Fort McMurray Fire & Reconstruction

[Xelebes]

This thread is for the reconstruction of Fort McMurray. Any novel designs, proposals or projects are to go in the stickied thread. Quite a few of us are involved in the construction industry in Central and Northern Alberta so there will likely be a bit of information passing through here.

[Loco101]

A question: How are the provincial forest fire crews in Alberta? I can only judge by what I've seen in the media. It doesn't seems as though there are enough people fighting the fires in Fort Mac. I did hear that the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry will be sending at least 100 people to assist which is great.

We have had a number of forest fires here in Timmins, ON and I know that there will need to be ground crews for quite some time to prevent flare ups. It's much more rare in our region to hear about dwellings burning. Our provincial fire crews are outstanding I must say.

[Xelebes]

There are a number of wildfires in Alberta currently ongoing. A week or two ago, west of Stony Plain there was a grass fire that was threatening homes. I believe there was some grass fires near Calgary. Not certain about the status of the force as a whole.

[Loco101]

I was surprised about reports of other municipalities sending fire-fighters and equipment. In Ontario, it would be the province moving in if it's a forest fire.

Just had a look at the water-bombing capacity for Alberta and in my opinion it is really lacking. I'm betting there will be a review of forest fire fighting capacity after this tragic event.

[DKaz]

Why is everyone criticizing firefighting efforts from Alberta? I can tell you that British Columbia also struggles with their firefighting efforts, and I'm sure other provinces have had their share of out of control firefighting efforts. Heck, I know our wildfire troops sometimes go out of country as was the case with Australia from what I remember.

This is just a harsh reminder that in the end, nature > man.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I was surprised about reports of other municipalities sending fire-fighters and equipment. In Ontario, it would be the province moving in if it's a forest fire.

Just had a look at the water-bombing capacity for Alberta and in my opinion it is really lacking. I'm betting there will be a review of forest fire fighting capacity after this tragic event.

Difference here is that this is also an urban fire and the province does not have the resources for that. Municipalities are the ones that excel in this regard so it makes sense that they would be the ones who could step up.

Regarding the ability to fight forest fires, the Province did cut back significantly this year on their budget (a large chunk of what we do is contracted out, the Province does not own their own aircraft etc.) with the thought being more could be brought in on short notice if required. Of course the risk here is those assets are tied up elsewhere when you need them.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by lubicon

Difference here is that this is also an urban fire and the province does not have the resources for that. Municipalities are the ones that excel in this regard so it makes sense that they would be the ones who could step up.

Regarding the ability to fight forest fires, the Province did cut back significantly this year on their budget (a large chunk of what we do is contracted out, the Province does not own their own aircraft etc.) with the thought being more could be brought in on short notice if required. Of course the risk here is those assets are tied up elsewhere when you need them.

I live in Timmins, ON (population 45,000) and it looks quite a bit like Fort Mac when it comes to trees and terrain. We have had forest fires right in our city as well. Our municipal fire department normally plays a role as first responders but it is the Ministry of Natural Resources (MNR) that takes charge of actually fighting the fire once they arrive. A city fire dept. here normally doesn't have much ability to fight raging and crowning forest fires.

Here the MNR almost always sends a water-bomber and even for smaller fires. They also set up sprinklers around houses which normally saves them from burning. I can't think of any houses in our city that ever got destroyed by a forest fire. A few sheds and other small building have but never houses. And this was when we had similar conditions to what Fort Mac is experiencing right now.

I looked up Alberta's water-bombing capacity and it is quite weak considering how much forest there is there. The province doesn't even own a Bombardier 415! I am hoping that a couple of our 415s from Ontario are sent there. I am very surprised that Alberta would cut back on fire fighting. And I'm betting that the Notley government will likely change the way forest fire fighting is done and order some better water bombers.

[Calgarian]

I imagine there will be furious construction activity in Ft Mac in the coming months, lots of people in the construction industry should get involved, hopefully my firm included!

I do wonder what the long term effects of this are going to be on the community though.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

I imagine there will be furious construction activity in Ft Mac in the coming months, lots of people in the construction industry should get involved, hopefully my firm included!

I do wonder what the long term effects of this are going to be on the community though.

The challenge is where to house the folks who have to do the work. When I worked in the RMWB; the best housing year we did was 1550 approvals for new homes and I think that's how many got built. I don't think they ever peaked out above that. In current economic situation; they might be able to move above that in light of slowing house construction in Calgary/Edmonton.

[GreenSPACE]

We <3 Fort Mac Pancake Breakfast
by Edmonton Economic Development Corporation



As our Fort McMurray friends cope with tremendous loss, lets show them Edmonton’s hospitality and support by gathering for a pancake breakfast fundraiser.

Fort McMurray Relief: Pancake Breakfast
Date: Friday, May 6, 2016
Time: 7:00am – 10:00am
Location: Sir Winston Churchill Square
Food: Pancakes, sausages, coffee and juice
Cost: $5 donation to the Red Cross**

**To reduce the amount of cash being handled at the event, we’d prefer if you’d text your donation and show us a screen shot. Simply text "redcross" to 30333 and confirm a donation of $5. Your donation will go on your phone bill and dollars directly to Red Cross.

https://www.facebook.com/events/1605168766465421/

[GreenSPACE]

Should note that the pancake breakfast is FREE for any Ft. Mac folks.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I live in Timmins, ON (population 45,000) and it looks quite a bit like Fort Mac when it comes to trees and terrain. We have had forest fires right in our city as well. Our municipal fire department normally plays a role as first responders but it is the Ministry of Natural Resources (MNR) that takes charge of actually fighting the fire once they arrive. A city fire dept. here normally doesn't have much ability to fight raging and crowning forest fires.

Here the MNR almost always sends a water-bomber and even for smaller fires. They also set up sprinklers around houses which normally saves them from burning. I can't think of any houses in our city that ever got destroyed by a forest fire. A few sheds and other small building have but never houses. And this was when we had similar conditions to what Fort Mac is experiencing right now.

I looked up Alberta's water-bombing capacity and it is quite weak considering how much forest there is there. The province doesn't even own a Bombardier 415! I am hoping that a couple of our 415s from Ontario are sent there. I am very surprised that Alberta would cut back on fire fighting. And I'm betting that the Notley government will likely change the way forest fire fighting is done and order some better water bombers.

I don't think the Province owns any aerial assets whatsoever, it is all contracted out and that isn't necessarily the wrong approach. As long as there are assets to fight the fire it really doesn't matter who owns them.

It was the Notley government that cut the fire budget drastically this year. Again that really doesn't matter as obviously the Province will spend more if the situation dictates.

[Daveography]

^ Also irrelevant as the budget hasn't yet passed, and wouldn't take effect until August. Not to mention opposition parties wanted to cut spending in just about all areas themselves.

[SOSS]

All nehbouthoods need multiple escape routes in case of major incidents. I listened to one victim speak about how her neighbourhood only had one road in and out that was surrounded rounded by fire. All neighbourhoods and communities need multiple routes in case of such trajic events happening. Same thing can be said for the entire city. Fort Mac only has north and south movement. West Kelowna neighbourhood only has one exit when fire came way too close for comfort.

Back up routes should be manditory for all neighbourhoods and communities. Even if it's just a decently maintained logging road.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by SOSS

All nehbouthoods need multiple escape routes in case of major incidents. I listened to one victim speak about how her neighbourhood only had one road in and out that was surrounded rounded by fire. All neighbourhoods and communities need multiple routes in case of such trajic events happening. Same thing can be said for the entire city. Fort Mac only has north and south movement. West Kelowna neighbourhood only has one exit when fire came way too close for comfort.

Back up routes should be manditory for all neighbourhoods and communities. Even if it's just a decently maintained logging road.

Looking at Google Maps, it was the Beacon Hill neighbourhood that has only one road in and out. The city could build a road to connect the North part of the neighbourhood to Hwy 63. Maybe have Prairie Loop Blvd extended to it? But of course it would be very expensive. There is the Hangingstone River surround the rest of the area.

Although the actual risk of having your house destroyed by a forest fire is quite low there are some problems I see with Fort Mac. Most of the neighbourhoods are surrounded by bush. Most of the neighbourhoods were developed on their own and not attached to one another. It means that a fire can surround a neighbourhood on all sides. And even a house in the middle of a development has very few streets between it and the bush.

If you want to compare two cities in the boreal forest, look at Fort Mac and Timmins, ON. You'll see what I mean the layout of the cities and how Timmins has less risk in its main core and in most neighbourhoods yet has about half the population of Fort Mac.

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Looking at Google Maps, it was the Beacon Hill neighbourhood that has only one road in and out. The city could build a road to connect the North part of the neighbourhood to Hwy 63. Maybe have Prairie Loop Blvd extended to it? But of course it would be very expensive. There is the Hangingstone River surround the rest of the area.

Although the actual risk of having your house destroyed by a forest fire is quite low there are some problems I see with Fort Mac. Most of the neighbourhoods are surrounded by bush. Most of the neighbourhoods were developed on their own and not attached to one another. It means that a fire can surround a neighbourhood on all sides. And even a house in the middle of a development has very few streets between it and the bush.

If you want to compare two cities in the boreal forest, look at Fort Mac and Timmins, ON. You'll see what I mean the layout of the cities and how Timmins has less risk in its main core and in most neighbourhoods yet has about half the population of Fort Mac.

I completely agree with connecting the north part of Beacon Hill to Highway 63 via via Prairie Loop Blvd. If it was at a forestry standard road, I don't think it would be too expensive to be used in case of emergency. Timmins generally has a grid pattern street system. A system that is proven to be better for a few things including access and transit.

[Xelebes]

Estimate is 15 to 20% of the structures have been destroyed in Fort McMurray.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...tley-1.3574271

[Airboy]

Looks like it could be a while before anyone is back in Mac. Talking with an Environmental guy heading up to do surface testing, the chemicals released when the structures and vehicles were burning were extremely hazardous. It will take time for remediation enough to let civilians in. Also smoke damage to Key Infrastructure is quite high.

The Hospital, Water Treatment Plant, sewage Plant, Gas and Power all need to be up an running before anyone is allowed back.