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  #5341  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2020, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Making alcohol, especially beer, ridiculously expensive has increased the problem. Even adjusted for inflation the price of beer has roughly doubled since the late 80s.
Interesting angle... from that perspective, you could almost say that there is a public safety and public health angle to Doug Ford's buck-beer promise of a few years ago. I wonder what if any difference that would make at this point if it were implemented in Manitoba, though?
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  #5342  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2020, 5:44 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Interesting angle... from that perspective, you could almost say that there is a public safety and public health angle to Doug Ford's buck-beer promise of a few years ago. I wonder what if any difference that would make at this point if it were implemented in Manitoba, though?
Um, sure. Public health and safety. That was Doug's play.

Meth is horrible, no doubt about it, but alcohol isn't far behind in sheer destructiveness. It's just something humans have much more experience in handling due to centuries of use.

If there was a new drug called 'alcohol' that started sweeping the country today, it would rightly be criminalized.

I also don't think cheap liquor will make the murder rate decline at all, given that alcohol use and violence are very related. Not gangland-style murders, but domestic abuse cases are notorious for having alcohol as a contributing factor.

Buck-a-beer was a dud. Aside from a couple of breweries cashing in on the publicity, the cost of production makes buck-a-beer not worth it.
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  #5343  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2020, 3:11 AM
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Murder in Laval tonight. Victim was "known to police".

Not sure how many that makes. A half dozen or maybe less.
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  #5344  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2020, 3:01 PM
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
Um, sure. Public health and safety. That was Doug's play.
Ha... I didn't say that's why he did it, I just said there could be a public health and safety angle to it

Obviously alcohol comes with its own baggage, but I will say this... Winnipeg's rough areas were generally less rough when booze was the vice of choice. As drugs became more popular, the murder count has increased. Is there a connection?
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  #5345  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2020, 3:09 PM
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Ha... I didn't say that's why he did it, I just said there could be a public health and safety angle to it

Obviously alcohol comes with its own baggage, but I will say this... Winnipeg's rough areas were generally less rough when booze was the vice of choice. As drugs became more popular, the murder count has increased. Is there a connection?
Is the connection alcohol, though? Or changing demographics? Or the explosion of drug trade?

Booze was the vice of choice because it was the only choice for most until the '70s and '80s. Other drugs had a much more limited distribution. I'd imagine that Winnipeg's demographics in its poorest areas have changed since that time.

Making alcohol cheaper probably won't 'cure' drug addiction IMO.
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  #5346  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2020, 3:29 PM
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There was a case in Kawartha Lakes, ON last week that started with a child abduction and ended in police shooting a father in his truck. A young child was killed (the father remains in hospital). The father seems to have had a gun. To date, no information has been released as to the source of the shot(s) that killed the child, which is making me wonder whether he was killed by a police bullet. Not sure when more info will become known.
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  #5347  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2020, 4:08 PM
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[QUOTE=esquire;9110188]For what it's worth Winnipeg hasn't been the "Murder Capital of Canada" for some time.

Regina and Saskatoon are never far behind Winnipeg in the murder count either.
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  #5348  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2020, 5:05 PM
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
Is the connection alcohol, though? Or changing demographics? Or the explosion of drug trade?

Booze was the vice of choice because it was the only choice for most until the '70s and '80s. Other drugs had a much more limited distribution. I'd imagine that Winnipeg's demographics in its poorest areas have changed since that time.

Making alcohol cheaper probably won't 'cure' drug addiction IMO.
The near North and near West Ends of Winnipeg as well as a small portion of the downtown, the areas where most of the city's violent crime occurs, have if anything witnessed a slight gentrification in recent decades.

"Booze" was definitely not the only choice in the 70s and 80s. There were plenty of other choices such as cocaine, PCP and speed, all of which were more prevalent than today. What didn't exist were cheap and toxic meth and crack as well as large numbers of people zombified by SSRIs. In the United States at least, deaths from drug overdose have doubled in the past decade. I would think that the statistics for Canada would not diverge markedly.

No one is arguing that alcohol does not result in social pathologies. It has for centuries. (There was a "gin craze" in the 17th and 18th centuries that provided the impetus for the temperance movement). All drugs do to varying degrees, even marijuana is not entirely benign. I think the point is that it's preferable for an addict to drink a 12 pack of beer rather than do meth. At current prices though so many use a cheaper alternative.

To be fair though, I'll likely be in agreement with you that drug use and distribution of any kind is only one of the roots of violent crime.

And yes, Canasian is right, Winnipeg is not the murder capital of Canada, at least at the moment, though the numbers for 2019 and 2020 so far are very troubling. Saskatoon was last year and for a few years consecutive prior to that it was Thunder Bay, and I think Regina took the "prize" at some point in the last decade. Toronto has been up near the top too in recent years, in 2018 it's homicide rate was higher than that for New York City.
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  #5349  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2020, 6:09 PM
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For what it's worth Winnipeg hasn't been the "Murder Capital of Canada" for some time.

Regina and Saskatoon are never far behind Winnipeg in the murder count either.
Regina has had 11 murders so far this year, Saskatoon has had 12 for 2020 to date, & combined are at half Winnipeg's 41 count so far for the year.

Saskatoon and Regina has combined population 3/4 Winnipeg's population to help put this into prospective.
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  #5350  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2020, 6:35 PM
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Originally Posted by SaskScraper View Post
Regina has had 11 murders so far this year, Saskatoon has had 12 for 2020 to date, & combined are at half Winnipeg's 41 count so far for the year.

Saskatoon and Regina has combined population 3/4 Winnipeg's population to help put this into prospective.
It's 65%. Current (2020) rate per 100,000:

Winnipeg 5.8
Regina 5.1
Saskatoon 4.9

Unfortunately Thunder Bay (7.4) appears like it will get that ignominious place this year.

It's been a dreadful year all round. Hopefully we can all have a "quiet" December.
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  #5351  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2020, 6:37 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
There was a case in Kawartha Lakes, ON last week that started with a child abduction
I don't think we need to pay any attention to that unless an Impending Nuclear Armageddon alarm brutally wakes everyone in Kenora, Cornwall and Windsor at 3 am. It's not serious otherwise :p
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  #5352  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2020, 6:56 PM
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Not homicide related, but drug overdoses in Regina are catastrophic this year. Well over 1,000 reported overdoses and 97 deaths due to overdose.

Drug problem 'seems to be magnified for some reason' in Regina, police chief says
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  #5353  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2020, 9:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Murder in Laval tonight. Victim was "known to police".

Not sure how many that makes. A half dozen or maybe less.
In Laval alone or in the entire MTL metro area?
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  #5354  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2020, 9:11 PM
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In Laval alone or in the entire MTL metro area?
Laval only.
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  #5355  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2020, 9:37 PM
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I see that the father in the Kawartha Lakes case has now died. Strange that there has been no indication of who shot and killed the young child.
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  #5356  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2020, 12:02 AM
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I thought it was 44 last year? I hope we dont break anothe record. Its too high of a number as it is.
Yes, you are correct. I was thinking of the old record which was beaten by last year's new record of 44.
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  #5357  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2020, 12:13 AM
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In the link I provided below you can see where the vast majority of Winnipeg's murders happen downtown, west of downtown (Spence, West End, Daniel McIntyre, Centennial) and an area north of downtown (North End, Dufferin, William White, St. John's)

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/interact...des%20reported.
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  #5358  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2020, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Murder in Laval tonight. Victim was "known to police".

Not sure how many that makes. A half dozen or maybe less.
Do the police ever talk about this publicly? Can't say I've ever heard it. 'Known to police' means that an individual's been arrested on several occasions and has bounced back out on the street because of some inability or lack of will to prosecute, does it not?

This is a thing. A big thing. When someone's been arrested 10 times, has never been incarcerated for a significant period of time and ends up murdering someone, the public needs to know.
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  #5359  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2020, 2:34 AM
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Do the police ever talk about this publicly? Can't say I've ever heard it. 'Known to police' means that an individual's been arrested on several occasions and has bounced back out on the street because of some inability or lack of will to prosecute, does it not?

This is a thing. A big thing. When someone's been arrested 10 times, has never been incarcerated for a significant period of time and ends up murdering someone, the public needs to know.
First time I’ve seen the suggestion that it means no convictions.
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  #5360  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2020, 2:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce View Post
Do the police ever talk about this publicly? Can't say I've ever heard it. 'Known to police' means that an individual's been arrested on several occasions and has bounced back out on the street because of some inability or lack of will to prosecute, does it not?

This is a thing. A big thing. When someone's been arrested 10 times, has never been incarcerated for a significant period of time and ends up murdering someone, the public needs to know.
Not sure about the link to convictions (or not).

Also don't know if it's done in other provinces but in Quebec it's routine.

"Connu des milieux policiers" = known to police.

In the case of this murder the victim has also been called a gang member in the media, and it's also been said he has links to organized crime.
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