Western Canada. Love it, hate it or indifferent? - Page 3

Drybrain · #41 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 2:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

The residential architecture in prairie cities is impressive. Large lots with front lawns on wide, tree-lined streets - often with large trees on both sides of the sidewalk, which is set back from the street. Even the lower-class neighbourhoods typically have this design. All of these things are associated with extreme wealth in Old St. John's - most houses open directly onto the sidewalk, which in turn is directly adjacent to the street. There are no trees out front, only in the central courtyards of the rowhouse blocks.

This was my street in Winnipeg. That's my Civic,

And that's a lower-middle class neighbourhood. The equivalent class of people in St. John's live in neighbourhoods like this:

The stucco thing always confused me. To me, it looks unfinished. It looks like fire-retardant foam or spray insulation and they just never go around the putting the clapboard or stone on top.

To be fair to St. John's, that street pictured would be a hell of a lot better looking with some proper cedar shingles and a bit of decorative trim. That's one thing that's really struck me about Eastern Canada neighbourhoods: the old housing stock in lower-class areas often resembles nothing more than a bunch of boxy shacks all clustered together, like this. But once an area gentrifies, the exact same structures are oftem renovated to look like this. Night and day. So maybe that street in St. John's will look like a charming mini-San Francisco in ten or fifteen years.

Of course, your point is well taken that the lots and lawns, etc., are more generous in the Winnipeg example. Of course, urban density! That's one thing that is rarer in western cities, so it's interesting to see how they are (and in some case aren't) coming to terms with that as they grow, especially the really rapidly growing cities in SK and AB.

SignalHillHiker · #42 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 2:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drybrain

To be fair to St. John's, that street pictured would be a hell of a lot better looking with some proper cedar shingles and a bit of decorative trim. That's one thing that's really struck me about Eastern Canada neighbourhoods: the old housing stock in lower-class areas often resembles nothing more than a bunch of boxy shacks all clustered together, like this. But once an area gentrifies, the exact same structures are oftem renovated to look like this. Night and day. So maybe that street in St. John's will look like a charming mini-San Francisco in ten or fifteen years.

Of course, your point is well taken that the lots and lawns, etc., are more generous in the Winnipeg example. Of course, urban density! That's one thing that is rarer in western cities, so it's interesting to see how they are (and in some case aren't) coming to terms with that as they grow, especially the really rapidly growing cities in SK and AB.

Gentrification is just beginning on Spencer Street (the example above). Some of the houses are already more colourful than pictured on Street View. But it is still very much lower-middle class. A blend of elderly, long-time residents, halfway houses for people with mental illness, rental houses (including several with numerous units), young profressionals, immigrant families, etc.

Here's an example of somewhere the process has been completed. Victoria Street was worse than Spencer Street until a generation ago, and now look at it. Of course, it's not as genteel as the Halifax example. I'm not sure exactly what it is but there's something rough about even the most refined neighbourhoods in St. John's, no matter how much you clean it up.

Yeah, I did find the front lawns created a very suburban feel. It also made it feel unnatural to spend time in the street. It created this sense of... private, as opposed to public. I can't really explain it. But you walk down Spencer Street, and stop for five-minute conversations with the old women leaning out their second-floor bathroom windows having a smoke... you just wouldn't do that on Rosedale, even though folks were more or less the same.

Razor · #43 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 2:25 PM**

As far as trips go, I know I'm guilty of looking East and south rather than west.You can basically do an extended 4 or 5 day weekend trip to any of the Eastern seaboard cities or maritimes by car or really cheap flight. Both NYC and Philadelphia were roughly an 8-10 hour car ride through really scenic Pennsylvania countryside. QC is maybe a 5.0 hour road trip.I just can't see myself getting up for a flight to Banff or anywhere other than the West coast or overseas for that matter..It's just not on my radar..Not to say that I would pass up an opportunity to visit the prairies via a work meeting or wedding though.I would look forward to something like that if an opportunity were to arise.

bikegypsy · #44 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 2:36 PM**

I've never been to western Canada but would love to visit. I lived for one year in northern California and am absolutely bonkers about it. I imagine BC having a similar feel. I'd love to visit the mountainous regions of both BC and Alberta. I'd love to also visit the Yukon.... The landscapes look absolutely stunning.

Boris2k7 · #45 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 3:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor

As far as trips go, I know I'm guilty of looking East and south rather than west.You can basically do an extended 4 or 5 day weekend trip to any of the Eastern seaboard cities or maritimes by car or really cheap flight. Both NYC and Philadelphia were roughly an 8-10 hour car ride through really scenic Pennsylvania countryside. QC is maybe a 5.0 hour road trip.I just can't see myself getting up for a flight to Banff or anywhere other than the West coast or overseas for that matter..It's just not on my radar..Not to say that I would pass up an opportunity to visit the prairies via a work meeting or wedding though.I would look forward to something like that if an opportunity were to arise.

It's more or less the same thing in the West, due to geography. An awful lot of people in BC and AB have never been east of SK, except to catch a connecting flight at Pearson. Flying to Eastern Canada is expensive and usually not seen as much of a destination. L.A. is closer than Toronto and the round trip to and from the latter will set me back almost twice as much. And if we are talking about by car... it takes 3 or 4 hours just to get to the border. Lots of Albertans vacation either in Montana or the BC interior as a result.

Now, having said that, I have personally been to the East a number of times. I'll probably be heading back out there again this summer.

kw5150 · #46 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 3:38 PM**

Anyone who has not visited the Okanagan region of Canada is missing out. Same goes for:

The Icefields Parkway (Jasper to Banff)
A hot, dry prairie drive
Victoria and Vancouver
Waterton National Park and Milk River
Anywhere in the Rockies
The Peace River
Edmonton is cool!
Calgary is fun.
Manitoba in the Summer

Im looking forward to visiting the eastern half of the country, even if it seems like everyone just argues all the time.

Chadillaccc · #47 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 3:39 PM**

I agree Boris, but the difference is, half of Albertans and 1/3 of British Columbians were either born back East or are 2nd/3rd generation westerners, so still with tons of family back East.

Razor · #48 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 3:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris2k7

It's more or less the same thing in the West, due to geography. An awful lot of people in BC and AB have never been east of SK, except to catch a connecting flight at Pearson. Flying to Eastern Canada is expensive and usually not seen as much of a destination. L.A. is closer than Toronto and the round trip to and from the latter will set my back almost twice as much. And if we are talking about by car... it takes 3 or 4 hours just to get to the border. Lots of Albertans vacation either in Montana or the BC interior as a result.

Yes exactly..We live in such a vast country, that we are bound by our geography..Our flight to Vegas a few years back was fairly extensive, whereas it isn't too bad for anyone living in Alberta..The reverse is true for anyone in Alberta wanting to visit Washington or Boston, which are basically short skips from here. Visiting LA and even Vancouver would both be major flights and a few time zones from here. I think England may be closer, or at least not that much further.

SignalHillHiker · #49 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 3:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor

Yes exactly..We live in such a vast country, that we are bound by our Geography..Our flight to Vegas a few years back was fairly extensive, whereas it's not too bad for anyone in Alberta..The reverse is true for anyone In Alberta wanting to visit Washington, or Boston which are basically short skips from here. Visiting LA and even Vancouver would both be major flights and a few time zones from here. I think England may be closer.

I imagine it is. If Vancouver was located where Dublin, Ireland is then St. John's would be located at Astana, Kazakhstan.

Here's the distance from St. John's to various Canadian and international cities. We're closer to Rome, Italy, than Victoria, B.C.:

Chadillaccc · #50 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 3:52 PM**

Yeah, but St. John's is around 2000 km east of the major population zone of East central Canada.

SignalHillHiker · #51 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 3:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Yeah, but St. John's is around 2000 km east of the major population zone of East central Canada.

Yeah, you're right:

Ottawa to Vancouver: 3543
Ottawa to St. John's: 1769
Ottawa to Dublin: 4905

Toronto to Vancouver: 3360
Toronto to St. John's: 2111
Toronto to Dublin: 5257

Central Canada is much more East than it seems in my mind.

SignalHillHiker · #52 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 4:04 PM**

And just for laughs:

Vancouver to Tokyo: 7555 km
Vancouver to Panama City: 6032 km
Vancouver to St. John's: 5010 km
Vancouver to Miami: 4509 km
Vancouver to Halifax: 4433 km
Vancouver to Honolulu: 4360 km
Vancouver to Mexico City: 3950 km
Vancouver to New York City: 3908 km

HomeInMyShoes · #53 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 4:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Well, I wrote another book. Sorry.
I can't relate, really, to living away from the ocean. What the prairies inspire in those who live there... I just can't connect to it. But I do see the beauty. I can remember watching trucks roar down dirt roads through fields of flax flowers at sunset. There's a romance in it - but it's just completely foreign to me.

If Canada was some fantasy novel, the prairies and the Rock would definitely be two completely different people. Dwarves and Hobbits, or whatever else. But it was nice to experience. I wish I had known going in that it would have an end and I'd eventually be back home where I belong... I could have enjoyed it more then, I bet.

Anyhow, yeah... mostly positive.

I've lived in Regina, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Edmonton and St. John's within Canada. I've spent a lot of time in Calgary and Montreal to boot.

I love Western Canada, should it be separate? No. Canada is about regions and how crazy big and diverse our country is. It's already too split up for projects and talk. We often don't see developments outside of Toronto because lots of groups stay within their subforum. And that's a shame. Sure it would be big and messy, but I like that. I learn by reading about the developments and issues within all regions not just mine. The concept that I people get offended if I bring up Winnipeg within a Regina thread with respect to an issue at hand is frankly stupid. If we don't want to learn from other regions than we are stupid and deserve the lousy outcome we may get.

rousseau · #54 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 4:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spliff

I've lived overseas for 15 years, and I am shocked how many central and eastern Canadians I meet who have the most ignorant and discriminatory views towards Alberta...

Yawn. I lived overseas for six years and met numerous insufferable Canadians from the prairies who never failed to find an opportunity to discuss in-depth how much they resented Toronto and/or the "east." And, predictably enough as these things go, some of the coolest Canadians I met were from, you guessed it...Toronto.

Some people are just not good people.

I went to university in Winnipeg and met my first long-term girlfriend there. I have indelible memories of the place. It features regularly in my dreams. I played my first gig as a drummer in a church basement there. Bought a motorcycle there. Crashed a motorcycle there. Discovered John Coltrane there (not literally). Did naughty things with said girlfriend all over town (literally). Was entranced by the big sky in the summer, and bewildered by the unmatched bleakness of the winter. Made lifelong friends I keep up with to this day, and I'm happy to overlook their inherent shortcomings as prairie people.

But aside from Winnipeg, I'm mostly indifferent to the west. It's too far away and not compelling enough to make the trip. I've done enough of the flat part, and there are better mountains in other places, with the added bonus of more interesting cities nearby. And we've got the least bad weather in a country with lousy weather (sorry, I'm not going to live in the middle of nowhere in the interior of BC for some comparably okay weather, hours and hours away from the nearest cities, cities that I wouldn't want to visit anyway). Just as kool feels grounded by spiral staircases, I'm stuck on Victorian shopfronts and brick houses with graceful porches in charming little towns, not to mention the teeming, quirky behemoth down the 401. And not to mention those very spiral staircases just five hours further down the 401/20.

I know this is verging into region vs. region territory, but you asked, so I'll say it: There's just so much here in the Windsor to Quebec City corridor, I can't imagine wanting to live anywhere else in the country. You know what I hear over and over again from friends and acquaintances who visit us from the west? "Wow, you guys have..." [insert various aspects of life here]. Obviously they're being polite and friendly, and obviously that doesn't mean they want to up sticks and move here, but still, the admiration is sincere.

Works for me. As does the fact that most of my extended family live nearby. Actually, that might explain why a lot of people are where they are. You think?

Martin Mtl · #55 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 4:26 PM**

I have never been west of Toronto other than in the US (California), but I would like to visit BC one day.

Chadillaccc · #56 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 4:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

I've lived in Regina, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Edmonton and St. John's within Canada. I've spent a lot of time in Calgary and Montreal to boot.

I love Western Canada, should it be separate? No. Canada is about regions and how crazy big and diverse our country is. It's already too split up for projects and talk. We often don't see developments outside of Toronto because lots of groups stay within their subforum. And that's a shame. Sure it would be big and messy, but I like that. I learn by reading about the developments and issues within all regions not just mine. The concept that I people get offended if I bring up Winnipeg within a Regina thread with respect to an issue at hand is frankly stupid. If we don't want to learn from other regions than we are stupid and deserve the lousy outcome we may get.

That's how I do as well. I try to post things about/from every region, not just Calgary. Especially Vancouver, since most Vancouver forumers stay in that section due to insane arguments/belittlements in the past.

Echoes · #57 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 5:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rousseau

Made lifelong friends I keep up with to this day, and I'm happy to overlook their inherent shortcomings as prairie people.

Could you expand on what you mean by this?

SignalHillHiker · #58 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 5:24 PM**

Hopefully he's just playing Spliff's Torontonian.

rousseau · #59 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 5:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echoes

Could you expand on what you mean by this?

I knew it. I just knew it. If this were the UK I wouldn't have to explain, like you're a five-year-old child, that that was a freaking joke. Because the endearment would have been obvious in the context.

North Americans suck at conversation. The Puritan legacy lives to this day. Nuance? Duality of meaning? Sophistication? Contextual inferences not SPELLED OUT SO EVERYONE CAN UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN?

Sorry, no. Speak plainly, son. Idle talk is of the devil.

Drybrain · #60 Posted **Apr 10, 2014, 5:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rousseau

North Americans suck at conversation. The Puritan legacy lives to this day. Nuance? Duality of meaning? Sophistication? Contextual inferences not SPELLED OUT SO EVERYONE CAN UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN?

No, the nuance/jokiness was lost due to your lack of tonal command. Also, your previous poncey/WASPish/Upper-Canadian-condescending-to-the-regions tendencies and declarations have made it not impossible to conceive that you might make such a statement.