[St. John's] The Official Project Thread

[RRoome]

I'm interested in the 190m contour road map...I'm guessing it's going to be commercial. Will it be keenly developed to unload the strain on the Kenmount area, or will it be Pippy Place part 2?

[Horsell]

The Star of the Sea condos seems to have gone cold. The excavation work appears to be complete and some of the construction trailers have been removed. Hopefully it is just a change over in contracts and we will see it rise from the ashes soon. Anticipating what the market will be in 18 to 24 months is no doubt a key factor driving activity.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Horsell

The Star of the Sea condos seems to have gone cold. The excavation work appears to be complete and some of the construction trailers have been removed. Hopefully it is just a change over in contracts and we will see it rise from the ashes soon. Anticipating what the market will be in 18 to 24 months is no doubt a key factor driving activity.

Usually you need to do 50% - 75% sales to release construction financing.

[Arrakis]

That's not encouraging to hear. Was so looking forward to seeing this project get built downtown. The site will prob end up a parking lot if nothing happens to it.

Originally Posted by Horsell

The Star of the Sea condos seems to have gone cold. The excavation work appears to be complete and some of the construction trailers have been removed. Hopefully it is just a change over in contracts and we will see it rise from the ashes soon. Anticipating what the market will be in 18 to 24 months is no doubt a key factor driving activity.

[LordNezazor]

Just saw this article about the growth of Hebron Way.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...wing-1.3117260

[Malreynolds]

Originally Posted by LordNezazor

Just saw this article about the growth of Hebron Way.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...wing-1.3117260

Rather they build a new cineplex on the west end maybe in Dannyland and close the shitty Mount Pearl Square one

[Offshore1]

Originally Posted by Malreynolds

Rather they build a new cineplex on the west end maybe in Dannyland and close the shitty Mount Pearl Square one

Couldn't agree more. I'd much rather see the Cineplex originally planned for Hebron Way be built in Glencrest/Galway. It's been 10 years or more since I've seen a movie in Mount Pearl Square.

[Copes]

Originally Posted by RRoome

I'm interested in the 190m contour road map...I'm guessing it's going to be commercial. Will it be keenly developed to unload the strain on the Kenmount area, or will it be Pippy Place part 2?

There is a massive review underway in the area, it basically covers all the green on both sides of Kenmount Road. Everything vacant between Blackmarsh and Kenmount, as well as Thorburn and Kenmount, is vacant primarily because the land is above the 190m contour line, which has previously been restricted to development. The city is looking at opening it up, and my understanding is they have engaged a consultant to review the whole area and propose a proper plan for the layout. Should be pretty significant once it is released, and we can hope (and should expect) that it will be a well planned mixed-use neighbourhood. Likely will include more commercial, mixed-residential, and perhaps even a school. Also will likely properly connect Kenmount to Thorburn, not sure if they will do anything to connect Kenmount to Blackmarsh.

[JCE]

One item on the agenda for tomorrows council meeting that looks interesting. A small 3 story office building at the corner of Duckworth and Henry Street.

[PoscStudent]

Oh wow! I like it as is, hopefully the council does too.

[PoscStudent]

The agenda also shows better renderings for the Temperance Street proposal. It actually looks quite nice with the better quality rendering.

http://www.stjohns.ca/sites/default/...015%28R%29.pdf

[Horsell]

Originally Posted by JCE

One item on the agenda for tomorrows council meeting that looks interesting. A small 3 story office building at the corner of Duckworth and Henry Street.

It’s a “cute” little building but it would have been cool to have a mini Flatiron looking building there. Obviously cost is a factor in order to get the most for your money on such a small lot. If this had been much bigger I think I would object, however as it stands it might be a nice new addition to that area.

[JCE]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

The agenda also shows better renderings for the Temperance Street proposal. It actually looks quite nice with the better quality rendering.

http://www.stjohns.ca/sites/default/...015%28R%29.pdf

I agree they are looking better each time a better quality render is released. The heritage advisory committee are asking for just that. More accurate detail involving a local architect, site plan, building material etc. They also noted that there does not seem to be a clear indication of what is proposed with the numerous design changes we have seen. Below seem to be the most recent.

[Marty_Mcfly]

a. that pseudo-flatiron looks really nice!

b. the updated render for temperance street also looks much better. Knowing that's stone, and just not....anything else...helps a lot. Now I'm pro that development.

[PoscStudent]

That building looks like a nice heritage property now, at least in the render.

[niccanning]

Could be very nice. Strange how the door placement and/or window types differ in the first two images though?!

[PoscStudent]

Originally Posted by niccanning

Could be very nice. Strange how the door placement and/or window types differ in the first two images though?!

It does. Hadn't noticed.

[Horsell]

The whole saga of this development site puzzles me. What is the objective here? This process has been going on for years, it must be at least six if not more, yet still nothing. By my count this is the fourth proposal, and perhaps the worst.
I remember the original hotel proposal (April 2009) was pretty decent (in my opinion) but because it was a few feet too high in one area it was sent back to the drawing board where it emerged very close to the original and still very fitting for the site. Then the inevitable delays and public meetings and a change in council etc etc.
So who should shoulder some blame here? There is probably enough to go around to a few groups. The area residents complained about everything they could about that original proposal, but I’m sure many of them would rather have that than what is now proposed. Council, then and now, and the City planning department can certainly shoulder their fair bit of blame.
In hindsight, had it moved forward as a hotel it might have done pretty good because the Battery has closed since then and there has been a demand for hotel space. A hotel guest might put up with a bit of noise from the work at the docks (might even find it interesting) for a few nights but I can’t see a permanent resident putting up with it forever.
The proposal previous to this one, for the high end condos, was certainly very pleasing architecturally however I suspect the $1.6 Million price tag for some of the units just didn’t fit the market.
To me, this current “phase 1” proposal is an attempt to “slap up” something cheap (and not very creative) in an attempt to cut their losses. (I would hate to see what they have spent to date on the land, design fees, lawyers etc). IF phase 1 ever goes ahead, what are the chances that phase 2 (the townhouse) will ever go ahead in the proposed style?
Stepping back for a minute, look at the general area and think about what is there, what is proposed and what is working or not working.
The first condo (the name escapes me) just down from the Sheraton, was the first kid on the block and provided high end condo living at a time when there wasn’t much of a supply. Phase 1 of the Fort William (Salt Pile) condos has been a flop with less than half occupied three years after they were finished. Phase 2 has been scrapped and a “micro” hotel proposed. In the midst of it all you have the four sisters which soon may rise from the ashes, with renovation permits having been issued.
I don’t have the answers, and God knows I don’t have the money, but surely there is a right fit for this site that will work for the developer, who is willing to invest in the neighborhood, and the surrounding residents. I wonder if they have ever sat down together to discuss what would work?
Will there be an end to this story anytime soon? Stay tuned…but don’t hold your breath.

[jthetzel]

Originally Posted by Horsell

To me, this current “phase 1” proposal is an attempt to “slap up” something cheap (and not very creative) in an attempt to cut their losses. (I would hate to see what they have spent to date on the land, design fees, lawyers etc). IF phase 1 ever goes ahead, what are the chances that phase 2 (the townhouse) will ever go ahead in the proposed style?

I share this fear. The phase 2 townhouses look quite nice, are proportional to the Battery, have appropriate density, and... likely offer a slimmer return on investment. I am not optimistic that the developer will be eager to push through phase 2 as currently presented once phase 1 is complete.

Regardless of building materials chosen for the façade of phase I, it is still a seven storey cube rising from Temperance Street that is disproportionate with the Battery. That Temperance Street was not included in the Battery Development Guideline Study was arguably an oversight, an oversight that Council has the power to correct. Perhaps I am lacking in creativity, but I have difficulty imagining standing on Water Street in 2055, looking back at the Narrows and the Battery, and seeing the flanking cubic Peninsula as telling a positive story about the ideals of development and architecture in early 21st century St. John's.

Also, this is petty, but it bothers me that the Peninsula is to be built nowhere near an actual peninsula. I assume the developer is evoking the Peninsula Hotels' landmark Peninsula Hong Kong, which actually is built on a peninsula. But the Temperance Street development's kinship with the Peninsula Hong Kong ends at its borrowed name.

[overboard]

Doesn't this site end before the two houses on the corner? Does that mean we're looking at a front door on Battery Road? It should be interesting how they pull off the garden that appears to flank the building in the second image. Maybe I'm misremembering. How did St. John's become OK with such lazy work?