NEW YORK | 2024 Olympics Bid?

[SHiRO]

Originally Posted by aquablue

Well, given that South America is hosting 2016, and Asia in 2020, that really only leaves Europe and Africa as competition for USA in 2026. Since Europe hosted in 2012, I think N. America is due for the games. Africa will be the only competition.

It doesn't work that way. It may be an unwritten rule that no consecutive Olympics should be in the same part of the world, there's no such thing as an Olympics "being due". There are many factors that play a role in the bidding process.

Why is it that other posters in this thread get this and can eloquently write down an analysis and you and ue keep bitching about certain cities being "owed" an Olympic Games or whatever? (which could even be a valid personal opinion were it not you keep omitting other cities that are just as and even more "deserving" going by your logic)

[SHiRO]

Originally Posted by ue

Actually, I have, numerous times in the LA thread in this very subforum. I also alluded to it at post #50.

Very nice, but that's 10 posts AFTER the post I was responding to...

Somewhat true pre-war (but not fully), but definitely not true post-war. The Olympics may be European in origin but they are supposed to represent the world.

Then why are you focussing on the US? The US already had 4 Summer Olympics.

Washington, San Francisco, Boston, Houston, Dallas, Philadelphia, Miami, and San Diego.

There are ten other cities all over the world for every one mentioned here that are just as capable and probable to host an Olympics.
Why are you bringing up San Diego over Istanbul? It shows YOU are US centric instead of your claim that the IOC is Eurocentric.

I'm not the only one with this opinion. In fact, I don't recall really discussing the Eurocentrism of the IOC before this thread and would be saying the exact same thing if the tables were turned, like it is in the case of Los Angeles. But please, tell me more...

It seems to me you like to discuss the "Eurocentrism" of everything on this highly America centric forum, which makes it all that more annoying. A couple of weeks ago it was a list of restaurants that had 15 American restaurants (by far the most of any country) out of a 100 listed that was too Eurocentric for your taste. Now it's the IOC that according to you probably shouldn't give any more Olympics to a European city at least not untill San Diego has had them. All major European cities have had the Olympics already afterall. So please DON'T tell me anything more about supposed Eurocentrism amids all this US centrism I read here all day every day.



I hope New York will get its Olympics in the near future if that's what the people of New York want and if they make a good bid. But Paris and Shanghai and Istanbul and Buenos Aires and dozens of other cities have as much "right" to make a bid and to get the Games. Personally I rather have the Games go to cities and countries like the US that have the ability to organize such large events without corruption (*cough*not Russia*cough*) and that have democracy and a decent human rights record. I'm still 50/50 on whether having the Games in places like Beijing is a good thing or a bad thing.

[ue]

Originally Posted by SHiRO

Very nice, but that's 10 posts AFTER the post I was responding to...

Yeah, so? Do I need to lay out all my cards at once? The conversation didn't call for me to delve into that yet.

Then why are you focussing on the US? The US already had 4 Summer Olympics.

I'm merely focusing on the US because although other places that have yet to have even one city host the Olympics are just as, if not more deserving of finally being able to host the Summer Olympics, there are many, many more European cities that have hosted the games than American ones, despite both having many highly developed or developing cities over 100 years ago. You can't tell me New York, Philly, Boston, or Chicago would've been incapable of hosting the Olympics in 1908 or 1912.

There are ten other cities all over the world for every one mentioned here that are just as capable and probable to host an Olympics.
Why are you bringing up San Diego over Istanbul? It shows YOU are US centric instead of your claim that the IOC is Eurocentric.

Why did I have a feeling you'd latch onto the San Diego part? Should've just skipped that one because it detracts from the others, but I included it because it has bid numerous times and does have a great setting for the games, not to mention being a large, fairly well known city. But it is the last of the US contenders that I think should be hosting, because places like SF and DC are far more deserving in my opinion. I also think Istanbul should host the games over San Diego, for the record, not that I said anything to the contrary of that previously.

It seems to me you like to discuss the "Eurocentrism" of everything on this highly America centric forum, which makes it all that more annoying. A couple of weeks ago it was a list of restaurants that had 15 American restaurants (by far the most of any country) out of a 100 listed that was too Eurocentric for your taste. Now it's the IOC that according to you probably shouldn't give any more Olympics to a European city at least not untill San Diego has had them. All major European cities have had the Olympics already afterall. So please DON'T tell me anything more about supposed Eurocentrism amids all this US centrism I read here all day every day.

Oh, because I've brought up Eurocentrism twice in the past it's all of a sudden my schtick to defend "poor America"? You've really got me all figured out, haven't you?

For the record, I haven't shied away from criticizing the US in the past either as it is far from a perfect place. I've gotten into silly Toronto vs Houston arguments in the past because apparently Houston is equal to or greater than Toronto in international clout or whatever. I've been vehemently against Los Angeles bidding for the Summer Olympics for a third time, too, even though I think it could be a fantastic host. I'm not even American, what benefit is there for me to be America-centric? If anything, I'm Canada-centric.

I hope New York will get its Olympics in the near future if that's what the people of New York want and if they make a good bid. But Paris and Shanghai and Istanbul and Buenos Aires and dozens of other cities have as much "right" to make a bid and to get the Games. Personally I rather have the Games go to cities and countries like the US that have the ability to organize such large events without corruption (*cough*not Russia*cough*) and that have democracy and a decent human rights record. I'm still 50/50 on whether having the Games in places like Beijing is a good thing or a bad thing.

Every city technically has the "right" to bid to get the games, but I can still not think it's right that they are chosen. I can disagree, can I not? Since I seem to need to lay all my cards out for 100% clarity, I think Shanghai, Istanbul, and Buenos Aires are all very deserving of hosting the Summer Olympics. In fact I think I put Istanbul as my No. 3 choice for 2024, ahead of any US city sans NYC. China is another country I think is underrepresented by the Olympics (no, I'm not being Sino-centric) thought it makes a bit more sense than the US because China has only been advancing and building up great cities for about 30 years in recent history.

Also, I would prefer a different French city to host the games and wouldn't have any objections to that, either. The problem is that Paris is probably the only French city large enough to support the Summer Olympics. A lot of European countries only have one or maybe two options if they're lucky, unlike the US which is a large, vast country, which is why it's kind of pointless bringing up the fact that it is one of the countries that the Olympics have frequented the most. It still fails per capita.

Further, I'd actually like to see more Central/Eastern European cities host the games rather than cities like London and Paris receiving them for a second time. I'm not against other European cities hosting the games, contrary to what you think, I just don't like seeing duplication when so many other great cities haven't hosted, including an Alpha world city. Cities like Istanbul, Warsaw, Vienna, Copenhagen, Frankfurt, St. Petersburg, Dublin, Madrid, Milan, Sofia, and Kiev would definitely work if the IOC wants to host in Europe.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by aquablue

I think LA has no chance against NYC if they bid, neither does DC or Boston, or anywhere friggin else on the continent.

This is why the USOC keeps shooting themselves in the foot. They pick American cities they like, not American cities that foreigners view positively.

Remember the IOC members from all over the world VOTE for the games.

I actually think Los Angeles has a better chance of hosting a third Olympics than New York does of getting a first.

Los Angeles is not associated with what outsiders view as American greed and corporate ruthlessness. New York on the other hand, is the poster child of US power and the strength. DC is another one..good luck ever getting a games there. Chicago I feel had the same issue but to a lesser degree.

Los Angeles is almost universally liked abroad in my experience and everyone knows a lot about LA and the celebrities who live there, and the city is laced with beautiful beaches and palm trees and the weather is perfect and everyone is beautiful--whether all of that is true or not is neither here nor there, that's the perception.

So I think the IOC should pick cities that aren't threatening to the outside and are seen in a very positive light abroad and has a strong positive image.

Los Angeles, Miami, Las Vegas(heat notwithstanding), San Francisco, if Honolulu were bigger I'd say it would be PERFECT.

That is, if we want to win. Otherwise we can put up New York but I don't think New York would win against Durban(Africa), Doha(Middle East) or Istanbul(was denied for 2020).

Miami for example I could see actually competing against any of those stronger than New York because Miami would get a ton of votes from Latin America and maybe even Europe.

But I digress.

[jd3189]

^^^New York is kinda a mixed bag globally. Despite Wall Street and the boasting of American economic strength,power, and freedom, NYC also represents the world in its collection of cultures, arts, sports, music,etc from all over the world and from the US itself. It represents the very bad but also the very good, and if the Olympic bid would focus on the very good, NYC has a great chance of being a host. You could also say the same for LA, which also has its very bad aspects in the form of narcissistic celebrities, gangs,etc, but also has great weather, Hollywood and cinema as a great industry, and other great cultural history and beauty.


After NYC, LA, DC, Chi, and SF, I would like Miami to host. South Florida could use the boost to become more globally known. The city might suffer financially though if it can't find the money to fund the games. It would take the efforts of the whole state of Florida and probably the country but it would be worth it if long-term benefits come from it.

[ue]

^ What aspects of New York are "very bad"?

[Serenade]

Originally Posted by Crawford

So Paris has it "locked up" for 2024 and LA "sewn up" for 2032. I'll bet on Harbin for 2052, I guess? Makes as much sense as the other wild guesses.

People were really shocked at the selections for three of the last four Olympics, and absolutely stunned at the last World Cup selection. Unless you're the one bribing the committee with hookers, cash and blow, I doubt anyone knows who will be chosen.

Of course we don't know for certainty until the voting is complete. The odds favor Paris though.

... if Paris even bids for 2024. I don't think it's a sure thing yet; I thought I read somewhere that the French NOC wants to analyze why their Annecy 2018 Winter Olympic bid failed, before they proceed with a Paris bid for 2024

Paris intentionally did not bid in 2016 and 2020. They most likely will for 2024 and go all in for the centennial of the Games of the VIII Olympiad.

[texcolo]

If they have the Summer Olympics in Texas, they need to hold it in the Spring or Fall, the Texas heat will kill the athletes.

[PhillyRising]

I thought I would toss this out there since I have not seen anyone else from Philly mention it.

NBC just extended their rights to broadcast the Olympic games in the United States through 2032.

NBC is now owned by Comcast.....based in Philadelphia. The Roberts Family who founded and still owns a chunk of Comcast are well known Philadelphia boosters.

The IOC gets most of its revenue from American TV Rights. Brian Roberts could say that since his company is shelling out all that money, that maybe the USOC and IOC should pay him back by awarding the game to his hometown.

We already have a world class centralized sports complex. Revitalization is heading up North Broad Street. They could easily build an Olympic Stadium on the Temple Campus (that could be retro fitted and downsized for Temple football which wants out of The Linc)...which is served by subway and has a regional rail station that is served by many of the train lines. They could build the Olympic Village there too that would turn into affordable housing and continue the revitalization of North Philadelphia.

Philadelphia is well suited to host the game and we might just have the clout to get the bid.

Why not us?

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by SHiRO

It doesn't work that way. It may be an unwritten rule that no consecutive Olympics should be in the same part of the world, there's no such thing as an Olympics "being due". There are many factors that play a role in the bidding process.

The IOC says there is no such rule, but history would show that there might as well be. They much prefer to spread it around and people are right to speculate that it will likely go to this continent or that based on where it hasn't been for a while.

[jd3189]

Originally Posted by ue

^ What aspects of New York are "very bad"?

None for me and a good chunk of the world I hope other than the bad aspects of many US cities like some trash in the streets and corruption in the police and transportation departments.

However, for the part of the world who condoned the events of 9/11, representing American economic imperialism through Wall Street and banks that take advantage of people here and overseas is enough to warrant an obstacle as diamondpark explained. When people associate NYC with the American imperialism that may have negatively affected them, that has the potential to be a "very bad" thing. We know all too well we can't easily change people's opinions. However, it's possible to change that through this bid.

[jd3189]

Originally Posted by PhillyRising

I thought I would toss this out there since I have not seen anyone else from Philly mention it.

NBC just extended their rights to broadcast the Olympic games in the United States through 2032.

NBC is now owned by Comcast.....based in Philadelphia. The Roberts Family who founded and still owns a chunk of Comcast are well known Philadelphia boosters.

The IOC gets most of its revenue from American TV Rights. Brian Roberts could say that since his company is shelling out all that money, that maybe the USOC and IOC should pay him back by awarding the game to his hometown.

We already have a world class centralized sports complex. Revitalization is heading up North Broad Street. They could easily build an Olympic Stadium on the Temple Campus (that could be retro fitted and downsized for Temple football which wants out of The Linc)...which is served by subway and has a regional rail station that is served by many of the train lines. They could build the Olympic Village there too that would turn into affordable housing and continue the revitalization of North Philadelphia.

Philadelphia is well suited to host the game and we might just have the clout to get the bid.

Why not us?

I wouldn't mind the games happening in Philly either. As long as the city never hosted before it's good. I know the IOC can do whatever they want, but if they should encourage more cities to participate instead of the same lot that had them before.

[dc_denizen]

^ Didn't London, the other world center of global capitalism, just hold the Olympics? the same London that once ruled the entire world through an imperial system?

You are right though that Latin Americans and lefty Europeans would prefer to deny the awarding of the Olympics to the US because of their political views. Thus I believe Toronto will be awarded a summer Olympics before a US city is.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

^ Didn't London, the other world center of global capitalism, just hold the Olympics? the same London that once ruled the entire world through an imperial system?

Yes but the choices were between London, Paris and New York.

New York was eliminated FIRST even though they had a glitzy campaign that showcased the city's internationalism and beckoned all of the clichés that we associate with the city. Even though everyone knew NYC was the only one of the 3 that never hosted a games and even though New York had the most amazing stadium plan and venue scheme and despite all the buzz, NYC was defeated in the first round leaving London and Paris, two cities that had each hosted the games TWICE

And by the way, Tokyo will be hosting it's THIRD Summer Olympic games in 2020.

So they aren't shy about giving the same cities the games again while spurning cities that have never hosted---just look at New York

After looking at the list of host cities, I get the feeling that the 2024 games are Africa's to lose.

Durban, South Africa is a city that seems to be in the running, not to mention Nairobi.

I think Cape Town would be incredible. I've lived there and love the place. Johannesburg is another city I'd love to see host a games. Doha is also in the running from the Middle East.

So I think there are some major hurdles for New York by way of the attitude of foreigners about the US and also the fact that Africa has never hosted an Olympic games.

Rio in 2016 will be the first time South America has hosted the games and so perhaps the IOC will be partial to an African city for 2024 since they awarded Tokyo 2020.

Obviously no one has a crystal ball but these are just my observations.

[ue]

^ Quick clarification: Tokyo has only hosted the games once, not twice. 2020 will be its second go.

Originally Posted by jd3189

None for me and a good chunk of the world I hope other than the bad aspects of many US cities like some trash in the streets and corruption in the police and transportation departments.

However, for the part of the world who condoned the events of 9/11, representing American economic imperialism through Wall Street and banks that take advantage of people here and overseas is enough to warrant an obstacle as diamondpark explained. When people associate NYC with the American imperialism that may have negatively affected them, that has the potential to be a "very bad" thing. We know all too well we can't easily change people's opinions. However, it's possible to change that through this bid.

What Europeans or Asians condoned the events of 9/11? Seriously? These are the people who make up the IOC, not Islamist extremists in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia. And if they were, then Europe also wouldn't be hosting any games, nor any democratic nation.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by ue

^ Quick clarification: Tokyo has only hosted the games once, not twice. 2020 will be its second go.

Right. And thank you for noticing that. What I meant was Tokyo has been awarded the summer games 3 times.

1940, 1964 and now 2020.

What Europeans or Asians condoned the events of 9/11? Seriously? These are the people who make up the IOC, not Islamist extremists in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia. And if they were, then Europe also wouldn't be hosting any games, nor any democratic nation.

What does 9/11 have to do with this?

The US has had less than amicable relations with many areas of the world and that was long before 9/11 for a host of reasons--be it political, economic or due to social/cultural differences.

Speaking of 9/11. The 2012 games were awarded in 2004 fresh off the heels of 9/11 and while the US may have wanted the games to show that we are resilient and that NYC is able to bounce back after such a tragedy, that sentiment was NOT shared by the IOC as the members booted New York out first in vote among the final 3 cities.

[ue]

^ I brought up 9/11 specifically because it is in the post I quoted. I wouldn't have brought it up otherwise.

[dimondpark]

Oh okay.

Anyway, because it's been so long I needed to get a refresher of the 2012 bid process.

So it was London, Paris, Madrid, New York and Moscow in that order as far as how they were eliminated in the bid process, London of course being the last man standing.

Round 1
London 22 votes
Paris 21 votes
Madrid 20 votes
New York 19 votes
Moscow 15 votes

Round 2
Madrid 32 votes
London 27 votes
Paris 25 votes
New York 16 votes

^how the hell does New York actually lose votes in round 2 when there are more votes to go around? Well perhaps 3 of those who voted for New York in round 1 were trying to bump off Moscow and then after Moscow lost they voted for somewhere else besides NYC.

New York didn't get A SINGLE vote from the 15 that voted for Moscow, which is telling.

Round 3
London 39 votes
Paris 33 votes
Madrid 31 votes

Round 4
London 54 votes
Paris 50 Votes

[BoiseAirport]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Yes but the choices were between London, Paris and New York.

EDIT: Nevermind, you addressed it before I finished my post.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by BoiseAirport

Don't forget Madrid and Moscow. Moscow, not New York, was eliminated first. It's also worth noting the difference at that point between London and New York was only 3 votes. The 2012 bidding process was one of the closest and most competitive ever up to that point.

In the second round, Madrid (who had never hosted before) led the vote count. It was in that round that New York was eliminated, after which many of the voters who chose New York gave their votes to London who led from there on out.

Thank you, I corrected myself in the post above yours.

It's been so long I forgot the other 2 cities.