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View Poll Results: Which route should be twinned? Quelle route doit-on élargir?
11 8 20.51%
17 31 79.49%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1461  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2020, 1:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
After ~20 days, I'm finally done with preliminary freeway route search for the 11 between Nipigon and North Bay (987 km) <simply because swimmer_spe made me do it>. It's in the link in my signature.
Now, time to sleep.
So, now that you have done it and see the challenges that each route has, what would you build in what order?
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  #1462  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2020, 12:13 AM
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Political Considerations

Let's do 17 between Nipigon and SSM first, to show our determination in getting this done!
Nah, I'm just kidding.

I have a lot of political assumptions built into this, so I will go along that line of thinking.
Let's say that we start in the middle of year 2022 and that the government actually cares about 17.

Case I: PC majority
(1) 417 will progress towards Deep River because one can technically still make a case with AADT up to that point (7400 at Deep River). From there to Renfrew - Nipissing Boundary (2900), it really depends on Yakabuski's sway.
(2) If Nipissing stays blue, North Bay Route 6 will be built in conjunction with the freeway from North Bay to Renfrew - Nipissing Boundary. If the riding goes red instead, only the latter will get built.
(3) If Kenora - Rainy stays blue, 17 will be twinned to Kenora. Otherwise, nothing will be done.
(4) Thunder Bay - Nipigon Corridor will keep seeing actions until every bit of it is twinned (yes, even with a Liberal safe seat).
(5) Yakabuski may use his sway to bridge the gap between Renfrew - Nipissing Boundary and Deep River, finally bringing 417 to NEO. Yay, we already did it for Toronto - North Bay, and now we will have done it for Ottawa - North Bay too.
(6) PC won't do stuff for NDP safe seats, as is evidenced by the sudden cancellation of Hamilton LRT.

Case II: Liberal majority
(1) Thunder Bay - Nipigon Corridor will see actions (including Thunder Bay Expressway in the city proper).
(2) If Thunder Bay - Atikokan returns red, there may be action even between Port Arthur and Shabaqua Corners via Kakabeka Falls. Otherwise, nothing happens.
(3) If Sudbury goes red, we may finally see SW and SE Bypasses twinned and Denlou Bypass built. If it goes orange, it stays as is.
(4) If North Bay goes red, Route 6 will be done. Otherwise, there's nothing.
(5) 17 between Sudbury and Markstay will be twinned.
(6) If SSM goes red, there's a very slim chance that 17 will be twinned from Sudbury to there. It's very slim, though.
(7) Liberals don't care about NDP safe seats north of North Bay.

Case III: Liberal minority with NDP holding balance of power (or the other way around)
This one is the easiest.
(1) Highway 17 from Denlou to Markstay will be done first.
(2) If North Bay goes red, Route 6 will be done. Otherwise, there's nothing.
(3) The entire 176 km of Shabaqua Corners - Nipigon Corridor (via Kakabeka Falls and Port Arthur) will see action.
(4) Highway 11 may actually be twinned from North Bay toward Temiskaming Shores.
(5) If Kenora - Rainy River returns orange, Highway 17 will be twinned towards Kenora. Otherwise, nothing will be done.
(6) Highway 417 will be snarled at Arnprior for the next while...

I'm not at all confident in my projection, by the way.
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My Proposal of TCH Twinning in Northern Ontario
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  #1463  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2020, 1:33 AM
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I am trying to look things up in the catalogue of Pembroke Library.
https://pembroke.insigniails.com/Lib...4&i=93236&ti=0
Planning for 17 between Ottawa and North Bay was actually done back in 1969. This should include the section between Petawawa and Rolphton which I had to guess and that from Rolphton to Renfrew - Nipissing Boundary which I drew up.
https://pembroke.insigniails.com/Lib...&i=112242&ti=0
Then there's 17 from Haley Station to Meath Hill.
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  #1464  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2020, 3:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
As we discussed, I feel it is missing something to or around Timmins.
Highway 144 Timmins Bypass is now up on the map in my signature.

@Loco101 It might interest you.
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  #1465  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2020, 3:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
Highway 144 Timmins Bypass is now up on the map in my signature.

@Loco101 It might interest you.
WOW, if only that were true.
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  #1466  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2020, 4:07 AM
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WOW, if only that were true.
if only anything drawn on that map were true...
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  #1467  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2020, 4:09 AM
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WOW, if only that were true.
He wasn't even going to put it in. I told him that Timmins should have a divided highway to it if 11 is 4 lanes.
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  #1468  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2020, 4:38 AM
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He wasn't even going to put it in. I told him that Timmins should have a divided highway to it if 11 is 4 lanes.
Don’t put me in a bad spotlight like that. I did mention Timmins Bypass from time to time. When I finished drawing up the freeway between North Bay to Cochrane, I still needed to do the same between Longlac and Cochrane, so Timmins Bypass took a back seat.
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  #1469  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2020, 1:51 AM
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https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.bayt...way-17-2757979

Kids are going kookoo because of the lockdown, I suppose.
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  #1470  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2020, 2:22 PM
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https://obj.ca/article/regional/otta...ts-new-heights
What the heck, the housing price in Renfrew is already going up...
If I end up working in Upper Ottawa Valley, I guess I will have to settle in Cobden or further west. At that point, I may as well live near work...
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  #1471  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2020, 2:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
https://obj.ca/article/regional/otta...ts-new-heights
What the heck, the housing price in Renfrew is already going up...
If I end up working in Upper Ottawa Valley, I guess I will have to settle in Cobden or further west. At that point, I may as well live near work...
We are seeing the housing bubble moving around. For an example, Her in the Sudbury area, things are stupid... I just sold my house for almost double what I bought it for 4 years ago.

Covid is showing people that live in condos that they are not the best choice. If all you need is an internet connection to do your job, a $500k condo isn't as good as a $500k waterfront lot.
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  #1472  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2020, 4:06 PM
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$500K is still a lot for first-time buyers though. If this continues to get worse, I actually can't rule out settling in Mattawa. In that case, forget about proximity to Ottawa...
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  #1473  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2020, 4:38 PM
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$500K is still a lot for first-time buyers though. If this continues to get worse, I actually can't rule out settling in Mattawa. In that case, forget about proximity to Ottawa...
The thing to understand is that prices will bounce around between now and when you buy. Also, depending on your income, you might be able to afford a house where you want. And then there is the possibility of buying land and building on it.
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  #1474  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2020, 2:12 AM
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Let me try something:


Woot I just posted my first photo ever all these 3 years.

Edit: I can't make it smaller. I'm already setting img=0.25...
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  #1475  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2020, 2:15 AM
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Let me try something:


Woot I just posted my first photo ever all these 3 years.
And now you have learned so much more.
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  #1476  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2020, 2:41 AM
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Thanks.
See? Even the top-right corner of the photo says Highway 417. (JK that's the profile picture of my Gmail account.)
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  #1477  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2020, 9:43 PM
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I totally forgot about this:
https://keephwy17north.ca/
So I actually went back to check my drawings. Thankfully most of it is fine. *phew*
Immediately east of Rush Bay Road, I have the SB lanes on the south side of the current roadbed, but that's because it seems impossible to twin on the north side of the current alignment.

Edit: Then I was like, "Screw it", and added another proposal.
Edit 2: 15 km of realignment outside of SSM - North Bay Corridor, though. The cheapness in me is screaming "NO!"
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My Proposal of TCH Twinning in Northern Ontario
Disclaimer: Most of it is pure pie in the sky, so there's no need to be up in the arm about it.

Last edited by Dengler Avenue; Oct 27, 2020 at 10:28 PM.
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  #1478  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2020, 3:41 PM
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Some fantasy from last night:
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  #1479  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2020, 4:14 AM
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Thoughts on Using HCR ROW for “417”

As many of you may know, Gennesee & Wyoming are ceasing operation of HCR come December 18, so I emailed MTO:
Quote:
To Whom It Might Concern:
With Huron Central Rail slated to cease operation this December, is there any chance that M.T.O. will purchase the ROW from Genesee & Wyoming for future ONR expansion or for a divided freeway between Sault Sainte Marie and Sudbury?
Thanks.
Best,
(My name)
What do you guys think of the idea of using HCR ROW for freeway expansion? Personally, even I do have a bit of issue with such, but if Gennesee & Wyoming keeps running HCR to the ground, MTO may as well acquire the ROW, rehabilitate it and put 417 on there. This will mean minimal negotiation with FN.
In SSM, it means a direct freeway link to both the port and the border crossing, and not having to deal with Rankins 15D, at all.
In Blind River, it means only taking minimal amount of land from Mississagi 8 for freeway expansion (instead of what I have right now).
It’s the same thing for Serpent River.
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My Proposal of TCH Twinning in Northern Ontario
Disclaimer: Most of it is pure pie in the sky, so there's no need to be up in the arm about it.
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  #1480  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2020, 3:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
As many of you may know, Gennesee & Wyoming are ceasing operation of HCR come December 18, so I emailed MTO:

What do you guys think of the idea of using HCR ROW for freeway expansion? Personally, even I do have a bit of issue with such, but if Gennesee & Wyoming keeps running HCR to the ground, MTO may as well acquire the ROW, rehabilitate it and put 417 on there. This will mean minimal negotiation with FN.
In SSM, it means a direct freeway link to both the port and the border crossing, and not having to deal with Rankins 15D, at all.
In Blind River, it means only taking minimal amount of land from Mississagi 8 for freeway expansion (instead of what I have right now).
It’s the same thing for Serpent River.
I think when they decide to widen the 401 they should just rip up the Lakeshore East tracks.

If you think the FN will ignore it, just look at what is happened with the E&N on Vancouver Island.
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