High Speed Rail in Canada

[DHLawrence]

No matter what speed they use, that dotted route is definitely going to be used between Ottawa and Montreal. Nobody's going to take a high-speed train to Mirabel these days

[Elmira Guy]

Originally Posted by DHLawrence

No matter what speed they use, that dotted route is definitely going to be used between Ottawa and Montreal. Nobody's going to take a high-speed train to Mirabel these days

I was thinking the same thing.

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

By no means am I an expert, but I'd expect that Montreal-Ottawa would be the first phase for several reasons:

1. It is a much shorter distance, thus constituting less initial risk.
2. VIA already owns the track and right-of-way between the two cities permitting improvements without significant land acquisition.

The VIA owned track ends about 50km short of Montreal - although there is a virtually unused CSX line just south of where the VIA owned track ends that CSX obtained by way of Conrail after it was broken up and would probably part with for the loose change and lint in your pocket.

[DHLawrence]

Canada Southern (the line you speak of) would be a pretty good way to link London and Windsor by way of St Thomas. Wouldn't get the St Thomas station open again, but at least the trains would still be running.

http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/i...onrail-map.jpg

[Dmajackson]

I was doing some research on this and it turns out for international connections there are three lines planned for the US that could connect to us;

The North-East Line (in operation) connects the eastern seaboard and apparently there has been talk about connecting it to either Montreal or Toronto,

The Western Seaboard line is proposed to connect Vancouver to Portland,

and the Mid-West line could connect directly to the Windsor-Quebec Line.

Just in case anybody thinks connecting to the U.S. would be helpful.

[eemy]

I don't really understand why we focus on the French model for HSR instead of the German model. It seems to me that the German model (more incremental upgrades of existing lines) has a much greater chance of implementation here than the French model which would involve much greater initial investment.

[vid]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I don't really understand why we focus on the French model for HSR instead of the German model.

Canada has French speaking people, not German speaking people!!!

(I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that was the logic behind it. I wonder if they even know that German has high speed rail. Quick, someone tell them about the Shinkansen!!)

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

You're still not getting the fact that the proposed route does not follow the St. Lawrence river through Ontario:
from highspeedrail.ca

HSR would need dedicated ROWs and there are plenty of abandoned rail corridors that are easier to deal with than the overused lines along the seaway.

I don't think you get my point that it is a political decision, not entirely a practical one in the end. There are a multitude of reasons that Ottawa could be a branch off the line, and not on the main.

Since it is unlikely this will even go anywhere in the first place, Bytowners should guard against counting their chickens before the eggs are even laid.

I wonder who pays for the loan on the new Ottawa airport after traffic likely collapses?

[eemy]

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

I don't think you get my point that it is a political decision, not entirely a practical one in the end. There are a multitude of reasons that Ottawa could be a branch off the line, and not on the main.

Since it is unlikely this will even go anywhere in the first place, Bytowners should guard against counting their chickens before the eggs are even laid.

I wonder who pays for the loan on the new Ottawa airport after traffic likely collapses?

What does the Ottawa airport have to do with this? I wouldn't be surprised if there is a downturn in traffic, but the airport is well managed and I don't think they will have any problems managing their debt. FWIW, September traffic showed approximately 7.5% growth over last years traffic, a slight decrease in the growth over the summer, but pretty decent results none the less. The credit crisis really began to escalate in September, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac being taken over by the government on September 7, the month ending with the passage of the $700 billion bailout package on October 1. The traffic for October will be more enlightening, but I remain fairly optimistic. I don't have the numbers on hand to support this, but my understanding is that YOW has a relatively low percentage of VFR travel, the sort which would be most vulnerable to the economic slowdown. The biggest question mark is whether Air Canada will scale back its expansion from the last year.

Nevertheless, I don't really see how any of that changes the favourability of a Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto routing for HSR.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

There are a multitude of reasons that Ottawa could be a branch off the line, and not on the main.

Not the least of which seems to be, here at least, a barely-camouflaged anti-Ottawa sentiment trying to pass itself off as economic and practical logic.

[vid]

If you skipped Kingston and went straight to Ottawa then Montreal, it would be even quicker.

[SteelTown]

It's kinda a scary thought that everyone from Niagara to Oakville would have to go to Pearson to hop on the high-speed train. I avoid Pearson at all cost.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by vid

Canada has French speaking people, not German speaking people!!!

(I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that was the logic behind it. I wonder if they even know that German has high speed rail. Quick, someone tell them about the Shinkansen!!)

It probably has more to do with the fact that Bombardier has been a partner on some of the TGV projects in France, than anything regarding Canada and France having an official language in common.

[DHLawrence]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

It's kinda a scary thought that everyone from Niagara to Oakville would have to go to Pearson to hop on the high-speed train. I avoid Pearson at all cost.

I wonder if they could adjust the route to run Kitchener-Hamilton-Toronto, whether at Pearson or Union Station.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by kyle_olsen

I don't think you get my point that it is a political decision, not entirely a practical one in the end.

What's impractical about servicing a metropolitan population of over a million? The bulk of all corridor travel is between Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal and having one frequent train that does the distance instead of 3 is the most practical approach. If there is anything that can go later, it's the leg to Windsor.

[eemy]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It probably has more to do with the fact that Bombardier has been a partner on some of the TGV projects in France, than anything regarding Canada and France having an official language in common.

Bombardier has actually been a partner in developing the ICE-T, ICE-TD and ICE-3 since 1999.

[kitchener-lrt]

Originally Posted by vid

Canada has French speaking people, not German speaking people!!!

With the exception of Kitchener.

Originally Posted by SteelTown

It's kinda a scary thought that everyone from Niagara to Oakville would have to go to Pearson to hop on the high-speed train. I avoid Pearson at all cost.

The whole corridor that you mentioned, currently has good GO and VIA service. People could hop on the GO to Union, then transfer there.

Originally Posted by Acajack

It probably has more to do with the fact that Bombardier has been a partner on some of the TGV projects in France, than anything regarding Canada and France having an official language in common.

TGV projects have been handled mainly by Alstom. Bombardier has done extensive work with Siemens on the German ICE network.

Originally Posted by DHLawrence

I wonder if they could adjust the route to run Kitchener-Hamilton-Toronto, whether at Pearson or Union Station.

Union is a guaranteed stop. Pearson was mentioned in the last study.

[harls]

With all the talk of politics in this hypothetical situation, isn't it logical that a high speed train have connections through the capital of the country?

[GreatTallNorth2]

Anyone that knows anything about high speed rail knows that Toronto would not have 3 stops (Pearson, Toronto, East Toronto). Hello? That defeats the purpose of HIGH speed rail. The less stops the better - Windsor, London, Kitchener, Toronto, Kingston, Ottawa, Montreal and Q.C. Don't even think about adding another stop.

Toronto needs a direct line from downtown to Pearson or a better idea would be to build a new station in downtown Toronto for the Airport line and the high speed line. If London (England) can have 8-10 major train stations, Toronto can have two. London refurbished and invested major money in St. Pancreas just for high speed rail to Europe. Toronto should do the same for our new high speed line.

[le calmar]

If Kingston deserves a stop, then Trois-Rivières should have one too... Or not. I think they'd most likely skip these two cities.