HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #13921  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 10:15 PM
IrishIllini IrishIllini is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioGuy View Post
^ Expand the blue line to accommodate 10 car trains? It’s been talked about with the red line. How about blue as well?
Does anyone know if the new stations along the red line built to load/unload 10 car trains?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13922  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 11:58 PM
Mr Downtown's Avatar
Mr Downtown Mr Downtown is offline
Urbane observer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,385
^That's been the standard for decades.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13923  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2017, 2:11 AM
bnk bnk is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: chicagoland
Posts: 12,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKDickman View Post
The blue line O'hare's problem isn't that they don't have enough train cars.
It's butting up against capacity for three reasons. Electricity, headways and train length.
They don't have enough electricty to move any more cars or trains even if they wanted to. The headways are down to 3 minutes now. I doubt that they could ever get below 2 1/2 and 2 3/4 is probably where they will end up. Which will get two more trains an hour.

CTA rail already has the capacity to give every resident of the city their typical 6 mile trip every hour. The problem is they all want to ride the same six miles of the same three rails in the same direction.

And we cannot produce or obtain more electricity why?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13924  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2017, 2:38 AM
IrishIllini IrishIllini is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
^That's been the standard for decades.
Really? Weren't the brown line stations extended for 8 cars not too long ago? Were they built out for 10?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13925  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2017, 2:39 AM
Mr Downtown's Avatar
Mr Downtown Mr Downtown is offline
Urbane observer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,385
CTA trains don't run on batteries. Electricity at 600 volts DC has to be distributed to points all along the lines. That means constructing new substations and distribution lines.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13926  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2017, 2:48 AM
bnk bnk is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: chicagoland
Posts: 12,741
And we can't do that why again? Is it only cost or will, politics, or even the dreaded shadows?

Or is there a physical reason why we cannot produce enough electricity for the said line?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13927  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2017, 3:09 AM
emathias emathias is offline
Adoptive Chicagoan
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 5,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishIllini View Post
Really? Weren't the brown line stations extended for 8 cars not too long ago? Were they built out for 10?
I believe they were built such that they could relatively easily be extended again, but that they can't berth ten car trains at present.
__________________
[SIZE="1"]I like travel and photography - check out my [URL="https://www.flickr.com/photos/ericmathiasen/"]Flickr page[/URL].
CURRENT GEAR: Nikon Z6, Nikon Z 14-30mm f4 S, Nikon Z 24-70mm f/4 S, Nikon 50mm f1.4G
STOLEN GEAR: (during riots of 5/30/2020) Nikon D750, Nikon 14-24mm F2.8G, Nikon 85mm f1.8G, Nikon 50mm f1.4D
[/SIZE]
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13928  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2017, 3:23 AM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is offline
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 10,301
Cue the transit electric traction engineer wonk with all the DC this AC that and 13,000 Mhz this and 25,000 Mhz that... god knows I don't understand most of it...
__________________
Everything new is old again

There is no goodness in him, and his power to convince people otherwise is beyond understanding
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13929  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2017, 3:56 AM
PKDickman PKDickman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 565
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnk View Post
And we can't do that why again? Is it only cost or will, politics, or even the dreaded shadows?

Or is there a physical reason why we cannot produce enough electricity for the said line?
Money, mostly.
The kind of money it takes a decade to get and the kind of money that get put off whenever you go, hat in hand, to beg for money to deal with any of the other emergencies that will happen during that decade.
Here, read this:
http://chi.streetsblog.org/wp-conten..._FINAL_002.pdf
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13930  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2017, 5:19 PM
IrishIllini IrishIllini is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,172
Not to push my version of the Clinton/Larabee subway, but I think branching it from the red line would make the most sense initially. I'd eventually like to see it extended beneath Clybourn along the North Branch. The North Branch won't truly be competitive as an office market until it's more easily accessible to people who don't live on the north side or in north shore suburbs. Allowing people to get there from Union and Ogilvie at a minimum is crucial in my opinion.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13931  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2017, 8:16 PM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 16,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
^That's been the standard for decades.
No, 8 cars is the (general) CTA standard. New stations like Morgan, Cermak-McCormick, etc all have 8-car platforms even if they don't see 8-car trains in normal service.

Oakton was kind of a special case... I believe it was value-engineered down to a 4-car platform, but was designed in such a way that it can be expanded to 8 cars later by converting a walkway leading to the north headhouse.

On the Red Line specifically, CTA has been doing some advance planning for ten-car trains. I believe Howard was the first station to open with an actual ten-car platform, the length is 520'. The new Wilson also has a 520' platform. Probably the new 95th will, as well, and any new stations built as part of RPM.

Fullerton and Belmont only have a 420' platform, but have the structure in place to extend the platforms later at minimal cost. They may choose to build this extension as part of the Belmont Flyover contract.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13932  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2017, 6:36 PM
Pioneer Pioneer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: OP
Posts: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by left of center View Post
Because its so well served, I dont see major tenants with hundreds or thousands of employees leaving the Loop any time soon. I feel that the West Loop/Fulton Market will remain more of a niche office market, with smaller tenants and fewer employees. It won't realistically be able to sustain more than that. It will compliment the Loop, rather than rival it.

The Clinton Street subway would be a huge help with transit connections. The best aspect of it is that it would create a huge underground Loop for the Blue Line, allowing the Forest Park and O'Hare branches to split into 2 separate lines (which would loop around the Congess/Dearborn/Lake/Clinton 'superloop', much like the Orange, Brown, Purple and Pink lines currently do on the elevated Loop). This will allow the CTA to balance out the two lines. Currently, the O'Hare branch has packed trains while the Forest Park branch runs a bunch of empty trains. The CTA can then focus more train service for the Northwest Side and the airport, as opposed to the underused west side line, which has duplicate service with the Green line half a mile to the north.
Your comment about the Blue Line Franklin Park trains being empty is patently incorrect. Or, maybe I just am not noticing this at the Washington Blue Line stop I cannot find a seat on the train to sit down on my way toward Forest Park in evening rush.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13933  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2017, 9:09 PM
left of center's Avatar
left of center left of center is offline
1st Ward
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Big Onion
Posts: 2,569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
Your comment about the Blue Line Franklin Park trains being empty is patently incorrect. Or, maybe I just am not noticing this at the Washington Blue Line stop I cannot find a seat on the train to sit down on my way toward Forest Park in evening rush.
I commuted from Forest Park to the Medical Center between 2002 and 2009, and I usually never had too much of an issue with finding a seat. I would board the inbound trains at 7:30 am and outbound at 5:30 pm. Compare that to the O'Hare blue during rush; forget finding a seat, try to fight for a spot to stand.

Outside of rush hour, the Forest Park trains are pretty lightly used, especially in the overnight hours. The trains literally run empty along Congress between 11 pm to 5 am. Service adjustments could be made independent of the volume on the O'Hare branch if they were 2 separate lines. It would give the CTA a lot more flexibility.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13934  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2017, 6:01 PM
JK47 JK47 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
On the Red Line specifically, CTA has been doing some advance planning for ten-car trains. I believe Howard was the first station to open with an actual ten-car platform, the length is 520'. The new Wilson also has a 520' platform. Probably the new 95th will, as well, and any new stations built as part of RPM.

Fullerton and Belmont only have a 420' platform, but have the structure in place to extend the platforms later at minimal cost. They may choose to build this extension as part of the Belmont Flyover contract.

Are the non-loop subway platforms on the 420' format (so Clybourne, Division, Chicago, Grand, Harrison, Roosevelt)?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13935  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2017, 7:54 PM
emathias emathias is offline
Adoptive Chicagoan
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 5,157
Don't they turn some Forest Park trains back West of Racine or IMD to reduce excess capacity on Forest Park line? I know they can, and I thought they actually do.

Edit: off-rush, they do turn back half of the trains West of Halsted according to the published schedule.
__________________
[SIZE="1"]I like travel and photography - check out my [URL="https://www.flickr.com/photos/ericmathiasen/"]Flickr page[/URL].
CURRENT GEAR: Nikon Z6, Nikon Z 14-30mm f4 S, Nikon Z 24-70mm f/4 S, Nikon 50mm f1.4G
STOLEN GEAR: (during riots of 5/30/2020) Nikon D750, Nikon 14-24mm F2.8G, Nikon 85mm f1.8G, Nikon 50mm f1.4D
[/SIZE]
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13936  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2017, 6:24 AM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,443
What blows my mind is that the Pink Line only runs 4 car trains. You'd think a line plowing through the heart of super dense areas like West Loop, IMD, Pilsen, and Little Village (not to mention all the way out into Cicero) would have the ridership to require bigger trains. That line quite possibly has the most slack for TOD type developments out of any in the system besides the Green Line which just runs through vacant lots for 75% of it's course.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13937  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2017, 7:04 AM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 16,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by JK47 View Post
Are the non-loop subway platforms on the 420' format (so Clybourne, Division, Chicago, Grand, Harrison, Roosevelt)?
It’s been discussed before in this thread... I can’t easily measure underground platforms in Google Maps, but I’ve heard the subway platforms are just barely long enough for ten cars, which would put them around 480’-500’. There’s no room for error, which causes problems when human motormen have to berth the trains. Some kind of assist technology would probably be needed to berth the trains quickly and reliably without trapping the folks in the last car...

As for the Pink Line, all platforms are already capable of 8 car trains. I have to imagine CTA would run longer trains in a heartbeat if they thought the demand was there. The only limitation is the size of the fleet, but with a new rail car order in process, now would be the time to order more. We’ll see what CTA does once the new 7000s get delivered.

I ride the Pink Line a decent amount, and it’s rarely crowded to the point of being uncomfortable, even at peak. Yes, it goes through dense neighborhoods, but not ones with a ton of downtown workers who commute at the peak of the peak. A lot of the commuters on the Pink Line are medical workers, students, and service workers who probably don’t work a regular 9-5. I’m worried that CTA will eventually decide to run 6-car trains, but less often, to free up more spots for the Brown and Purple Line on the Loop. I’d rather cram into a more crowded train that comes more often, if I get where I’m going sooner.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13938  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2017, 2:31 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 21,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
What blows my mind is that the Pink Line only runs 4 car trains. You'd think a line plowing through the heart of super dense areas like West Loop, IMD, Pilsen, and Little Village (not to mention all the way out into Cicero) would have the ridership to require bigger trains. That line quite possibly has the most slack for TOD type developments out of any in the system besides the Green Line which just runs through vacant lots for 75% of it's course.
That’s because it hasn’t been “discovered” yet by evil developers and their evil armies of yuppies who drink fancy cocktails
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13939  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2017, 9:18 AM
SolarWind's Avatar
SolarWind SolarWind is offline
Chicago
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,471
Van Buren Street Bridge Reconstruction

November 29, 2017



December 21, 2017

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13940  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2017, 4:54 PM
J_M_Tungsten's Avatar
J_M_Tungsten J_M_Tungsten is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,379
O wow, that’s cool. I’m so confused by that circle project, though. The staging on that project has to be intense.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:16 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.