Peachtree Arcade

[TarHeelJ]

As atlantaguy pointed out earlier, the Rodney King riots caused several national retailers to close in UA (I remember this very clearly), and started the downfall toward what it is today. It's pretty well documented that this event was the turning point in UA's popularity. People didn't feel safe there anymore and simply stopped going. It may have regained some of the earlier popularity as the riots were forgotten, but it never really recovered. I heard about large, well-attended events there over the years following (New Years Eve and others) and I guess they still occur.

But on April 30, 1992, in the wake of the Rodney King trial verdict, the area was severely damaged by rioters who attacked tourists,battled police,looted and smashed the windows of stores and restaurants. The following month saw a 40% decline in sales. A new marketing campaign which stated "The Fun in Town is Underground" was designed to help its public image, and although the area saw significant attendance during the 1996 Olympics, Underground Atlanta still ended the year $6.5 million in the red.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_Atlanta

[L41A]

Originally Posted by arjay57

It also hurt that most of the law firms bailed out of the Five Points area and moved out to Midtown and Buckhead. There used to be a lot of insurance companies and stockbrokers downtown as well.

I won't disagree with you. I was speaking from my experience which included banking. The mixture of people has certainly changed. Today, the area has far less professionals (bankers, engineers, programmers, and even lawyers which you have pointed out) than back in the late 1990s. GSU students have replaced some of the professionals because GSU has expanded so much into the area.

[scania]

[QUOTE=TarHeelJ;6517333]

Originally Posted by L41A

As atlantaguy pointed out earlier, the Rodney King riots caused several national retailers to close in UA (I remember this very clearly), and started the downfall toward what it is today. It's pretty well documented that this event was the turning point in UA's popularity. People didn't feel safe there anymore and simply stopped going. It may have regained some of the earlier popularity as the riots were forgotten, but it never really recovered. I heard about large, well-attended events there over the years following (New Years Eve and others) and I guess they still occur.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_Atlanta

Everything isn't in Wikipedia. Sometimes it can be misleading. I specifically remember in 1994 that UA had posted their biggest sales to date. The 6.9 million in the red was for that year specifically in 1996. It's like when you are in college and you have to research, you can't use just one source of information.

There were other factors that led to the demise of UA. The Olympics were in 1996 and the entire city was making changes to spruce up their areas and attract the most tourist. Besides the things that has already been mention as far as banking, lawyers moving uptown to Midtown and Buckhead, in 1995, Lenox expanded making it the shopping Mecca. All of the malls including UA saw a decline in sales. Lenox added a second level of stores and it was the new attraction that attracted locals and tourists. As far as Kenny's Alley, and the nightlife at UA, it couldn't compete with the rise of the Buckhead Village which offered three times the amount of clubs and bars that patrons could walk, skip, and hop to enjoy their evenings.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by scania

Lenox added a second level of stores and it was the new attraction that attracted locals and tourists.

i know this isn't exactly on topic, but do you or anyone know where i can find photos of that portion of lenox square before the second floor was added? from the inside? i've looked everywhere and can't find a thing. i have childhood memories in there and i'd like to take a look at what it was really like.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by L41A

I won't disagree with you. I was speaking from my experience which included banking. The mixture of people has certainly changed. Today, the area has far less professionals (bankers, engineers, programmers, and even lawyers which you have pointed out) than back in the late 1990s. GSU students have replaced some of the professionals because GSU has expanded so much into the area.

Oh, I wasn't disagreeing -- just adding to the mix of businesses that pulled out of Five Points.

A number of things hurt the area and it would be hard to pinpoint a single factor. For example, MARTA construction really did a number on Underground. Events like like Light Up Atlanta turned violent, and that added to the aura that downtown was unsafe. There wasn't a strong residential base downtown, so the departure of retail and professional offices had a particularly strong impact.

As to the Peachtree Arcade, I remember going there as a kid. It was totally marvelous to my eye! Suburban retail hadn't become dominant yet and many people still came downtown to do their shopping.

[66native]

Originally Posted by L41A

^^^^ I agree. Underground should not be torn down.

Maybe the groundlevel (Underground) of Downtown can be re-energized with the completion of the new Atlanta Falcons stadium which is proposed to be situated on the groundlevel streets. The groundlevel streets are mainly used for parking and tailgating now. The proposed MMPT also utilizes the groundlevel streets and may even help re-energize the Underground area.

Atlanta should make a concerted effort to save as much historical structures as possible especially in that part of town. Underground is some of the most interesting history of Atlanta. Atlanta's railroad and transportation past should be celebrated more. Using hindsight, either the demolished Union Station and Terminal Station could have served as railroad museums. It's numbing to me that the Terminal Station was demolished for boxy dull RBR Federal Building (was there no other place to put that building other than where Terminal Station stood). I would hate to see something similar happen to Underground.

Amen, amen, & amen, especially to your second paragraph. I like that you used the word "celebrated" which is exactly what should happen to this portion of downtown, it should be celebrated not shunned. UA will never be all that it's meant to be until the immediate neighborhood is given the attention that it deserves. Here, I agree with Uptowngirl that the "city" has not done enough to care for the "heart" of the city not just referring to UA. The city must lead the way and incentivize the right type of development and retail in this portion of downtown. Perhaps even create a historic district that would encompass the UA development, the zero mile post, south Peachtree Street, and all of south downtown.

To the prospect of simply leveling the entire UA development to the ground and starting again......absolutely NOT!!! As others have stated, there are portions of UA that are historic and original and these portions must be maintained. The owner of UA should first give plenty of thought and care to programming (something lacking in the 2nd UA, i.e. "mall") and come up with a good financial model to make that programming a realty and sustainable. Hopefully, with the right programming the development would have more of an organic and native vide and feel less contrived and mall like. I still have hope for UA and south downtown. It's the historic heart of this city.

[L41A]

I really wished TarheelJ had not posted what he posted and inserted my handle (L41A) into his post. Because when you reply to what TarheelJ posted, it appears that I posted what is TarheelJ's words (I suppose) -- I know they are not my words.

[L41A]

Scania, I agree with you that there were several factors that led to the decline of UA. I also agree with you on the Wikipedia. In fact, everything you have stated on this matter, I concur.

The way TarHeelJ posted his response by inserting my handle (L41A) into his response makes it appears I stated something that I did not when anyone respond to what he posted. I know because I was going to respond to his response and previewed how it appears. I also was going to reply to your response but your words appear as TarheelJ.

I worked in the Five Points area from the late 1980s to 1999. And specifically from 1996-1999, I distinctly remember taking clients to lunch at Lombardi's Italian Restaurant on Pryor Street, eating lunch at Mick's at Underground, eating lunch at this Carribbean restaurant at Kenny's Alley in Underground and having to wait several minutes to be seated, buying sweets from Great American Cookie Company at Underground to celebrate fellow employees' birthdays, having happy hour at an Underground Atlanta bar like Fat Tuesday, having lunch at this Thai restaurant at corner of Mitchell/Forsyth, having lunch at Sylvia's, getting shirts pressed and cleaned on Mitchell, etc etc. If Rodney King "riot" caused the fall of Underground Atlanta, it didn't happen overnight.

[atlantaguy]

Sorry folks, but I absolutely stand by my assertion that the Rodney King disturbances were the beginning of Undergrounds downfall. I worked at Georgia Pacific Center from '89 to '96, and the change was palpable. Of course the place was busy during the Olympics, everyplace was. MARTA was routinely boarding up to a million people a day during that period. I vividly remember most of the nicer stores and restaurants pulling out of Underground shortly after the riot. I also believe the exodus of major businesses to Midtown & Buckhead was accelerated due to this.

I still say that Downtown has not looked as good as it now does in a LONG time. It is greener and cleaner than I can ever remember. The center of corporate gravity has absolutely shifted north to the Peachtree Center area, which is as vibrant as it has ever been - if not more so. We now have tons of tourists in the mix, which was unheard of back then. It used to basically be nothing but conventioneers and the daytime working population.

I will say that Georgia State has made a dramatic and welcomed impact on the general Five Points area, and the various Government entities aren't going anywhere. South Downtown is obviously in transition, but I honestly believe the future is extremely bright for all of Downtown.

[trainiac]

Originally Posted by L41A

I worked in the Five Points area from the late 1980s to 1999. And specifically from 1996-1999, I distinctly remember taking clients to lunch at Lombardi's Italian Restaurant on Pryor Street, eating lunch at Mick's at Underground, eating lunch at this Carribbean restaurant at Kenny's Alley in Underground and having to wait several minutes to be seated, buying sweets from Great American Cookie Company at Underground to celebrate fellow employees' birthdays, having happy hour at an Underground Atlanta bar like Fat Tuesday, having lunch at this Thai restaurant at corner of Mitchell/Forsyth, having lunch at Sylvia's, getting shirts pressed and cleaned on Mitchell, etc etc. If Rodney King "riot" caused the fall of Underground Atlanta, it didn't happen overnight.

Yeah, I visited downtown a lot in the 90's and worked there from 2000 to 2005 and until Dante's, Reggie's and (gasp) Hooters closed Underground was definitely still happening. So that's like 15 years after the Rodney King thing, not sure you can draw any inference there. I believe with the move of Creative Loafing and some other pretty cool companies to the south Peachtree this whole part of of south downtown can come alive. Honestly, until Johnny Rockets closes I'll assume Underground is OK

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Sorry folks, but I absolutely stand by my assertion that the Rodney King disturbances were the beginning of Undergrounds downfall. I worked at Georgia Pacific Center from '89 to '96, and the change was palpable. Of course the place was busy during the Olympics, everyplace was. MARTA was routinely boarding up to a million people a day during that period. I vividly remember most of the nicer stores and restaurants pulling out of Underground shortly after the riot. I also believe the exodus of major businesses to Midtown & Buckhead was accelerated due to this.

atlantaguy, you know the city well and I could not argue that the Rodney King rioting did a lot of damage.

However, there were already problems in the Underground/Five Points area that set the stage. The huge disruption caused by MARTA construction. The violence that marred events like Light Up Atlanta. The relocation of retail from downtown to shopping centers. The decamping of banks and professional firms to Midtown and Buckhead.

While it's true that the area hung in there with places like Lombardi's and Mick's, to me there was a sense that things were sliding downhill.

It is so exciting to see downtown making such a strong comeback these days! That's my favorite part of the city and it's just starting to cook.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by L41A

I really wished TarheelJ had not posted what he posted and inserted my handle (L41A) into his post. Because when you reply to what TarheelJ posted, it appears that I posted what is TarheelJ's words (I suppose) -- I know they are not my words.

I had originally quoted you in my response, but then realized that my post didn't really respond to yours so I removed the quote but accidentally left the first part of it. I fixed it.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Sorry folks, but I absolutely stand by my assertion that the Rodney King disturbances were the beginning of Undergrounds downfall. I worked at Georgia Pacific Center from '89 to '96, and the change was palpable. Of course the place was busy during the Olympics, everyplace was. MARTA was routinely boarding up to a million people a day during that period. I vividly remember most of the nicer stores and restaurants pulling out of Underground shortly after the riot. I also believe the exodus of major businesses to Midtown & Buckhead was accelerated due to this.

I still say that Downtown has not looked as good as it now does in a LONG time. It is greener and cleaner than I can ever remember. The center of corporate gravity has absolutely shifted north to the Peachtree Center area, which is as vibrant as it has ever been - if not more so. We now have tons of tourists in the mix, which was unheard of back then. It used to basically be nothing but conventioneers and the daytime working population.

I will say that Georgia State has made a dramatic and welcomed impact on the general Five Points area, and the various Government entities aren't going anywhere. South Downtown is obviously in transition, but I honestly believe the future is extremely bright for all of Downtown.

You are exactly correct about the Rodney King riots being the catalyst leading to the decline of UA. I'm not sure why some people are arguing against it when it was a well-documented fact at the time. I clearly remember UA following those riots and how empty it was for months and months afterward - and most of the national brands (Gap, Structure, Limited, etc.) closing in the months immediately following the riots. The damage was done, and the decline was noticeable. Up until that time UA was known as a fun place to shop and eat, but afterwards people were skittish about security. It's factual information, but some people just love to argue.

Downtown is definitely on the upswing.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by arjay57

atlantaguy, you know the city well and I could not argue that the Rodney King rioting did a lot of damage.

However, there were already problems in the Underground/Five Points area that set the stage. The huge disruption caused by MARTA construction. The violence that marred events like Light Up Atlanta. The relocation of retail from downtown to shopping centers. The decamping of banks and professional firms to Midtown and Buckhead.

While it's true that the area hung in there with places like Lombardi's and Mick's, to me there was a sense that things were sliding downhill.

It is so exciting to see downtown making such a strong comeback these days! That's my favorite part of the city and it's just starting to cook.

The retail at UA was perfectly healthy prior to the riots. Sales plummeted and stores closed. Retail may not have been doing all that great downtown at the time, but it was doing great at UA in 1992 before the riots.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by scania

Everything isn't in Wikipedia. Sometimes it can be misleading. I specifically remember in 1994 that UA had posted their biggest sales to date. The 6.9 million in the red was for that year specifically in 1996. It's like when you are in college and you have to research, you can't use just one source of information.

There were other factors that led to the demise of UA. The Olympics were in 1996 and the entire city was making changes to spruce up their areas and attract the most tourist. Besides the things that has already been mention as far as banking, lawyers moving uptown to Midtown and Buckhead, in 1995, Lenox expanded making it the shopping Mecca. All of the malls including UA saw a decline in sales. Lenox added a second level of stores and it was the new attraction that attracted locals and tourists. As far as Kenny's Alley, and the nightlife at UA, it couldn't compete with the rise of the Buckhead Village which offered three times the amount of clubs and bars that patrons could walk, skip, and hop to enjoy their evenings.

Dude...my source of information is similar to atlantaguy's. I experienced that era in downtown Atlanta and saw it firsthand. I only quoted Wikipedia because it supported what I already know from experience. There isn't a lot of online information about this because it was 1992, but anyone who was around and part of downtown at the time knows about it. Do you have source to support your "biggest sales to date" statement? I have never, ever heard of that.

I'm sure the Olympics reinvigorated UA due to all of the tourists - I saw that firsthand too. But the locals stopped shopping at UA in droves after the riots. It's true, but believe what you want. I've seen some of the arguments you cause on this site and refuse to go back and forth with you.

[scania]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

Dude...my source of information is similar to atlantaguy's. I experienced that era in downtown Atlanta and saw it firsthand. I only quoted Wikipedia because it supported what I already know from experience. There isn't a lot of online information about this because it was 1992, but anyone who was around and part of downtown at the time knows about it. Do you have source to support your "biggest sales to date" statement? I have never, ever heard of that.

I'm sure the Olympics reinvigorated UA due to all of the tourists - I saw that firsthand too. But the locals stopped shopping at UA in droves after the riots. It's true, but believe what you want. I've seen some of the arguments you cause on this site and refuse to go back and forth with you.

Why are you so upset? No one is getting hostile. I used to work at UA, while I was in college during that time.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

The retail at UA was perfectly healthy prior to the riots. Sales plummeted and stores closed. Retail may not have been doing all that great downtown at the time, but it was doing great at UA in 1992 before the riots.

I'll defer to you.

We moved our offices to Midtown and Buckhead in 1991 and I didn't come to downtown on a daily basis after that.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by scania

Why are you so upset? No one is getting hostile. I used to work at UA, while I was in college during that time.

I don't think he's upset at all. He obviously remembers things as they actually were, just like I do. He's attempting to set the record straight. It would seem that several people have very selective memories from back then.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

I don't think he's upset at all. He obviously remembers things as they actually were, just like I do. He's attempting to set the record straight. It would seem that several people have very selective memories from back then.

Thank you...I'm not upset at all, but it does get irritating when someone questions things that you saw with your own eyes.