Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3 - Page 223

Acajack · #**4441** Posted **Dec 1, 2020, 4:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

To be honest we're at the 'We think this is a ploy by Rogers' stage of stadium development - no plans, no renders, no ideal location. It seems much too early to be moaning about what the feds are or aren't doing. As of this stage there's nothing to make anyone think the feds will be giving money to a new Jays stadium.

I'm fine with federal dollars for an Olympics.

Yes. As one of the Q teams from the old days there's a strong effort to try and preserve the team.

It is. The Q is the highest level of hockey based solely in Quebec (I mean, it's technically the LNAH, but meh) so there's a lot of effort into supporting it and making it into a big deal. The Q is obviously seen as more domestic than the ECHL.

Though the ECHL is pro.

Acajack · #**4442** Posted **Dec 1, 2020, 4:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite

As far as I'm concerned, federal dollars shouldn't be spent on stadiums anywhere. Even if we're talking about Canada's joint World Cup bid, which is really the only situation you could justify spending at a federal level.

And the feds don't fund, unless as you say there is an "international" aspect to it.

Tim Hortons Field in Hamilton got federal money because it was a Pan-Am Games site.

BMO Field in Toronto got federal money at one point due to its designation as Canada's national soccer stadium I think.

Centre Vidéotron in Quebec City got no federal money, and neither did the new CFL stadiums in Winnipeg and Regina. I am pretty sure.

JHikka · #**4443** Posted **Dec 1, 2020, 4:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Though the ECHL is pro.

It's awful hockey to watch, though, and IIRC a large number of the players are Americans, so it's not even as if you're watching a bunch of good ol' local boys. I know Newfoundland picked up a few local players to satisfy that crowd.

I'm just remembering that UQTR's program is in T-R. They're probably telling the Q to get lost like UNB does in Fredericton.

Acajack · #**4444** Posted **Dec 1, 2020, 4:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

It's awful hockey to watch, though, and IIRC a large number of the players are Americans, so it's not even as if you're watching a bunch of good ol' local boys. I know Newfoundland picked up a few local players to satisfy that crowd. It says a lot that the Q is afraid of putting a team in T-R with Shawinigan nearby.

If the league rules and structure allow it, it's likely that the T-R club would try to have a significant number of Quebec players. Perhaps they'll try to lure some away from the LNAH? (No idea how the calibre compares between the two.)

There are 40 km between the Cataractes' rink in Shawinigan and the new rink in T-R.

Are any CHL clubs that close to one another? Maybe Windsor and a club in the Detroit suburbs (Plymouth)? Too lazy to check. But that's different with the border and all.

JHikka · #**4445** Posted **Dec 1, 2020, 4:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

If the league rules and structure allow it, it's likely that the T-R club would try to have a significant number of Quebec players. Perhaps they'll try to lure some away from the LNAH? (No idea how the calibre compares between the two.)

LNAH is if Slap Shot existed in real life. Their fans are from that era, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

There are 40 km between the Cataractes' rink in Shawinigan and the new rink in T-R.

Are any CHL clubs that close to one another? Maybe Windsor and a club in the Detroit suburbs (Plymouth)? Too lazy to check. But that's different with the border and all.

Gatineau & Ottawa. For a time Mississauga and Brampton were that close before the latter was punted off to North Bay.

jamincan · #**4446** Posted **Dec 1, 2020, 5:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

There are 40 km between the Cataractes' rink in Shawinigan and the new rink in T-R.

Are any CHL clubs that close to one another? Maybe Windsor and a club in the Detroit suburbs (Plymouth)? Too lazy to check. But that's different with the border and all.

Kitchener and Guelph are about 25km apart.

yveseluj · #**4447** Posted **Dec 1, 2020, 5:04 PM**

Not as close, but Regina & MJ are only ~65km apart as well.

Acajack · #**4448** Posted **Dec 1, 2020, 5:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

Gatineau & Ottawa. .

Duh! (smacks himself)

esquire · #**4449** Posted **Dec 1, 2020, 5:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

It is. The Q is the highest level of hockey based solely in Quebec (I mean, it's technically the LNAH, but meh) so there's a lot of effort into supporting it and making it into a big deal. The Q is obviously seen as more domestic than the ECHL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Though the ECHL is pro.

I remember when the Jets left in 96 there were a lot of hockey fans who were clamoring for a WHL team and were not thrilled with the IHL (later AHL) Moose.

Even though the IHL was pro, there was really no familiarity with the league as much of minor league hockey's history is centred in the northeastern US and not on the prairies. There were also no regional rivals... unlike the IHL/AHL heartland in the NE and Midwest, there were no local Toledo-Fort Wayne type rivalries for the Moose. So it was meaningless to many.

The WHL was way more culturally relevant, and there was also the perception that you were seeing the best young players out there (at least in terms of the ones from Western Canada/US) unlike the supposedly washed up scrubs in the IHL. But for whatever reason the WHL waited until Winnipeg had NHL and AHL teams before coming back here.

Anyway, I would imagine there would be a similar dynamic in TR... kind of a "what the hell is this ECHL, we wanted to play the Remparts" sort of reaction?

JHikka · #**4450** Posted **Dec 1, 2020, 6:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Anyway, I would imagine there would be a similar dynamic in TR... kind of a "what the hell is this ECHL, we wanted to play the Remparts" sort of reaction?

More or less. The Northern division of the ECHL won't be playing this year, but if it manages to stay intact post-COVID then T-R's nearest Canadian rivals are Newfoundland and Brampton, along with Adirondack, Maine, and Worcester south of the border. Surefire rivalries that will get people into seats.

The Q makes a lot more logical sense given the sheer number of teams nearby and T-R's central location within Quebec, but it's yet to really come together, and given the CHL's finances at the moment i'm really not sure if the Q is in any sort of expansion position. Perhaps relocation if one of the Q teams in smaller towns can't make a go of it.

EastVanMark · #**4451** Posted **Dec 1, 2020, 7:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46

To be fair, that was from Labatt Breweries. The province sold it to them for $125m to be rid of the thing.

The SkyDome was sold to a firm from the US for $100 million. It was that company who sold it to Rogers years later for $25 million.

blueandgoldguy · #**4452** Posted **Dec 1, 2020, 8:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

Quite a while ago I posted that I didn't think there would ever be another 40k+ stadium built in Canada, I think that may be even more true post Covid. I doubt things wlll ever go back to the way it was, I think at one time I thought "Absence makes the heart grow fonder" and that people couldn't wait to patronize sports again. I don't feel the same way now, this has gone on too long and habits are changing. JMO though.

Elly don't you realize Toronto is going to build a 65,000 seat domed stadium and buy the Buffalo Bills/Jacksonville Jaguars and relocate them to Hogtown any day now?! Prospective owners are lined up around the block to spend $5 billion Canadian on a franchise and stadium easy peasy.

Also, based on the strong growth rates of TFC attendance, BMO Field will be expanded to 40,000 - 50,000 seats in the next 5-10 years just like Mister Corporate said a few years back.

Acajack · #**4453** Posted **Dec 1, 2020, 9:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

I think the fan interest is there, but as blueandgoldguy has pointed out, the typical major league business model has no real use anymore for the unwashed masses who sit in the nosebleed seats. The old days of putting 55,000 people into Yankee Stadium or whatever are gone. The focus appears to be mainly on the handful of big spenders...

It's ironic, but it's practically inevitable that some of the Jays diehards who sit in the 500 level for games now and will soon be actively cheering Rogers on in their efforts to get a new ballpark will end up effectively priced out of the new place, if it gets built.

I missed this post yesterday.

Yeah, and I'd agree most of these people with new stadiums in mind are looking for the sweet spot between a small enough venue so you can charge top dollar for exclusive admission, and just big enough capacity to ensure that the place has atmosphere and still feels like the big time.

A lot of the new smaller baseball stadiums in the U.S. are like that.

craner · #**4454** Posted **Dec 2, 2020, 1:20 AM**

^ I have that fear in Calgary too for Flames games when the new arena opens. If it’s similar to Edmonton’s experience (and I’m sure it will be), prices will be significantly higher in the new building than for similar located seats in the Saddledome.

jonny24 · #**4455** Posted **Dec 2, 2020, 1:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

If the league rules and structure allow it, it's likely that the T-R club would try to have a significant number of Quebec players. Perhaps they'll try to lure some away from the LNAH? (No idea how the calibre compares between the two.)

There are 40 km between the Cataractes' rink in Shawinigan and the new rink in T-R.

Are any CHL clubs that close to one another? Maybe Windsor and a club in the Detroit suburbs (Plymouth)? Too lazy to check. But that's different with the border and all.

Jamincan mentioned KW-Guelph at 25km, not quite as close as either but Hamilton to Guelph is 46 km.

Acajack · #**4456** Posted **Dec 2, 2020, 1:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonny24

Jamincan mentioned KW-Guelph at 25km, not quite as close as either but Hamilton to Guelph is 46 km.

Thanks guys.

Oh yeah, and there is no longer an OHL club in the Detroit suburbs.

thurmas · #**4457** Posted **Dec 2, 2020, 5:51 PM**

any word in Calgary of when the proposed Mcmahon Stadium renovation will ever take place? With the flames owning the stamps you think that could get done?

Corndogger · #**4458** Posted **Dec 2, 2020, 5:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas

any word in Calgary of when the proposed Mcmahon Stadium renovation will ever take place? With the flames owning the stamps you think that could get done?

Not a word and hopefully it never happens as it would be a waste of money. We need a new stadium. Other than the location, CalgaryNEXT was a great proposal. I would have made the stadium part a lot bigger but having the venues connected in the same area made a ton of sense.

DavefromSt.Vital · #**4459** Posted **Dec 2, 2020, 7:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Oh yeah, and there is no longer an OHL club in the Detroit suburbs.

Yes, the Plymouth Whalers moved a bit north to Flint to become the Flint Firebirds. Flint and Saginaw are ~60 km apart.

megadude · #**4460** Posted **Dec 2, 2020, 9:41 PM**

Barely follow the OHL but I do remember when Brampton and Mississauga were awarded teams and even then I thought those arenas are kinda close to each other. Is that going to work? I think they are like 6.5km apart as the crow flies.

It would be cool if there was a passion for junior hockey like US college ball (there's a few junior markets I guess) where you could have full arenas that were also close by like Duke and UNC, though those are not in the orbit of major pro sports towns. Maybe more apt would be like UCLA and USC, but those aren't diehard fans.