Cities that have more in common than not

[Crawford]

I hear the cliche that Torontonians have kind of a "Seattle freeze" demeanor. Also hear comments from men that Toronto women are difficult to approach. Not sure if the Canadian gestalt generally resembles the PNW, or if it's more a Toronto-specific thing.

At least among the young affluent demo, I see strong similarities between Boston and DC.

Re. Philly/Detroit, I think the built form and cultural framework is too different. Philly is (for U.S. standards) ancient, tiny streets, no metro grid, parochial, extroverted, Detroit is a relatively new metro with gigantic streets, vast metro grid, introverted, slightly passive aggressive.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I hear the cliche that Torontonians have kind of a "Seattle freeze" demeanor. Also hear complaints from men that Toronto women are difficult to approach. Not sure if the Canadian gestalt generally resembles the PNW, or if it's more a Toronto-specific thing.

Yes, they're cold fish, although that is changing. I can detect a noticeable difference between the Toronto of now vs. the Toronto of the '90s, which is probably down to immigration.

As a side note, Stockholm makes Toronto seem like New Orleans.

[10023]

Originally Posted by jd3189

San Diego and Miami

I don’t really get this one, other than generally warm and sunny weather (though different climates really). But then I looked at your location. Care to elaborate?

Culturally I think they are way, way different. Especially if we are talking about Miami proper.

[Crawford]

Yeah, SD and Miami seem really different.

SD is Midwest-on-the-Pacific, military-oriented, biotech/knowledge economy, laid-back, no flatland, no humidity or hot weather, arid, WASPS, Asians and Mexicans; Miami is Caribbean meets NE Corridor, tax dodge haven, high-strung, no hills, hot, humid, wet, Cubans, Jews and Russians.

Miami is glitz and trash, SD is comfortable and mainstream.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

To amuse, and horrify, myself I compared the climate of my city to the two metros that bookend it. Turns out my city has more or less the exact same climate as Charlotte, while it gets both hotter and colder on average than Atlanta.

Greenville and Charlotte: Miserable summer climate besties!

Atlanta in the summer only feels slightly warmer than one of the big cities in the northeast corridor or Great Lakes (according to Google it's exactly the same as D.C.). It gets hot but not so hot that you can't touch the steering wheel of your car, like what happens in Texas and parts of the southwest.

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Atlanta in the summer only feels slightly warmer than one of the big cities in the northeast corridor or Great Lakes (according to Google it's exactly the same as D.C.). It gets hot but not so hot that you can't touch the steering wheel of your car, like what happens in Texas and parts of the southwest.

I also compared Greenville to Asheville, where I'm from... Greenville is considerably hotter and wetter than Asheville, and it was telling to see that December and January are rated the most uncomfortable months in Asheville, whereas January and... July... are the most uncomfortable months in Greenville. I'm used to a place that can get viciously cold if it gets in a mood, does not typically have daytime highs that reach 90F in the summer, and whose humidity -- when compared to other cities across the South -- is ideal for mummification, it's so dry. It's going to take some acclimating... To someone from Asheville, being in Greenville in the summer feels like you're wearing a fur coat in a hot tub.

For what it's worth, it does get so hot that you can't touch the steering wheel in South Carolina.

[Crawford]

I have a NYC-based friend who is spending the entire pandemic near Charleston, SC (parents have a big beach house) and he reports that the humidity and giant bugs are a new experience. There are some really weird Low County bugs, apparently.

[skysoar]

To many people their first impression of Chicago is like being in New York. Many pro athletes make this statement often. We know the reality is they are not the same, but there are many similarities. Chicago has great diversity, not on New York level of course, but exceptional for a city that is not Coastal. They both have huge downtowns, they both have numerous cultural entities that are World Class, they both have a hustle and bustle about them that is unmatched among American cities. Also they both have many old money corporations known worldwide. Another thing is you can feel their unique domination over their particular regions. Lastly i would add they both have the same old Gangster/ Corruption vibe that is undeniable. So their commonality may be more feel than scale but these two cities are big brother/little brother to many.







And i know N.Y is uncomparable when speaking of diversity

[Doady]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I'd add Chicago and Toronto as a pairing.

People often like to compare Toronto to much older, historic US cities like Chicago, Philadelphia, New York City, especially Canadians trying to hype up Toronto. But I've always argued that Toronto shouldn't be compared to those cities, because in reality Toronto is not historic, it is a much newer city built largely in the automobile era. Even the City of Toronto proper is mostly car-dependent, post-war sprawl - just cul-de-sacs and strip malls everywhere and little rail access. Even before considering the 100% sprawl of neighbhouring Mississauga, Vaughan, Markham, etc., just considering the city proper, the City of Toronto has more in common with the City of Naperville than it does with the City of Chicago. Considering the metropolitan area as a whole, Toronto is much more akin to Sunbelt cities like Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Phoenix than it is to Chicago and any northeastern US metropolitan areas.

Here is what most of the City of Toronto looks like:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7585...7i16384!8i8192

Naperville:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7540...4!8i8192?hl=en

See also: TORONTO: LOS ANGELES OF THE NORTH

The pre war, inner city of Boston:


Philadelphia:


Chicago:


Toronto:

[Crawford]

Canadian metros have much smaller footprints than American metros. They're also generally newer than American metros. Canada was really lightly populated until relatively recently.

Not sure if that means that Canadian metros are more "Sunbelt"; they just have a differing typology. Toronto doesn't strike me as "Sunbelt" even though it's indeed mostly new.

Also, not sure I'm buying those maps. Glenview, IL isn't older or urban, it's postwar sprawl. It's nothing like the old city of Toronto. Yeah, all these U.S. metros are much sprawlier and older, but the maps exaggerate the differences.

[jd3189]

Originally Posted by 10023

I don’t really get this one, other than generally warm and sunny weather (though different climates really). But then I looked at your location. Care to elaborate?

Culturally I think they are way, way different. Especially if we are talking about Miami proper.

It was more of a superficial comparison. Both are the southernmost major cities down their coast and are not far from another Latino country. Each has a waterfront skyline that is limited in height due to a nearby major airport. The cultures are different but I observed a similar laid back vibe.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Doady

Here is what most of the City of Toronto looks like:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7585...7i16384!8i8192

You can find it in Chicago too:

https://goo.gl/maps/EeNpAM6BhGiigw2f6

[pj3000]

Miami... laid back vibe... does not compute.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I have a NYC-based friend who is spending the entire pandemic near Charleston, SC (parents have a big beach house) and he reports that the humidity and giant bugs are a new experience. There are some really weird Low County bugs, apparently.

Probably wood roaches aka Palmetto bugs. They are huge and nasty.

[Crawford]

Yeah, Miami is like a coked-up stripper. Not laid back.

I find driving/parking in Miami more stressful than anywhere in the U.S. I get the feeling everyone is on the verge of a fight.

[Segun]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

while i get the humor behind the joke because chicago is certainly nowhere close to being as diverse as NYC is, and it also has a very large contingent of big 10 grads (FTR, NYC has its fair share of 'em as well, even if they're way more diluted), it's important to remember the vast majority of chicagoans did not go to a big 10 school, and the city is actually still fairly diverse, even if it's not quite at the same level as the usual suspects like NYC, LA, Miami, etc.

It also shows the North Side centric bias that's evident in the mainstream narrative. Somehow 1/3rd of Chicago gets equated with the entire story.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

For what it's worth, it does get so hot that you can't touch the steering wheel in South Carolina.

Oven mitts.

At least, that's what I was taught to do in AZ...

[Steely Dan]

^^ yeah, and even within just that 1/3 of the city that is white, big 10 grads are nowhere near a majority either.

As the alpha city of big 10 country, chicago certainly attracts a higher number of big 10 grads than anywhere else, but I've lived here for 45 years (burbs and city) and big 10 grads are nowhere close to a majority of the people I know.

I think if you're in a "big 10 circle" in chicago, its influence can seem FAR greater than it really is.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

Oven mitts.

At least, that's what I was taught to do in AZ...

I keep a white hand towel in the car and drape over steering wheel. Very effective.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Yeah, Miami is like a coked-up stripper. Not laid back.

I find driving/parking in Miami more stressful than anywhere in the U.S. I get the feeling everyone is on the verge of a fight.

I drive as little as possible in Miami. To the different beaches, and that's about it for regular car trips for me. The completely flat, straight layout with wide streets results in everyone responding to that design... hence, everyone drives like they're on the highway no matter what. Throw a ton of non US-licensed drivers, a ton of people who don't understand English traffic signs, and a ton of tourists who have no clue where they're going most of the time into the mix, and it's a pretty awful experience a lot of the time, as you describe. Thankfully, I live in one of the few rather walkable areas of Miami, and am close to a Metrorail station.