking for all the help we can get

[Boxster]

The Alexandria bridge is an example of great connectivity for pedestrians between Ottawa and Gatineau. It allows great views of both shore lines and the wood surface is nice to walk on.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

To make this a success as a people place, it is critical that the location be easily accessible and that means good quality transit. This is also an opportunity to connect the urban fabric of Ottawa and Gatineau but to be fully successful, Lebreton Flats cannot remain underdeveloped. Likewise, we need to extend the connectivity into the western part of downtown, which I presently consider a rather dead area compared to other parts of downtown. In other words, we need to make choices that are going to encourage more people to venture to the west of Bank Street and towards the Windmill project and on into Gatineau. This will be a major undertaking but there is a lot opportunity at the present time to build that connectivity and make the area more attractive to pedestrians.

[ars]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

Sorry, but years of living in Ottawa and seeing how things happen have made me a bit of a pessimist.

Same here

The proposal looks so good that I'm surprised no one has started NIMBYing it yet, it's the Ottawa way to NIMBY everything that looks good and promising.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by ars

Same here

The proposal looks so good that I'm surprised no one has started NIMBYing it yet, it's the Ottawa way to NIMBY everything that looks good and promising.

We still haven't heard from the First Nations. If they oppose this project that could mess it up.

[ars]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

We still haven't heard from the First Nations. If they oppose this project that could mess it up.

Ah yes, I knew I was forgetting something.

There's always a "but..." when it comes to Ottawa

[cr872190]

Looks amazing. I think I have read the whole thing nearly twice.

Aside from their 10-15 year total construction period I would love to know if they have any anticipated timelines for this.

I assume approval with the City/Gatineau/NCC/First Nations will take the better part of the rest of this year. Finalizing details + site prep + sales prep + sales office will take another 6 months-ish. Is expecting to see units on sale late 2015 a little too ambitious?

[McC]

Originally Posted by cr872190

Is expecting to see units on sale late 2015 a little too ambitious?

I think so, and not just for the approvals, how many condos are sitting on the market right now?

[cr872190]

Originally Posted by McC

I think so, and not just for the approvals, how many condos are sitting on the market right now?

Well the first phase (on the Ontario side) will only have three residential units, with about 350 units. I think given the status of this project, the builder and the location I think they could easily sell that many units over the four years they are giving for each phase.

[Kitchissippi]

I doubt Chaudière Island currently has the sewerage capacity to service the kind of development they want to put there. The city has to agree to put all the services in, and it won't be that simple bringing it to an island. Those ancient industrial buildings must just have septic tanks for their toilets (or worse, flush it into the river )

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I doubt Chaudière Island currently has the sewerage capacity to service the kind of development they want to put there. The city has to agree to put all the services in, and it won't be that simple bringing it to an island. Those ancient industrial buildings must just have septic tanks for their toilets (or worse, flush it into the river )

Page 200:

Sanitary sewers were designed to easily access each building and limit and ensure that the receiving municipal sewer has capacity to convey sanitary flows from the site to downstream wastewater treatment plants. The sewers within the Gatineau site are designed to be entirely gravity drained directly to a large sewer within Rue Laurier. The development on Chaudiere and Albert Island will require pumping to reach the elevation of the sewer system adjacent to the site. The development on both the Ottawa and Gatineau side can be serviced with limited upgrades to surrounding municipal infrastructure and treated by the Ottawa and Gatineau wastewater treatment plants.
09

Are we looking for reasons why this project's impossible? It's ambitious, yes, but I think that it's come far enough that we can start to consider than someone at Windmill, the City of Gatineau, City of Ottawa, NCC, both chambers of commerce, Aboriginal communities, etc. etc. etc. would have thought about it.

[Kitchissippi]

No, just saying that expecting condo units to go on sale next year is a bit far fetched.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Boxster

Maxime is a separatist which is too bad for the people of Gatineau. At least he is in a minority government.

His attitude is that no one is going to tell him what to do....eventhough someone else is footing the bill. Typical PQ behavior.

I was so happy when they fell flat on their face during the last election.

That's what's weird. Everyone says he's a separatist, but he is the first (if not only) Gatineau mayor who wants to collaborate with Ottawa for a more integrated metropolitan area. And if that's his goal, then the Chaudière Island redevelopment is a huge step in linking the two downtowns.

[J.OT13]

Watson is on board and ready to push this one through! I think this one has a good chance to get done without to much bureaucratic red tape.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; thank God the private sector got a hold of it before the NCC.

Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson wants red carpet, not red tape for Chaudiere project

By Jon Willing ,Ottawa Sun
First posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 05:28 PM EDT | Updated: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 05:35 PM EDT


Mayor Jim Watson says redeveloping the old Domtar lands on the Ottawa River will be a catalyst for change along the waterfront and he won't let City Hall stand in the way.

Windmill Development Group revealed more details this week about its $1-billion plan to turn the industrial site on the Ottawa-Gatineau border into a mixed-use community.

"We will work very closely with them to ensure that we're rolling out the red carpet and not the red tape because this is a very complicated piece of land," Watson said Thursday.

Windmill needs both cities and the National Capital Commission to be onboard with the master plan to build new homes, retail space and offices on Ottawa's Chaudiere and Albert islands and in Gatineau along the north bank of the river.

Most of the riverfront property west of Parliament Hill is owned by the NCC.

The old paper mill property is a rare exception and there's an opportunity for the private sector to lead the charge and inject creativity along the waterfront. There's little doubt at Ottawa City Hall that Windmill, whose philosophy is grounded in green development, is the company to make it happen.

The city has as special service to help large development proposals navigate the municipal bureaucracy and Watson expects the Windmill project to qualify.

There are already comparisons being made to the Lansdowne Park mixed-use construction.

But in the case of the Windmill development, Watson said the city wouldn't contribute any money to the project.

Windmill managing partner Jonathan Westeinde said the two developments have some common elements but his blueprint is trying to achieve a different vibe.

"If I were walking down Lansdowne Park I don't think I'd feel like I'm in a urban, European-type atmosphere. That's what we're trying to create here," Westeinde said.

Watson said boosting Ottawa's waterfront has been a slow process and Windmill's project could be a "once-in-a-lifetime opportunity."

Developing around the Domtar lands is a precarious exercise with the NCC holding most of the power.

The NCC has been coming up with ideas to animate the waterfront but Watson doesn't think the agency needs to go overboard.

"I think the very fact we have natural riverfront is a good thing and I don't want to see a whole series of cafes on every square inch of the riverfront," Watson said. "The benefit of our riverfront is it's generally unspoiled."

http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/04/23/...udiere-project

[Dado]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I've said it before and I'll say it again; thank God the private sector got a hold of it before the NCC.

I'd say more like thank God Westeinde and Windmill got a hold of it before anyone else did.

I mean, take a read of this from the article below:

"Windmill has not yet purchased the site. Its deal to buy the land from Domtar is contingent on successful zoning approvals."

Isn't that like a violation of the Ottawa Developers Compact to actually get zoning approval before buying a property?

I was pretty sure that the way things were supposed to work in Ottawa was that a developer buys a plot of land for way more than is economic according to the zoning, then propose to rezone while ignoring the community as much as possible and calling them NIMBYs, try to convince planning and council to pass the rezoning making use of as many loopholes and stretches as possible, then go to the OMB where they get approval, and then build it.

But these Windmill folks are doing it all wrong: they consult first with the public, they listen, they propose something that incorporates public feedback and submit whatever rezoning is needed - and all before buying it.

The guy in charge is even able to say something like this:

"This project appears to have captured the hearts and imagination of the community."

Ya, he's definitely doing it wrong. The Ottawa Developers Compact can't be very happy with him.


Windmill unveils plans for ‘world’s most sustainable community’ for former Domtar lands